Sorted

Very, very poor. As said previously, Ryan Esson you're a star. And Butcher didn't sign you. He had that little faith in your ability he went and spent money on another keeper good enough to get a game in many other SPL teams. Wake up and smell the coffee people but, whatever you choose to do, please keep your shoes on as it's degrading.

Spot on cc but tell the muppets upstairs as they hold the purse strings which are seemingly getting tighter and tighter Once again the blame is deflected from the choices of TB and MM to the 'muppets' (assume you are trying to blame the board?). Why? Simply, Butcher is old school. He reversed all the fitness progress made under Brewster, abolished double sessions (instead preferring to leave his well played employees free to play golf or snooker, or spent the afternoon in the bookies), almost stopped the JJB fitness works and took the club backwards as far as I'm concerned. This is entirely his choice and nothing to do with money. On being questioned about it he said if he can't trust his players to do their own gym work then he had a problem. Out of interest, name me any other professional sport where coaches adopt this attitude? STOP TRYING TO DEFLECT BLAME TO OTHERS.

Flights booked, tickets in hand ....... Madchester 29th June here I come. Caught them once first time round and seen IB several times. Singing is what it is and what it always was. But the music is incredible. Sorted!

Seen much more than me then this season. Going on Saturday so fingers crossed. For the record, I'm much happier with the sensible approach and reason shown by most in the current situation. Just slightly confused as to why it is shown to some and not others. I was at the Hamilton game before Brewster got sacked and thought we had enough chances to win ten games. Looked secure at the back and Cerny was magnificent in goals. Granty's challenge was unecessary. Onwards and upwards.......

Appreciate that CD. People have different perspectives on issues, none of which can be measured. All I am pointing out is that if you concentrate only on what is 'measurable' then the situation at present is on a par, if not worse than January 2009. For the record, I tend to agree with your reasoning but reach a different end conclusion. I'm as worried now as I was then.

Whilst there are some similarities, it is different by a country mile. Brewster wasn't fit enough to play for us but found himself playing again immediately when he was shown the door. Brewster had us stranded at the bottom of the league. Terry and Mo have the makings of a great team here, this is a building season and there's no way we'll be in a relegation fight come February. You can quote me on that. Have to correct the totally inaccurate statements you make PMF. Brewster was sacked (after an orchestrated campaign to have him removed) on 10th Jan 2009. At that point we were bottom by one point from Falkirk. As I recall we were bottom for considerably less time than we have been this period at at no point - 'stranded at the bottom of the league'. As for the playing element, he took part in 10 games a division below the SPL. Hardly breathtaking. Different perspective eh?

Good man CD, glad someone found it. Now, the $64 million dollar question - When do we press it? Interesting to see if it's the same rules of engagement for this boss as it has been for his predecessor. Shoes off by now surely? Articles in the paper from the Trust? Public meetings anyone? No. Won't be a witch hunt this time. And the difference is? Because as far as this poster can see, there is none............... Maybe people have realised that the way we treated Brewster was appalling and that no matter what, Butcher deserves to be treated with more respect. Either that or they are just **** scared of him!

At the present time under the great sage Levein even in a group containing Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Faroes and Jersey I doubt whether every game would be 'winable'. I hear Levein now - "St Helier is 'a difficult place to go to' (technically not true as Fly Be go direct to Jersey from Inverness!) and 'there is no such thing as an easy game in international football these days' (also untrue as shown by the results of those that can play football)" "Whatever team I play it will be about what we can do not the opposition (I sense a 4-6-0 coming....)"

I once saw a bar of soap at Celtic Park

Enjoyed my trip to Alicante. Beautiful football, beautiful women, fantastic bars and the best support there is. Pity that those in charge of our game don't seem to have a clue.......................

Struggling with this one Gringo. TB is Foran's number one fan. He brought him to the club. He retained him at the club (highest paid player if rumours are correct) and he made him captain. Surely if the responsibility for the recent demise sits with Foran the ultimately TB is responsible?

Interesting point. Are you basing this on history, his media friendly persona or historical position as a playing legend? Never been convinced about one and accept two as correct. At this point I understand I am supposed to shout 'I BELIEVE' and I will be subjected to adulation, the world will be a happy place and we won't get relegated. There are none so blind as those that will not see. Or something like that. Who said fanatical fundamentalism was restricted to Islamic dictatorships? Some of the clearest examples post on CTO! The interesting point is that Sorted interpreted the quote from PIG as saying there is no manager out there who is better than Butcher. I interpret it more as 'this club, due to its geographical location and financial limitations, would be unable to attract a better manager. Thanks for clarifying my interpretation Alex. For the record, I share the exact same view as you but come to a different conclusion. Also interested in the word 'better' and how this is measured. If you use the only tools that are readily available i.e. statistics, neither TB or MM would come anywhere near the 'better' category. If you have another tool for performance measurement of a football management team I would be keen to understand it.

You assume two points. Firstly, it is a positive to award a management team, at the bottom of their league, a new contract. Secondly, it is a shared view that our management team are 'good'. Those who disagree may not conform with what is expected here but they are entitled to there view. Just because they don't share your opinion doesn't make theirs necessarily negative and yours positive. It can be argued equally (much more realistically some might say) that your view is nonsensical and theirs pragmatic.

