Scotty

I would agree with you that the art of the substitution is definitely done on a game by game basis but in general, if you make them early its because something isnt working or a player has been injured and if you make them late its to rest weary legs or waste a bit of time. Its that bit in the middle of the second half from about 55 to 70 or even 75 that can change a close game and I dont think we do that effectively.

Go to fixture list page and click on the relevant game ...... stats are there ! [attach=1] DSM00.gif_thumb

not sure why he does it so late but I think most supporters see subs in generally the same terms .... 00-60 mins is usually because of an injury, because someone is having a 'mare, or because things have gone pear-shaped. 60-70 mins is hoping for someone to perhaps change the game. 70-90 mins is more for timewasting as no-one can really get in, get settled and turn the game in that time. Interesting to go back over the games he has been in charge for ..... 79 minutes seems to be a favourite (7 of 29 substitutions made in that minute) and only two 'tactical' substitutions made before the 70th minute in 10 games :symbol_question: 4-1 L V Aberdeen (CIS): 3 @ 79mins 0-4 W V Gretna: 1 @ 60, 1 @ 72, 1 @ 79 [60th min sub due to injury] 1-2 L V Aberdeen (SPL): 1 @ 67, 1 @ 81, 1 @85 [67th min sub due to injury] 2-2 D V Kilmarnock: 1 @ 63, 1 @ 80, 1 @ 86 4-2 W V Falkirk: 1 @ 75, 2 @ 87 3-0 W V Gretna: 1 @ 57, 1 @ 72, 1 @ 79 [57th min sub due to injury] 2-1 W V Hearts: 1 @ 85, 1 @ 86 5-0 L V Celtic: 1 @ 77, 1 @ 85, 1 @ 86 1-0 L V Hibernian: 1 @ 53, 1 @ 75, 1 @ 84 3-1 W V Arbroath: 2 @ 79, 1 @ 85

I am sure they would be up for that :003:

interesting to note that the North Stand was to be a permanent building with facilities (ie. catering etc) below it and several turnstiles and that the South Stand (potentially - as shown in the last official picture) was an exact copy. The west stand was to be a full length low level terrace or seated area.

Yes, I remember that ...... Here's a copy of official photos !!! [attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3] [attach=4] [attach=5] [attach=6] and one I got sent from a site poster at the time ..... who edited Gordon Gillespie's classic stadium picture to show the new stand [attach=7] Dcp00359.jpg_thumb

Here's the latest one ...... Motherwell. Again, Angela has taken comments on board and tried to add more pictures and tried to make sure there are no empty seats. If you have comments, please keep them constructive and I am sure she will adjust things for the next poster :004: [attach=1] DSM00.gif_thumb poster a4.pdf

20 moderators or not, we are officially classed as a fanzine by the powers that be. It may only be semantics to allow us to display things that other unofficial sites cannot or to get a deal on the cost of displaying copyrighted material such as the fixture lists but thats how we are designated ...... IF site users here want to make the site more like a 'real' fanzine then we are certainly willing to look at that in a few different ways. We can easily create a separate fanzine subdomain (a sort of mini-site) or we can accept submissions for the main site using the submit article feature .... but it would need a few dedicated people to help run this part of it and keep it full of material. The closest ICT ever came to an online fanzine was probably Chris' site (remember the County Air spoof !!!) and we are happy to work with him or anyone else if thats what the users want .......

Bronson, you dont say much these days, but when you do you get it spot on !!!! I just wish the club would listen to you and others who have the experience in this area.

interesting to note that as far as the press association and football dataco are concerned this site is officially classed as a "fanzine" which enables us to pay a reduced rate to display our fixture list !

I wont be around during the game so am starting this thread early. Hopefully one of the mods can add the relevant info nearer kick-off....... [li]Discuss the game in this very thread right here :004:[/li] [li]Get to the chatroom HERE[/li] [li]See the subs / bookings / report - after the game starts - HERE.[/li] [li]At the game ? - Dont forget to vote in the POLL after the game has ended. HERE. [/li] [li]See the stats etc after the game has ended by choosing today's game from HERE.[/li]

darn, was just getting ready to change your username to Claude Bawls

and he was pretty p***** off about it at the time.

