Maybe one for Mr Bannerman to answer but what is the deal with the online BBC streams! They end their broadcast very soon after matches end. This is both live games and the Open all Mics stream!

Again yesterday there was only 1 live game with the rest on OAM's And the service was cut off a few minutes after full time.

 

What's going on the BBC's coverage? Mr Bannerman please?

Use MFR2 player for live coverage of either County or ICT

 

http://radioplayertwo.mfr.co.uk/

MFR every time.

Sorry chaps, I don't know much about the online side of things but I can confirm that Sportsound will be coming live from the Caledonian Stadium on Friday right through until 10pm with Richard Gordon, Scott Davie, John Robertson, Billy Dodds and Jim Spence and full commentary of ICT v St Johnstone.

That should be 810 medium wave and I expect online as well.

Again yesterday there was only 1 live game with the rest on OAM's And the service was cut off a few minutes after full time.

 

What's going on the BBC's coverage? Mr Bannerman please?

 

All season it has been 1 live 3 o'clock game plus OAM. Believe Richard Gordon commented on this way back at the start noting it was basically part of BBC cuts ... they cant send a full commentary team to each game any more so do the early game, OAM, plus 1 x 3 o'clock game.

 

a backward step unfortunately, but better than nothing. I too have noted that it gets cut off right at 5PM on the dot, but if you retune to the Radio Scotland link or the general sportsound link, it continues after 5. 

Again yesterday there was only 1 live game with the rest on OAM's And the service was cut off a few minutes after full time.

 

What's going on the BBC's coverage? Mr Bannerman please?

 

 I too have noted that it gets cut off right at 5PM on the dot, but if you retune to the Radio Scotland link or the general sportsound link, it continues after 5. 

 

Yeah, the internet feed is all different this season. Scotty's right BornCaley, just go back to the Radio Scotland main page and you'll get the regular feed. Took me a week or two to figure it out!

Again yesterday there was only 1 live game with the rest on OAM's And the service was cut off a few minutes after full time.

 

What's going on the BBC's coverage? Mr Bannerman please?

 

 I too have noted that it gets cut off right at 5PM on the dot, but if you retune to the Radio Scotland link or the general sportsound link, it continues after 5. 

 

Yeah, the internet feed is all different this season. Scotty's right BornCaley, just go back to the Radio Scotland main page and you'll get the regular feed. Took me a week or two to figure it out!

 Thanks guys! I have a friend in the BBC and he mentioned these cuts a few weeks ago, so i assumed it was this. Unfortunately I missed Gordon's announcement of this.

All season it has been 1 live 3 o'clock game plus OAM. Believe Richard Gordon commented on this way back at the start noting it was basically part of BBC cuts ... they cant send a full commentary team to each game any more so do the early game, OAM, plus 1 x 3 o'clock game.

 

a backward step unfortunately, but better than nothing. I too have noted that it gets cut off right at 5PM on the dot, but if you retune to the Radio Scotland link or the general sportsound link, it continues after 5. 

Until this season there had been a commentary team at all SPL games, which also meant that virtually all ICT games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday could be heard online, on air within the Highlands and Islands and sometimes across the entire Radio Scotland network. As observed, live commentaries at 3pm on Saturdays have been reduced this season to one game. That, as far as I am aware, is the only cut.

However the BBC does still offer Open All Mics as an integral part of seven hours of sport coverage on a Saturday afternoon, The Results Programme on BBC 1 Scotland, online text updates, online match reports and post match interviews, online video highlights which are also broadcast on air on Sportscene, and from BBC Alba there is one game per week shown "as live" or occasionally "honest to God" live, with ICT figuring fairly prominently there.

But I suppose there is a limit as to what can be done within the two quid odd a week licence fee paid by UK based BBC users......

Edited April 1, 201313 yr by Charles Bannerman

Charles your last line, Is this another way to gain sympathy for the BBC in order to increase the cost of licence fee ?

 

Glad my seventy fifth is coming up.        

As observed, live commentaries at 3pm on Saturdays have been reduced this season to one game. That, as far as I am aware, is the only cut.

 

But I suppose there is a limit as to what can be done within the two quid odd a week licence fee paid by UK based BBC users......