Interesting point. Are you basing this on history, his media friendly persona or historical position as a playing legend? Never been convinced about one and accept two as correct. At this point I understand I am supposed to shout 'I BELIEVE' and I will be subjected to adulation, the world will be a happy place and we won't get relegated. There are none so blind as those that will not see. Or something like that. Who said fanatical fundamentalism was restricted to Islamic dictatorships? Some of the clearest examples post on CTO!

Wind up? I thought it was the most sensible series of posts the' ye olde sage' has written for months. Now absolutely gutted to find out he was just taking the ****. Or am I?

I agree with HD. I have always accepted the fact the Dundee is the home of Scottish literaturelylikewordyness skills! Cheers Charles. I now accept that Charlie isn't always wrong..........

I get disheartened by those that are disheartened. Your disheartenment (okay, I know it's not a word by I've been watching the sage that is Charlie Nicholas on SSN!) allows the dangerous people like Davie, Nicky and Eddie to do what they want when the want without any checks or balances. Don't let your disheartenment get you down. Disheartenment leads to disenheartenmeantexploitation by the disenheartenmentexploiters!! Kepp the ___________ flag flying!

From what you say, I think it was a cat that can't spell.........

Apparently they now have to had out song sheets as most of 'conference' don't know the words

Tragedy ......

Hard to take. From both radio commentary and Sky, seems very harsh. Hope guys dig in and don't get a hiding!

They were very instrumental in making the rules so I'm sure they, and their west end cousins, will manage to change them. We can blame the OF for many things but not this. Interfering politicians with perceived populist agendas are solely responsible for the atmosphere and facilities in which we now watch our game. Point scoring sought from tragedy when, for once, that old adage 'lessons to be learned' was very appropriate. Instead we had over reaction and legislative pressure. Don't get me wrong, I like sitting at games (age and mobility ) and won't change my arrangements. That said isn't it obvious to all that there is a significant opportunity to give lots of customers (and perhaps some that are no longer customers) what they want? Not quite true Sorted. Yes the politicians went a wee bit overboard in their interpretation of the recommendations of the enquiries. The politicians made legislation that 'any sporting stadium with a crowd capacity of over ten thousand must be all seated'. The football associations in UK gave all their registered clubs who met that criterea three years to comply with it. The SPL, on the other hand, made their own interpretation of the law and stated that 'all member clubs of the SPL must have a ten thousand seat capacity and that all seats must be numbered and tickets allocated to a seat number. There is no actual legislation that states that all persons using a stadium must sit down. That is only enforced in the SPL. It is not enforced in EPL or any other league. Listening to Radio Scotland before kick off with Traynor and company talking about the situation. At no point in the discussion did it it mention any responsibilty on the OF for the ruling. They referred to the SFA implementation of the Taylor Report which was in line with that of the EFA (refuse to call it the FA as it's not!). Interesting, on the Celtic case they mention that their CE was worried about his own position as the Safety Officer who is responsible for the certificate issued by the local authority. He is clear that his club is in breach and he is responsible. They also commented on how the situation in England is exactly the same and specifically mentioned Anfield. Throughout the match, announcements are made requesting people to sit down predominately within the Kop. These are ignored as they are at Celtic. Ultimately, I maintain that the current situation is politically driven and that the appropriate FAs didn't have the ability, desire or gumption to argue their case properly.

They were very instrumental in making the rules so I'm sure they, and their west end cousins, will manage to change them. We can blame the OF for many things but not this. Interfering politicians with perceived populist agendas are solely responsible for the atmosphere and facilities in which we now watch our game. Point scoring sought from tragedy when, for once, that old adage 'lessons to be learned' was very appropriate. Instead we had over reaction and legislative pressure. Don't get me wrong, I like sitting at games (age and mobility ) and won't change my arrangements. That said isn't it obvious to all that there is a significant opportunity to give lots of customers (and perhaps some that are no longer customers) what they want?

Can someone explain to me what the problem is as I don't see one? The EU rules ensure that any member state or part of cannot discriminate against any other sovereign member state. Within an member state, it is acceptable to have devolved regions/states (in our case a nation) that operates independently within the confines of the devolved settlement. Using this settlement the Scottish Government what to ensure that education is funded correctly and that, irrespective of your financial background you are able to pursue to the maximum of your ability with fees being removed as a barrier. This is the case for ever child who has undertaken their education (barriers in place to avoid short term moves) in the Scottish system irrespective of creed, colour or nationality. In accordance with EU rules, the same criteria are applied to all who wish to apply from any sovereign state. The issue with the other component parts of the (dis)United Kingdom is that the do not wish to fund tuition fees for anyone and, accordingly, the apply these rules across the board. Choice being exercised by those that govern those areas. Why should they be entitled to benefit from devolved funding, allocated and prioritised by the devolved region?

OTJ is a huge worry to me and none of it is due to ability. Why were we able to sign him? Was it the lure of living in Europe's domino capitol (seems to be the only league booming at the moment) or the free passes to The Den? Or was it the huge salary that we are (Romanian mercenaries apart) well known for paying? Perhaps we were the only club willing to give him a contract? OTJ has played, including substitute appearances, an average of 14 times a season since the end of 2004. Not his fault or a criticism merely fact. Suggest that we will have a significant part of our playing budget sitting in the stand for most of his time here. Fine if he is on a 'pay as you play deal' but as I understand it that is not the case and he rejected similar offers from bigger clubs. Hence the reason he cam to the Sneck!