CaleyD

Sat on a seed and waited for the tree to grow.

......is Ian Black. Clicky Clicky Player of the Month is calculated on number of votes, and not the value of those votes. The full breakdown for the month was as follows........ 67 Black 60 Duff 44 Cowie 39 Barrowman 39 Tokely 38 Imrie 35 Rooney 32 McBain 24 Munro 16 Vigurs 14 Fraser 9 Duncan 9 Hastings 9 Wilson 8 McGuire 6 Esson 6 Wood 1 Djebi-Zadi

Some of it yes, but things like the Tullochs annual accounts are up on their website and the Highland Council publish things like the agendas and outcomes from the Resource Committee meetings on the web which is where i got the details about the transfer of the loan from the Trust to ICT Properties (2004) etc....which is what sent my spidey senses tingling and provoked the further investigation. You could argue that the moment we agreed to transferring the property/lease to the Trust we effectively lost control of the Stadium, so where it ends up from there doesn't really matter. However, as I understood it, the Trust had certain "responsibilities" in so much as it's Trust status was granted on the grounds that it was there to serve the sporting community (or something to that effect). They may still "own" the lease, but if that's been sold (sub-let) on to someone else in order to clear the debt that was sitting there, then it's basically an asset which is worthless as it's value has already been realised. If there's still a debt there then it's not being serviced by anyone or accounts would need to exist and it couldn't hold dormant status...and if that's the case then it's no longer the bank the money is owed too and I can't think of too many people with a couple of million that could afford to have a couple of million sitting as a debt within a dormant company without it being serviced. I've been digging and poking around on this for a good while now, and it was only really the fact that 50% of Caledonian Thistle Properties appeared "syphoned off" in the latest set of club accounts that led me to asking the question on here to see if anyone could fill in some of the gaps and question marks.

I only ask because I've been trying to solve the riddle that is Stadium Ownership for some time now. I was under the belief that the ownership of the stadium had passed to the new Trust which was set up with charitable status to reduce the interest/tax etc on the debt and better facilitate it's repayment via rent received from the club, but that doesn't seem to fit with what appears to be going on in the background. For a start, the Trust that was set up is now a Dormant Company which means that if it still owns the stadium then it can't be receiving anything by way of am ongoing market rent....yet the club is still paying rent. There's certain documents online with the Highland Council saying that loans that had originally been set up in the name of the Trust had been transferred to a new property company (Inverness Caledonian Thistle Property (2004) Ltd) which was set up to manage the new stands. It would appear however that they do not hold ownership of the stands as they "Sub-lease" them to the club....which means that they are leasing them from another company (possibly Inverness Caledonian Thistle Property Ltd...note the missing 2004, which means it is a separate company). Both these companies would appear to have no connection to ICT and are owned either in whole, or in large by Tullochs/Inverness Holdings. I also noted from this years accounts that the club only have a 50% stake in Caledonian Thistle Properties Ltd (yet another different company), when last year they had 100%...and on doing a little investigating the other 50% now appears to be owned by Tullochs/Inverness Holdings. So that's 4 companies.... Caledonian Thistle Properties Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties (2004) Inverness Caledonian Thistle Trust ...that all seem to have a finger in the pie of stadium related property, but I have no idea which "bit" of property might belong to each. It would also seem that whilst the club are paying rent (which has increased by ?39,500 between last years accounts and this years) but that money doesn't seem to be making it's way back to the company which was originally set up to deal with the debt. So, who owns the property/lease? Who owns the Debt? And who are we paying rent to? I had kinda envisaged us paying off the debt (indirectly via rent) and perhaps purchasing the stadium back at some point, or that if we were to move then the debt would be cleared and their would be enough money left to set us up in a nice new stadium and be debt free....with the hope that we might be left a little in the bank to play with. However, it would seem that one of two companies owned by Tullochs/Inverness Holdings would be the ones to profit from the sale of the remainder of the lease at our current location. Anything that the club might see from such a deal would be entirely down to good will.....which makes me a little uncomfortable. Not to mention the fact that it makes the club itself practically worthless in terms of attracting anything by way of substantial investment. I'm not suggesting anything underhand or improper, and we could spend forever going through discussing the merits of every possible scenario, but all I'm really interested in is if anyone can add any facts to the above or point out where I have definitely made an error.

