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Not happy with Butchers quote that the fans should remember that we had 7 key players out. What is so key about all 7? Would they actually make the starting 11? Gillet was fit enough for the bench but there is no way he is going to get a game before G.Shinnie. So really the "key" players are Hayes, Cox and Doran (just). I don't think any off the others make us any stronger. Now some off the players he punted in the summer WOULD have made us stronger. An injured player didn't make Golaburk try to kick the ball instead of head it. An injured player doesn't stop Tade keep missing one on ones. An injured player would still be better than Proctor at centre half. Then again, I would be better than Proctor at centre half! Before anyone mentions Hogg, he doesn't make us any stronger either.

I thought we finally looked like a team that had got it together for the first 20+ minutes. Utd's first goal came against the run of play, but that didn't seem to phase us and the team were sticking to the game plan. The Nick Ross goal seems to getting credited as a "gift" but I disagree. Nick Ross has shown a willingness to be persistent in chasing everything. That together with split second timing is what resulted in him being in the right place to pinch the ball off the toe of the defender and stick it in the net. Anyway, whilst we stuck to our own game plan...which was being well executed...we looked the better team. It wasn't until we got drawn into playing Utd's game that the wheels started to come off. I think we missed Morrison in the middle of the park..in the same way as we used to miss having Duncan in there. Utd did to us what we normally do to other teams yesterday...punished us when hitting on the break. Mostly due to the fact that we spend more time backing off from anyone who makes a run towards the area instead of getting in the early tackle. I joked yesterday that, with the exception of Graeme Shinnie, our back line looked like it could run faster backwards than it could forwards. Foran wasn't right from the start of the game yesterday...he was slow and his reactions were definitely jaded. I was surprised he lasted as long on the park as he did. For the first time this season I came away from a game feeling more than a little concerned. I think it does most of the guys out there a disservice to suggest that we're struggling due to injuries and/or the team not having had time to gel. All Butcher had to do at half-time was get the team back out there playing the way they had for large spells of the first half (especially the first 20+ mins). If Golobart hasn't come off through injury then that change was the first mistake...he might have made a couple of errors, but a reminder to keep it simple would have stemmed that issue. Second error was taking on Shane Sutherland and sticking him out wide..the lad's a striker, play him in his natural position if you want to see the best of him. If Butcher wanted a wide player then we had Chippendale on the bench, given that the Utd defence had shown signs of weakness earlier in the game, then having a player with a bit of pace who, in his brief appearance last week, showed willingness to run at players, would have proved far more effective. In summary...the team lost their way a bit in the first half and just needed someone to get them to re-group...that never happened. Butcher lost his way in the second half and failed to rectify the issues we could all see from sitting in the stand. Yesterday was a bad day...pure and simple. We can't hide behind the "new squad and injuries" excuse any more. Everyone on the pitch yesterday is more than capable of producing a better performance over 90 minutes than we managed to do.

he just wants me to use the Thomas Tank Engine photo with his face superimposed on it !!!! (again)

Butcher has charisma and is a charming personality but he is displaying that narcisstic arrogance where he comes across as being beyond reproach at times. It is as much about setting up a system and trying to maintain it plus selection consistency and perseverence. Chopping and changing when there is injuries is acceptable - chopping and changing when an individual has an off day or an off moment is not acceptable. Said it a lot of times before but the "togetherness" ingredient is sadly lacking at the moment - if the very loyal fans are beginning to voice doubts then there must be doubts about the solidity of the dressing room as well. Butcher can change that and he can turn it around but he has to start taking the flak of the players - and now even the support - by burdening some of the blame and bringing some consistency to ICT. It has been a very reactionary feel to the management this season.