 

I know you are just backing up your employers CB, but even you have to admit that as the "only" cut, its a fairly significant one !!!

 

As for the £2 a week fee, and the not so subtle "UK based" comment ... those of us overseas cant pay the BBC for a service they dont offer to overseas listeners when they restrict their coverage to uk only. I would happily pay the BBC the same £6 a month it costs me to maintain a UK based VPN connection through a third party.

 

Dont think either the BBC or indeed the SPL have grasped the global nature of the Internet and the futility of geo-blocking coverage for what is not viewed as a "top tier" league by anyone other than the fans of it .........

I know you are just backing up your employers CB, but even you have to admit that as the "only" cut, its a fairly significant one !!!

 

As for the £2 a week fee, and the not so subtle "UK based" comment ... those of us overseas cant pay the BBC for a service they dont offer to overseas listeners when they restrict their coverage to uk only. I would happily pay the BBC the same £6 a month it costs me to maintain a UK based VPN connection through a third party.

 

Dont think either the BBC or indeed the SPL have grasped the global nature of the Internet and the futility of geo-blocking coverage for what is not viewed as a "top tier" league by anyone other than the fans of it .........

Scotty I'm just pointing out that I think the BBC's coverage of what you define as not a "top tier" league - possibly justifably given that attendances are frequently less than 5000 - remains pretty substantial across radio, TV and online.

I am aware that there is an issue about some online services being "geoblocked" but am not familiar with the reasons for that and, for instance, whether this is at the insistence of some individual clubs.

Edited April 1, 201313 yr by Charles Bannerman

Wasnt going to get dragged in ... but 'ach, what the hell ........ since I did a lot of research on the arrangements and legalities surrounding this a few years ago .....

 

Charles, lets get this out here first ..... I am not criticising those within the BBC that provide the matchday experience, whether that is Richard Gordon in the studio, the likes of yourself or Robbo at TCS or across the bridge, and even old Chic waxing lyrical about something old firm related  !!! I do want to throw things at the radio (laptop) sometimes when he speaks, but fortunately, Robbo usually gets in about him and takes him to task when he gets all "central belty" !!!!! some of the commentators at live games werent the best (dour dour Irvine for example), but it was indeed a very comprehensive or, as you put it, "substantial" service.

 

I totally understand - perhaps more than some as I have done the research - that the BBC have to work within certain parameters, dictated to them from three different directions. the first being what is in the rights arrangement they negotiated with the SPL, the second being to work within budgets set by the higher-ups at the Beeb, and finally the third, being the clubs themselves.

 

The rights arrangement negotiated with the SPL (years ago) officially allows the BBC to provide non-exclusive live audio coverage within the UK for all SPL games. It doesnt say they have to do it for all games, but that they can if they choose to and it is specific to UK only. The individual clubs also maintain a worldwide non-exclusive right to broadcast either live audio commentary or live video (provided video broadcast does not fall within a UEFA blackout period for that country).

 

For the first few years of this arrangement, the BBC were basically allowed to broadcast all games on audio and didn't bother to block them to just UK. At that point every single SPL game had a crew there as well as a reporter for Open All Mics, and quite possibly a print/freelance journo for the written stuff. I am sure you know better than I do who was in the press box ..... then some of the clubs started exercising their worldwide rights and requested that coverage be blocked outside the UK as they had their own commercial offerings on audio or video .. thats when we ex-pats started seeing the dreaded "UK Only" line underneath the links!  ICT were not one of the clubs. It started with Celtic/Rangers then by a couple of years ago only ICT, Hibs, Hearts (for away games) and I think St Johnstone were not asking for games to be blocked.

 

I said it at the time, and maintain it to this day. I will pay a fee to listen to ICT games, and have done so for the last few years .... I would have no qualms about that fee going to the BBC or even to a general SPL service, but unfortunately no-one has provided this yet so my fee goes to a VPN supplier who gives me access to a UK based server and IP. This lack of service is not a criticism of the BBC, they are still working within the restraints placed on them by the rights agreement. If I blame anyone for this, I would blame the SPL for having a very insular outlook in terms of their product. 