Nothing to be confused about. My experiences with the club as listed above all occurred at, or around, the time when we were making the transition from Div 1 to SPL.....which, IMO, was the beginning of the problems which have led things to where they are today. A bit of underhand skulduggery by some staff to win points upstairs I can cope with if the club benefits in the long run, but when added on to all the other frustrations then, yeah, itt does make my blood boil a bit. It's a bit of a clich?, but if I didn't care so much about the club, then I wouldn't get so worked up about it. I don't claim to be any bigger, better or more passionate a fan than the next man, but there's certain things that have happened to me which perhaps give me a "unique bond" to ICT and which most may never understand, and I know for a fact that when I perceive people as doing things which are damaging the club then it does make me quite angry. Now, you're probably reading this thinking "weirdo", and I'm cool with that, just as I'm cool with your "Hell hath no fury" comment. Your not the first person to tell me these things, and you'll not be the last I too have worked in middle management and am aware of the need to look at things from both sides. As my background is in Financial Services (primarily compliance) and Change Management, then certain things stand out a mile as being obviously "wrong" in the way the club are doing certain things and trying to spin other things....and I can also see how poorly they have managed the transition up to the SPL and all the changes that have come about and been forced upon them by that process. I've tried the "relaxed" approach to it all, and even when people were passing my stuff off as their own etc, it never stopped me from offering the help and assistance. I had people telling me back then that I was a fool to keep on going back for more, and maybe I was. The thing is, I would go back again if I was asked too and so long as the club were benefiting then I'd maybe even put up with some of the same old chit. In ten years when I've made my millions and retire early I'll invest in the club and put it all to rights....until then I'll keep on making my points in the hope that maybe someone might at least show me the courtesy of listening.

The point I was getting at, and perhaps I should have worded it better, was that whilst it's fine to look at what other clubs are doing to get ideas, just because they don't do it doesn't mean it's non-starter. Also, when someone puts an idea forward, the first response shouldn't be "Do other clubs do it?". From my own personal experience in dealing with the club on several things, both recently and a few years back, that was/is the typical response. All that says to me is "Here we have a person who isn't confident operating in the field they are in, and isn't confident in making decisions based on their own knowledge and understanding of things." If you ask a fireman to put out a fire, you expect him to know how to do it, you don't expect him to phone up the fire station in the next city to see what they do. When I was in communication with the club last season about the problems arising from what fans saw as over zealous stewarding and I asked that the club consider some kind of handbook or communication explaining the rules, where they come from and why they are in place, the first response I got was something along the lines of "Well I'm not sure it's necessary as other clubs don't do it". That's the kind of thing I am getting at and the response I would have been expecting was, "ok, let's look to see if there's a need, and if so, then let's look to see what we can do, and perhaps we can have a look to see if there's a succesful solution being used by another club." I don't think it's so much that those on the board don't have the clubs best interests at heart, I just think that they've lost sight of the importance of the fans. I also think that a lot of what they do, and how they do it alienates fans to a greater or lesser extent. You only have to look back a week to see the Chairman in the press and on TV listing Sponsors and Advertisers as "the lifeblood of this club"...with the fans only being added to that statement afterwards when it went to press. Without Sponsors, Advertisers etc then the club might not be what it is today, but without fans then you don't have a club at all....tell me, which is most important, and why should fans accept it when they are portrayed as an after thought, or a necessary evil? As to putting forward proposals, I've been there, done that and bought the t-shirt. I've lost count of the number of times I've put together proper, structured proposals to the club on things. And again, in my experience, they are either ignored totally or taken from you and then quietly passed off as someone else work by the time they get upstairs. Electronic Ticketing System, Club Mascot, Merchandising Ideas, New Telephone System...that's just 4 that I can come away with of the top of my head that all happened in the last 4 (ish) years where I did extensive work on the preperation of proposals and ideas and someone else has taken the credit....I could probably go through my e.mails and files and find another dozen things which have either never been answered or might have passed under my radar and gone into place. When the club were busy during the summer leading up to and the first season in the SPL, they were happy enough to have fans like me running merchandise over to the Eastgate for them, covering in the shop, running of posters for things and doing the grunt work for many other things. Then when your perceived as surplus to requirements....bam, your gone without so much as a thank you. I used to stand in the stadium and watch "hangers on" getting given freebies for this that and the next right left and centre. Not because of what they did for the club, but because of who they were. Inever so much as took a free ticket for a game from the club for all I did, yet when I had ticket problems for a game against C*unty (I had tickets, they just weren;t the ones I had bought and paid for) and I asked for it to be sorted, I was basically told "tough luck". The club know exatly who I am so there's no veil of anonymity here, relative or otherwise and I would welcome even the opportunity to sit down and talk over my concerns in a proper manner. It's not been for the want of asking, and I even approached Alan Savage and Grassa at the Fans Forum about the whole Brewster/Warnock thing and said to them that me ranting in the forum about things and them getting p*ssed off at the stuff thats said doesn't do anyone any good and ask would they be willing to have a proper meeting. The agreed....but I'm still waiting!!! On that last point we will agree. I think we're a million miles away from Set Agendas and Fans sitting down round a table with the Club and thrashing out ideas and suggestions and people need to realise that whilst talk of a return of the "Boardroom Banter" is a positive step, it is just that....a step. Right now I'd be happy with the club acknowledging fans concerns on certain things and producing even the briefest forms of newsletter/regular communication on what's going on the moment. From there it can be taken forward and looked at as becoming more of a two-way thing. To try and do everything at once is a recipe for disaster and an end to things before they have a proper chance to get off the ground. Not all fans are "highly succesful businessmen", but we're not all so wet behind the ears and gullible as you might think. Treat us with a bit of respect when it comes to things and you might just find you get a bit of that back.