Based on his first few games, I think he could be a good player for us but the injury may have happened at the wrong time for him to get a contract extension as brew wont hav been able to see him in action either in training or in matches.

They have not come through, they are sitting on the bench !!! Of the current crop of U21s only Rory and Zander have actually started for ICT in a competitive match. In Rory's case, he was probably over-used as discussed at length in the last few months, and in Zander's case, his 2 starting appearances have been at the end of each of the last two seasons in "meaningless" games. He has also come off the bench 4 times. Dean McDonald is next, coming off the bench 6 times this season but the rest havent got a single minute on the park between them ! R McAllister - ?? appearances on the bench, 11 starts, 33 sub appearances (over 3 seasons) Z. Sutherland - ?? appearances on the bench, 2 starts, 4 sub appearances (over 3 seasons). doing well on loan !!! D. McDonald - 13 appearances on the bench, no starts, 6 sub appearances I. Vigurs - 7 appearances on the bench, no starts, no sub appearances G. Kerr - 5 appearances on the bench, no starts, no sub appearances A. McDonald - 3 appearances on the bench, no starts, no sub appearances G. Wood - 2 appearances on the bench last season, no starts, no sub appearances - on loan and banging them in (before injury) J. Duff - 2 appearances on the bench, no starts, no sub appearances By all means put something in place to encourage teams to have U21s on the bench but 6 players with 32 games as a sub and not a single minute actually on the park between them is IMHO doing more harm than not having them there ... they could be playing in the reserves or getting competitive experience on loan rather than nappy rash from sitting on the bech so long !

I think you could be right IHE ! ..... and 30 years from now when some old diehard chats to his grandson at Raydale park in the Scottish 2nd division, and says "I remember when we were in the SPL ....." the grandson is likely to look at him like he's got Alzheimers !

Two questions .... How is it working ? How have ICT benefited from this rule ? Yes, it was raised from 5 subs (one of which did NOT have to be a goalkeeper) to 7 subs. When it was raised to 7 you had to have 3 x U21s and 1 x GK reducing your "actual" subs to 3 ...... so you could argue that some teams ARE worse off. While my personal preference would be to scrap the rule altogether perhaps there is a happy medium where clubs can name 7 subs (including a GK or not) and where any two of them (inc GK) could be U21 ? That would still allow clubs 5 "real" subs as they had before and preserve a couple of spots on the bench for U21s ?

I would like to see it scrapped altogether. Right now you can have seven subs, 1 of which must be a goalie and three of which must be outfield players at/under the age of 21 (GK doesnt count) so you really only have 3 outfield subs unless you are confident that the youngsters can actually do the job. A manager should be able to name 7 subs, include a goalie or not, and not have to have 3 x U21s. The U21s may be able to enjoy the matchday atmosphere from being on the bench but if they are sitting there and not playing they are not getting any actual match experience. If these rising stars could play in the reserves, or go out on loan to other teams instead of being bench fillers they may gain not only skill but confidence. The rule also hampers the manager's ability to refine his tactics based on what happens in the game. If you could name 2 defenders, 2 midfielders, 2 attackers and a GK then you have way more options with defensive/attacking minded players.

I will give him a B+ so far. I did not agree with his appointment, based on his managerial record at Tannadice, but he has come in and got us playing better football. The team seem to have more belief in themselves and this is not shown any better than by looking at Denzil. Denzil is a "confidence" player and as we saw in his (Denzil's) first spell at the club as well as this one, when he isnt confident, the goals dry up . Brewster arrived on the 27th August, and Denzil bagged his first goal of this season the next day. In 7 starts (+ 2 as sub) since Brewster arrived he has scored 7 goals which is 4 more than he did in his 22 games last season and only 4 less than his 11 from 34 games in 05/06 ........ As for his signings, we have had three. I would say 1 good one (Proctor), 1 where the jury is still out (McGuire), and 1 bad one (Zibi). Of these, only Proctor is a permanent deal so we cant really fault him too much for grabbing the other two on loan for positions where we know we are struggling given that he only had 3 days to do it and there wasnt a lot out there. Zibi, for all his faults is still an SPL keeper and one who did reasonably well at Gretna on loan last season. I dont think he is the answer, but he may have seemed like the best available keeper during that late stage of the window. As for tactics, I too would question the late subs and giving Zibi a start (after his howler in the reserves) but at the end of the day he got in there because Fraser had made two howlers in the previous game so its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont. The next few months will probably firm up a lot of people's minds because of three things .... 1. What kind of football are we playing? Are we playing well even when we lose or are we demoralised or playing badly? How is our fitness? How does morale in the squad look? 2. What signings does he make in the transfer window? Will he get a permanent keeper and a central defender or two? His best signing for Dundee Utd arrived after he was sacked and we would all love him to pull off a signing of that quality for ICT. 3. What will he do with youth? Managers always complain that the U21 rule hampers them. Zander and Garry Wood are both players who could be put on the bench in that category and actually come on and do a decent job for us. If he lets either of them go, some people will question this.