 

However, I do have to take issue to the BBC coverage this season ... even if I am not really entitled to do so as a non license fee payer who lives outside the UK. However, please don't misinterpret this as a criticism of yourself or others who work on the coverage, you continue to do a sterling job. This is merely my viewpoint based on this year compared to last. I have been able to listen live to maybe 3 or 4 ICT games this year, last year it was 38 ... nothing much else needs be said really ....  I know its cuts and based on the economic downturn etc, and we still have Open All Mics, but while the overall coverage may still be called "substantial", it is a lot less substantial than it used to be. 

 

As to my comment about a "top tier" league, I am sorry if that might feel like a stab in the back to some, but its the truth. It will always be a top tier league to me because Caley Thistle play in it, and I will always defend my club when people call the SPL mickey mouse, but the league itself is doing itself no favours in terms of marketing, brand awareness or maximizing potential revenue streams ! the SPL is so much more than Celtic/Rangers, especially this season, but thats about the sum total of the message that is out there as there is little or no legal way to access the content and they do little to promote it.

 

Every Saturday morning, I have the choice of watching about 5 EPL games. the early game is usually a loss leader on "free TV", then 2 or 3 of the 3PM kick-offs are also on the same free to air channels, with some of the "premium" games being available on subscription channels if you have them or want to do a PPV purchase. At other points in the week I can watch European football, South American football, and MLS football all live on TV for free. I never bother to see if there is radio or internet coverage for these as I dont need to, but I know many of the MLS games are streamed online by the league for a monthly fee that gets ploughed back into the online platform so that it keeps developing as a service and gets more people interested ..... 

 

The YouTube initiative from the SPL is good, and a step in the right direction, and I know that they are hoping to introduce other initiatives to enhance online presence, but I hope those thinking about really do think on a wider scale as to how they can promote the game to a wider audience .... if North American audiences are prepared to watch football from Honduras or El Salvador then the SPL must be in with a shout if marketed properly !!!

Scotty, your comments have, as always, been very reasonable and there's possibly not much more I can add to them given my status as a humble freelance (ie non staff) contributor to the BBC. I don't therefore know the basis of this season's changes any better than those who heard Richard announce them on Sportsound some months ago. I don't know either what the listener figures were for the various commentaries. But do remember that the Radio Scotland/ online slice of the Saturday afternoon audience was presumably being split several ways among Open All Mics and typically four or five live commentaries, either online or on air or both, some of these only going on air to local areas (Highlands, Grampian and formerly Gretnaland). As a result, the size of audiences in relation to the costs involved may have had to be looked at. I would also add that other functions such as post match interviews, online updates and online match reports, which directly or indirectly depended on having a commentary team at games, have been maintained by other means.

I would actually agree that in an era of global football the SPL, with the kind of crowds it gets, can hardly be called a "top tier" league and hence it gets relatively generous media coverage as a whole.

I am also interested that you have been able to confirm that the veto of certain individual SPL clubs is the reason for the withdrawal of certain online services outwith the UK.

Edited April 1, 201313 yr by Charles Bannerman

Well much as i like the Open All mics format I will be giving the MFR coverage a go this weekend! Never listened to it; even when i lived in Inverness! My only experience of them was using their Dat & tape machines and photocopiers to create demos & posters back in my band days!

Speaking to my Beeb friend or now ex Beeb friend it was the cuts that pretty much lead to him leaving! Now I see their brand new TV centre, my inner cynic is beginning to see what cuts were for!

All season it has been 1 live 3 o'clock game plus OAM. Believe Richard Gordon commented on this way back at the start noting it was basically part of BBC cuts ... they cant send a full commentary team to each game any more so do the early game, OAM, plus 1 x 3 o'clock game.

 

a backward step unfortunately, but better than nothing. I too have noted that it gets cut off right at 5PM on the dot, but if you retune to the Radio Scotland link or the general sportsound link, it continues after 5. 

Until this season there had been a commentary team at all SPL games, which also meant that virtually all ICT games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday could be heard online, on air within the Highlands and Islands and sometimes across the entire Radio Scotland network. As observed, live commentaries at 3pm on Saturdays have been reduced this season to one game. That, as far as I am aware, is the only cut.