Jnr, whilst I am all for doing the things I mentioned to increase bums on seats and possibly improve revenue streams I do realise, and so must others, that some things won't bring an instant surge in profits/disposable funds for the club. In fact, many of these initiatives would doubtlessly cost the club money in the short (even medium) term. Let's use the catering as an example. The club (as far as I know) simply rent the space for a flat fee, so increased pie sales wouldn't be money straight in the clubs pocket. What does happen though is that with more people coming through the gates and more people spending money at the serveries, the value of those catering pitches increases. So when the contract/lease comes up for renewal and the club put it out to tender, they can command a higher rental income. Whilst the fans should understand that these things need to be taken into account, the club also need to be confident that the fans will support the efforts long term and make them viable. That's where I think this "void" between club and fans is doing damage....fans are losing/have lost faith in the club to be delivering on certain things, and the club don't appreciate that if they do things in a certain way and get fans to buy in to their position then together it can be made to work. It's something I come back to time and again, but when I was working with Change Management at RBS the most important thing in any relationship between a business and it's customers during periods of change and adjustment was to Manage Expectations. Maybe we have it all wrong and if you sit down and put the figures together then it doesn't make sense over the short, medium or long term....but when you have so many people saying the same thing and making the same ideas then their comes a point where you have to sit down and do the figures and make the case one way or the other. You can liken the fans of a team to kids if you want, you know the annoying stage they go through where everytime you refuse them something or tell them know the only response you get is "Why?"....there's only so many times you can dismiss them with a "Because I said so" before you have to sit down and actually explain the reasons "Why" so as they will stop pestering you. And, as anyone who has kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews or whatever around will tell you, every now and then you'll get one little smart erse among them who disproves your reasons and makes a case for themselves that you just can't ignore. In short, it all comes back to communication. The more the club and fans communicate, the better the understanding will be and the more likely fans will be to accept "Why" some things are as they are, and from time to time the fans will surprise the club by coming up with something which makes perfect sense.

I know, and I wasn't blaming the club. I was just using it to show that these things can be well received....although pointless if you don't continue them. Just because the SPL initiative died, it doesn't mean we (or any club) should give up on the idea behind it. As I said, it would be nice if we showed some of our own initiative from time to time...if it worked and was bringing in more Away fans, then let's facilitate it ourselves and not rely on the SPL or anyone else to do it.

No disrespect intended Laura, and its a commendable idea, but don't you think the club should be doing this rather than the trust ... Perhaps instead of making you buy them, the club should be giving you a certain quantity of free child/youth season tickets which you can manage and allocate to those who might need/want them Can't disagree Scotty, your not the first to suggest we should get them free of charge if we take on the management of them, but it was down to the fact that it wasn't happening that we introduced the pilot last season. We did negotiate a bit of a 'deal' on this years tickets. At the end of the day it's just a different way of putting pennies in the ICT pot. We are trying to tie in some other things to enhance the experience for the groups and just hope that a few of them drag parents along in years to come. LG, you're already aware that I find it absolutely appalling that the club charge the Trust for these tickets and that not only should you be getting them for free, but you should be getting more than the amount you have at present. My Nieces and Nephews come home from school regularly with information about things that Ross C*unty are doing for kids in relation to football and it feels like they could have free tickets to go there for just about every home game if they so desired. Add to that the fact that when my sister stayed in Pumpgate Court, my Niece and her friends would be welcomed in to watch Clach (so long as they behaved) on a Satruday afternoon without having to part with a penny. ICT are supposed to be the most senior, professional club in the area and your lucky if the kids come home with one piece of information a year about what's going on at TCS, or what kids initiatives are being run by us etc. We have 2500 to 3000+ empty seats for every home game, so surely it would do no harm for the club to be giving away a 1000 tickets every fortnight to primary schools and offering ?5 tickets or something to secondary schools.....and every now and again you not only give the kids a free ticket, but you give them an adult ticket to go along with it (subject to entry for both adult and child together to reduce the number of people who will try and abuse it). Granted, we'd probably take a hit on the number of season tickets sold to children, but surely the adults attending and the revenue from other areas would/could go a large way towards offsetting that. Even if it cost the club money in the early years they are capturing full paying adult fans for the future.....not to mention all those kids who are in the habit of going to see ICT now wanting parents to buy tickets for cup matches and the like. Offer similar incentives in the Away end also. How often have ICT fans not travelled to a game because they have kids to look after and taking them to away days is far too expensive? It works both ways, and as I was getting at above, it's better to have a bum in a seat and make even ?1 from them than it is to have an empty seat which is bringing you nothing. In fact, what ever happened to the U12's Passport Scheme or whatever it was? I seem to remember that being well received, yet I've not heard anything more about it. Whilst I'm on a wee rant....there's nothing that bothers me more than when making a suggestion you get the "do other clubs do that?", or "what do other clubs do?" response. I don't give a flying fig what other clubs do, it's what we do that's important. Not only are we in a unique situation due to geography, but every now and again I wouldn't mind seeing us taking the initiative on something instead of following on the coat tails of others.