Alex, this is totally incorrect regarding La Liga. The TV deal is the subject of huge scrutiny at the moment as clubs object to Barca and RM having the right to virtually negotiate their own deals. The differential is ridiculous. Also how many teams start of the season believing they can win LA Liga........apart from Barca and RM? Malaga may do a Man City in time but not at the moment. Our league is pretty typical of most European leagues apart from...........the quality of the fare. This is far and away the most serious issue. Our product is rank rotten at every level from the national team down. Nothing to do with TV revenue as we still get more than many leagues that provide a much higher standard of product. The problems with Scottish football are far deeper than TV revenue and the OF. These are easy targets punted about by lazy journalists who don't want to seek out the truth just in case they offend friends in high places.

I take it you've forgotten that ICT went down by a single goal when they were relegated?

Why would we experiment?

In many ways, it's not that different to most leagues now. La Liga has to be the most uncompetitive. Other leagues, such as the EPL (Man City's takeover is a bolt from the blue), Holland, Serie A, Belgium, Portugal etc etc are being dominated by 2 or 3 clubs more and more. It does need the other 10 clubs to take a stand and demand a more equitable share. If the OF won't accept it, breakaway then. No chance of it unfortunately.

Great summary of the game. We were probably unlucky to go in a goal down at half time, but by the end of the game it felt like we had been well beaten. What concerns me about the second half performance yesterday is the fact that we really didn't look like a team. Obviously we've been very unlucky with injuries, but that in itself doesn't explain why no-one, except perhaps Graeme Shinnie, was prepared to start trying to drive the team forward. The player with most responsibility for doing that would be Foran, I suppose, so I was a bit surprised when he was substituted so early even though he hadn't had a great game. If he was injured, fair enough; but if he was taken off that early because of tiredness or because Butcher felt he wasn't contributing enough, then it is a worry: you would expect your team captain to be on the park for almost all of almost every game. I also feel that Tokely, who as the club's most senior professional also has some responsibility to motivate and organise the team on the park, has looked very subdued all season. Of the rest, Davis looked composed but rather lethargic in the second half, Andrew Shinnie worked hard but looked pretty lightweight and too prone to be knocked off the ball and Nick Ross seemed to be on the margins for long spells. Tansey was arguably our best midfielder, but again didn't really impose himself on the game. Tade was perhaps our most dangerous player, and certainly no-one could accuse him of not trying, but yesterday confirmed again that he's not really a striker. As for Golobart, I contrived to be at the pie stall when the second Utd goal went in, so I didn't see his error, but the fact that Butcher hooked him at half time doesn't bode terribly well for his future. I've not seen any interviews with Butcher yet, but it looked at the end of the game as if he was pretty discouraged: normally he's very conscientious about acknowledging the supporters, and yesterday the team was applauded off the park by most despite the result and the second half performance, yet the manager simply stormed off up the tunnel. I expect nothing from Celtic Park next week, but the St Mirren game is starting to look quite significant. Every side in the league looks capable of picking up points, and at the moment I couldn't convincingly argue why we are less likely to go down than any other team. This absolutely isn't doom-mongering: it's simply an acknowledgement of the fact that we are in a very difficult situation in a very competitive league. If Terry Butcher can get us out of relegation danger with games to spare this season, then it will speak volumes for his management.

That's exactly how i feel about Supporters' Trusts. I long ago gave up worrying about the opinions of those who do no more than sit at home and mouth off via a keyboard. If my willingness to step up to the plate and do more than mouth off sets me apart from those people and brings me in for a bit of criticism...so be it, I would rather be criticised for doing something than criticised for doing nothing at all. People are entitled to their opinion, but I rest easy knowing that the Supporters Trust are at least trying, instead of expecting everyone else to do the work for them.

ICT had a plan (the road to premier league football) and a clear vision of where we wanted to be. Others have wallowed in their own mediocrity. Maybe they tried many years ago but we were new, gathered momentum and reached heights we only hoped for. Main ingredient In our success IMHO was getting thebest years of Steve Paterson's managerial career.

The good thing about fifa us all the terry sackers can just select there OF teams....