However the BBC does still offer Open All Mics as an integral part of seven hours of sport coverage on a Saturday afternoon, The Results Programme on BBC 1 Scotland, online text updates, online match reports and post match interviews, online video highlights which are also broadcast on air on Sportscene, and from BBC Alba there is one game per week shown "as live" or occasionally "honest to God" live, with ICT figuring fairly prominently there.

But I suppose there is a limit as to what can be done within the two quid odd a week licence fee paid by UK based BBC users......

 

Just why are the BBC making any cuts at all?

 

They had an operating surplus of over almost £400MM last year.

 

Curious. Maybe they're going to cut the license fee or improve their newsroom?

 

Edit: Got my figures wrong.

Edited April 4, 201313 yr by PullMyFinger

Did a quick google check and in 2009/2010 there were 24,963,799 licences issued in the uk which has been rising steadily over the years. It will now be well over 25,000,000 and at two pounds a week that's £50,000,000 a week, yep 50 million pounds a week, which is 2,600,000,000 a year. Wow.

Did a quick google check and in 2009/2010 there were 24,963,799 licences issued in the uk which has been rising steadily over the years. It will now be well over 25,000,000 and at two pounds a week that's £50,000,000 a week, yep 50 million pounds a week, which is 2,600,000,000 a year. Wow.

 

Income for 2011/12 was over $5,000,000,000 with an operating surplus of £389,000,000.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/annualreport/2012/exec/managingourfinances/financialperformance/incomeandexpenditure/

but how much of that goes to BBC Scotland? and how much of that do BBC Scotland give to BBC Radio Scotland, and how much of that trickles down to regional radio? ..... just saying !!!

 

There was a BBC (regional) journalist in our group in Morocco last year and although I am sure she earns a decent sum, it didnt sound like it was all gold chalices and platinum expense cards in regional radio !!!

 

They will probably also need to squirrel away a substantial amount for the class action lawsuits that will come out of Yewtree as well, but thats a different matter .....

The BBC is paying £180M to the EPL to screen Match of the Day for the next 3 years. I can't find how much it pays the SPL, but I would hope that it was in proportion.

We all know the EPL is much better entertainment value than the SPL and I hardly ever miss MotD, but the point is that the BBC has a cultural responsibility to the whole of the UK and its license payers, it's not in the free market with ESPN and the rest, and the EPL hardly needs the money anyway.

I would also like to point out that whenever Celtic are playing on a Saturday at 3pm their game always seems to be the game chosen to be on 810mw which I think is very unfair for supporters of other clubs who couldn't give a toss about Celtic vs Dundee or even in the cup Celtic vs Stranraer and would rather listen to their own club's game instead. I'm sure the glory hunters Celtic fans don't listen these games either. Like my brother who is a glory hunter Celtic fan and I can't remember the last time he listened to a Celtic game on the radio.

but how much of that goes to BBC Scotland? and how much of that do BBC Scotland give to BBC Radio Scotland, and how much of that trickles down to regional radio? ..... just saying !!!

 

There was a BBC (regional) journalist in our group in Morocco last year and although I am sure she earns a decent sum, it didnt sound like it was all gold chalices and platinum expense cards in regional radio !!!

 

They will probably also need to squirrel away a substantial amount for the class action lawsuits that will come out of Yewtree as well, but thats a different matter .....

 

Other than Yewtree I can't see any justification for cutbacks when they are carrying an operating surplus of £8MM per week. The operating period they have surplus for predates the allegations coming into the MSM's radar anyway.

I was being flippant/sarcastic .......

 

The reason for the cutbacks is the same as any other businesses - RECESSION.

 

See this doc from late 2011: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15186116 and this article from last month: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21977108

the point is that the BBC has a cultural responsibility to the whole of the UK and its license payers,

 

Gaelic broadcasting my boy. Lot's of Gaelic broadcasting!

I was being flippant/sarcastic .......

 

The reason for the cutbacks is the same as any other businesses - RECESSION.

 

See this doc from late 2011: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15186116 and this article from last month: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21977108

 

But they have an operating surplus, so why cutbacks? No recession there, unless government is slashing broadcating budget (if there even is such a thing).