If your obsessed with Team Formation and Tactics then I've added a T-Shirt just for you............ Writeable Team Tactics Shirt Comes with it's own marker so all your mates can write rude messages on your back in the pretence that they're really discussing tactics when your in the pub.

BBC DJ Chris Morris landed himself in trouble twice with fake death announcements. One of them was the death of Heseltine whilst interviewing another politician who then went on to deliver a live on-air tribute....it resulted in Chris Morris being suspended. Jimmy Saville also started legal action against Chris Morris for announcing on air that he had died of a Heart Attack. Bloomberg published Steve Jobs obituary last week despite him still being alive. Apparently whoever was updating the 17 page article hit publish instead of save

Just shows you that even big companies such as PWC can get it wrong from time to time because we weren't debt free in 06/07

I can make her turn clockwise or anti-clockwise at will.....do I get Brewsters job?

The whole point of being a selling club is to sell your players....not give them away for nothing or next to nothing. The club need to start looking a bit further forward than they have been up till now and start thinking about players contracts 18 months or more before they are due to expire. Then, and only then, will we start to reap the full benefits of being a "selling club".

Balde was offered more than just ?25,000 a week from what I can gather. He was also offered an additional ?10,000 every time he made an appearance. This would have given him the chance to earn more money than he is on at present and does, IMO, suggests that Balde fears that he might not cut the mustard down south....and in effect, be left on the bench (or worse) and out of pocket. He has every right to see out his contract where he is, and I would never argue a persons right to that.....but I do question his motivation when he has a potentially better offer on the table.

One thing that does worry me is that I've never seen us pick up so many injuries under any other manager and I think that's down to Brewsters training methods and his pushing players to their limits physically. Like anything that operates at it's maximum, it doesn't take much to break it. Not necessarily a bad thing, but we've already had a few players out with knocks and strains and we're barely in to the season. If the trend carries on them we could find ourselves VERY thin on the ground come November/December. I don't think we should have been signing people for the sake of it, but I do think it would have been wise to add a couple of half decent squad players at the very least....even if they were 6 month loan signings to see us through to the next window.

I thought it was funny (the tie in to Juanjo, not the fact that Lennon was assaulted). I do find it hard to muster any kind of sympathy for Lennon though. Aside from the fact he's an antagonistic twat who seems to get off on winding people up....walking home alone late at night through Glasgow on the evening of an OF derby isn't exactly the brightest thing in the world to be doing.

Information is on the Official Site - Click Here Maybe someone else can answer a question on what I think might be a change. In the past, if you sponsored the Home Shirt, you got a signed shirt from/for that player or whatever item it was. However, all they say now is that you'll get an "Exclusive ICTFC Branded Momento" - Does this mean that you no longer get the Shirt if you sponsor that item? I only ask because it could cause problems for things like the "Internutters" who all chip in to sponsor Munros Shirt if at the end of the season Guzz is unexpectedly given a key-ring or other "Exclusive Branded Momento", that nobody is really interested in, for the draw.

No....Emoluments are a taxable income and would not include expenses which will be listed elsewhere in the accounts. If that statement sounds familiar it's because I told you the same thing last year

I believe that's the wages of our DoF.

I've been trying to come up with a good way to do something like that which is a little more exciting than just writing it on a shirt. Watch this space. On breast only ?22.99, On Breast and back is ?24.99 - Let me know what colours you want. It could also be done with the Logo on the Front Breast and "Your Name" and a large number on the back (like you get on the back of a players shirt) which you can customise to suit yourself for ?25.99. Give me half an hour or so and I'll knock some examples of each setup together and add them to the shop.

Scored the winner for Dinamo again this weekend.....nice strike taken on the turn. Clicky Clicky

I would just phone the stadium and ask to be put through to the Youth Development Dept.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/7590948.stm Includes Rossco doing his keepie upies down the middle of the park. Also have to say that was great play by Barrowman to rescue the ball from the line that led to the Imrie Goal.

I take it your not making any claim on Away cup victories? Or are you saving that in case there's a tie-break at the end of the season?