Very true .... but three years in Div 3, two years in Div 2, five years in Div 1 and now four years in the SPL is steady progress ... perhaps slow was the wrong word to use, and it should just have been "steady", but our progress was slow when compared to that of Livi or Gretna as opposed to other teams who have been around for decades and done nothing .... but I think you agree that we have certainly not done it the Gretna or Livi way. We have also been lucky with our directors - Livi and Gretna have both had/have sugar daddies who oversaw pretty much their whole rise out of their own pockets whereas we have had several chairmen over our rise and each has brought something to the table. Whether it be the hard work of the merger and new stadium by the original board, the "rescue package" of the trust and sound business practices that Sutherland and Tullochs brought in both his first and second spells, the quiet but effective style of Ken Mackie in our effort to win the vote for promotion or the current chairman and his bold plans for the club. We might disagree with what they do from time to time - such as recently - but for the most part we have been happy with their actions and the methodical and sensible approach they have taken.

just goes to show that the old adage is true .... Dogs have owners, cats have "staff" :015: :015:

A couple of interesting ties here ..... Albion Rovers v East Stirlingshire Forfar Athletic or Dumbarton v Berwick Rangers Culter v Huntly Brechin City v East Fife Stranraer v Stirling Albion Clyde v Montrose or Pollok Cove Rangers v Edinburgh University Partick Thistle v Ayr United Threave Rovers v Raith Rovers Greenock Morton v Buckie Thistle Linlithgow Rose v Dalbeattie Star Arbroath v Cowdenbeath Ross County v Whitehill Welfare Livingston v Alloa Athletic Peterhead v Queen of the South Airdrie United v Queen's Park matches take place on Saturday, 24 November, 2007

Whatever you think of Gretna, they won their various divisions and have ended up in the SPL. They are there on merit because no-one else could stop them (not even themselves towards the end of the season). However, they also have a big vote of thanks to give to ICT because without our fights to be allowed to groundshare and for the seating requirements to be reduced they would have been in a situation like Falkirk were a couple of times ... Division One winners without a prize ! It is true to say that like Livi before them, they splashed the cash to get there and that is, and will continue to, come back to bite them just as it did Livi. It looks like the Sugar Daddy has gone sour on the fairytale, at least a bit, and without his cash, and a decent manager, they are heading straight back down. I would predict it unlikely they will get back up again anytime soon. Its a difficult division as just about every other former SPL club who has been relegated have found out !!! Do I hate them? no i dont, fair play to them and to their supporters, and to any other club and set of supporters that win the first division. Will I feel sorry for them? thats also a no. They took the Livi route to success and like any other resource, money is finite. when it runs out you have to rely on whats already in the cupboards and theirs are bare ! The ICT route is the one to take .... slow and steady progress to a point where you win it (Div 1) on absolute merit without accusations of buying your way into the SPL. It took us a while to get there, and a while to find our feet once we did, but we are all the stronger for it and will hopefully be in it for a while to come !

Dochfour Drive, 1st XV at High School before playing for Highland ? .... If I am correct, you were in the 1st XV when I was playing in 1st, 2nd and 3rd year ....... (although you may have left before my 3rd year)

You mean the "ECO", or perhaps the "echo" stadium :015: :015: