I know it went a bit pear shaped and I still suspect that it was staged but I am still up fer drafting a serious proposal:

So I need to know:

How many seats in one section of the North Stand - not the family section.

How much would one season ticket cost fer that area?

Are there any examples of such areas in British football - especially ones that have worked?

Last season - how many season tickets were sold fer the North Stand ?

What is the official capacity of the North Stand?

Would the Supporters Club formally back the idea ?

I know it went a bit pear shaped and I still suspect that it was staged but I am still up fer drafting a serious proposal:

So I need to know:

How many seats in one section of the North Stand - not the family section.

How much would one season ticket cost fer that area?

Are there any examples of such areas in British football - especially ones that have worked?

Last season - how many season tickets were sold fer the North Stand ?

What is the official capacity of the North Stand?

Would the Supporters Club formally back the idea ?

There has already been an area in the North Stand identified as a possiblity.  There are a few season ticket holders who would be affected, so they would need to be approached in the first instance. 

North Stand seats about 2,500 people.  The chairman is still hopeful that an enclosure could be build on the West side of the stadium specifically to house our singing section.  It is however a bit unrealistic to expect this to be in place for the new season, but maybe next year.

I'm sure the supporter's club would back the idea, but I do know that the Supporter's Trust are still working with the club to firstly get some answers and then to see how we take it forward.  The Supporter's Trust board are meeting on Monday night and we will then set a date for a meeting to discuss the way forward for the singing section.  Your comments would be very welcome.  The meeting will be well publicised on this site and will hopefully take place in the next few weeks.

We will hopefully have some feedback from the club very soon.

What is the exact legal wording of the Health and Safety regulations on standing at football grounds in Scotland ?

There are no regulations on standing at football grounds in Scotland. The regs say all stadia with a capacity of over ten thousand must be all seated. The SPL twisted that to their own ends.

Would appear so Alex - good item from the Killie Trust.

Standing Areas at Football Grounds 

23rd January 2007 

Steven Powell, an elected director of Supporters Direct (who also works on a part-time freelance basis for the Football Supporters' Federation, which represents supporters of clubs and national teams at all levels in both England & Wales) has been in touch with us about an issue which we feel is of importance to our members and indeed all fans of the beautiful game.Putting the wheels in motion to bring back some standing sections in our football stadiums and trying to get back some of the old atmosphere we seem to have lost in the post Taylor Report era.

Some weeks ago Portsmouth South MP Mike Hancock promoted an Early Day Motion (EDM) in the House of Commons at Westminster calling for a considered debate on the introduction of safe standing areas in England & Wales. Standing was prohibited by law in the top two divisions down there following the Hillsborough Disaster. Although there is no statutory prohibition on standing at football grounds in Scotland, the SFA and the SPL were arm-twisted into introducing an all-seated requirement on the basis that similar legislation would be introduced in Scotland to that south of the border if they did not.

The EDM has so far received the support of 89 MPs, including representatives of the Labour (45), Conservative (21), Liberal Democrats (18), Democratic Unionist (2) and Social Democratic & Labour Parties (2) and Plaid Cymru (1). It isn't often that you see MPs with as radically different views as Ann Cryer and Anne Widdecombe on the same side of the ball!

Powell and his FSF colleagues want us to ask our Trust shareholders to contact our Westminster MPs and ask them to join their colleagues south of the border in signing the EDM. The FSF (and before its formation in 2002, its two founding partners, the former Football Supporters' Association and the National Federation of Football Supporters' Clubs) have campaigned long and hard for the repeal of the regulations requiring all-seater stadia by law in England & Wales.

We are not making a representation on this issue to anyone on behalf of the Trust as this would be presumptuous on our part that our shareholders are in favour of this, however, if you do feel strongly about it we would encourage you to do what you can to get Scottish Westminster MPs to sign the EDM. Whilst it will not bring the repeal of the regulations itself, it will help to force the Westminster Government into a debate on the issue

I got a copy of the SPL ground regulations from Mike Smith.

The police were keen to point out that it was a rule rather than a law.

Rule 13.  Standing is FORBIDDEN in seated viewing areas.

Having just read through the rules again, it doesn't say that the stadium has to be all seated.  I'm sure it is written somewhere, but it is only forbidden to stand in 'seated viewing areas'!!

Would the Supporters Club formally back the idea ?

all the way....

I got a copy of the SPL ground regulations from Mike Smith.

The police were keen to point out that it was a rule rather than a law.

Rule 13.  Standing is FORBIDDEN in seated viewing areas.

Having just read through the rules again, it doesn't say that the stadium has to be all seated.  I'm sure it is written somewhere, but it is only forbidden to stand in 'seated viewing areas'!!

Interesting then that you can stand in these seated areas at half time and no one seems to mind...

And when a goal is scored - and if you support the Old Filth !!

I got a copy of the SPL ground regulations from Mike Smith.

You mean - He exists. That is the first thing that I have ever heard him credited to do - and it has to be feckin negative.  :029:

It is now possible to download season ticket application forms with nothing mentioned about the singing section

Does that mean the club have decided against one

The police were keen to point out that it was a rule rather than a law.

i spoke to some policemen after the pars game and they said that we were doing nothing wrong but they had to carry out orders by th club.

i dont think they know themselves what to do in that situation :007:

It will be an interesting summer as this debate rages on ......

It is my understanding that the chairman is keen on the idea of a singing section. We know for example that he went as far as to sound out other SPL chairmen on the idea. It would require the SPL to relax/change their own rules for this to happen and it is heartening that he is 'onside' with the fans on this issue as without that, there would be no chance whatsoever. However, it is also my understanding that others at the club are not so keen on the idea - I think we have also seen evidence of this in the ejections of fans at the trial run !!!

Interestingly, it also seems that the police are divided on the issue too !!! Some of them are quite happy with the idea and dont see it causing them any more problems than they already face whilst others are dead set against it thinking that the 'rowdiness' will be difficult to police. I hope it is the 'top' cops whose views are more inline with our chairman or this could also put the kybosh on any singing section.

as they say ..... watch this space !!!

do you know who th clubs are who don't want a singing section??

I chose my words carefully .... I did not say "dont want", I said "not so keen".

no names as I have no direct certifiable proof, only comments made to me by third parties.

There is a way around all of this.

1 Supporters have a ticket for the seated areas of the stadium

2 The west stand terracing can be used by supporters if they choose to stand and sing etc.

The above should be all legal and legit as the paying supporter will have a numbered seat as per regulations.

The supporter can stand in what was previously a perfectly safe terrace as the regulations do not say that you cannot do that.( double negative means positive :023:)

This also sorts out the problem of having a singing section in a season ticket area. This in my opinion is not a good idea as it prevents the casual supporter from joining in.

Flower - I think your idea is vaguely similar to what has already been suggested in one of the multiple threads on this matter although you have also addressed the 'numbered seat' portion of the rules which is good.

This idea is simple, easy to implement and allows both those who want to sing and those who dont to make a choice. it would also allow those who only want to sing periodically to pick and choose --- There might be a few logistical problems for big games like Celtic / Rangers where more people want to be in there than it may be designated for but I suppose you could do a 'first come first served' limit in that area and then close it off.

The one stumbling block is that this would still require the SPL to change its rules as they dont allow terracing in any form at the moment - hopefully our chairman can help them to see sense in some compromise that doesnt involve the return to terracing but permission to incorporate "safe standing areas" in stadia where the clubs wish it.

Ach the feckin Flower couldnt even get in the feckin Dochgarroch School choir.  :blah01:

Aye tis true that my voice is not the silkiest on the planet. :toothy04:

But then again I didn't have a portrait of Edward Heath in my bathroom :moon2: :toilet05: