Charles Bannerman

Aye... on the way there maybe!!

Full commentary from Rob MacLean on BBC Radio Scotland 810 medium wave and online.

It was just when I happened to notice that this thread is still drifting on that I realised that we still have over a year to suffer of this tedious Neverendum. I just don't know why Salmond couldn't have accepted that the Scottish public generally aren't Anglophobes like his own party and abandoned his attempt at a 2014 Bannockburn Bounce in favour of a much earlier date which would have given us all a break from all this stuff. September 9th 2013 comes to mind as a much better referendum date. After all it's the 20th anniversary of the Thistle and Caley merger votes..... oh, and the 500th of the Battle of Flodden!! A missed opportunity to save us a whole extra year of tedium Alex!!! Now, to turn to the wheeze proposed in the link in post #195. This looks to me like pretty standard Anglophobic SNP dogma. You know what I mean. The kind of good old fashioned SNP Anglophobia they've tried to put on the back burner for the moment in an attempt to curry favour for this forthcoming vote - but which will re emerge pretty quickly when it's all over. The gist of it seems to be the by now familiar SNP whinge of "Thae English are grabbing aw the money and investment down south!!" And their solution? Apparently for Scotland to give up its share in all the consequent British wealth generation and go it alone. Let's be clear about what this paper is saying. Because, by claiming that all that wealth resides down south, that surely must also amount to an admission that Scotland is much poorer - which actually completely contradicts the standard party line. They can't have their cake and eat it. That paper actually amounts to a very decent case FOR the Union! So what do they want to replace this terribly unjust wealth distribution with? Well... SCOTLAND silly! Which of course is simply another scenario where the northern part has far more poor people and all the rich people are concentrated in the south. "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" as they say in Gaelic. Once again, I return to my thesis that, in addition to the fundamental lack of substance in the separatist case, there are just so many extra reasons for Highlanders not to vote for separation. We've just seen another example here, prompted by ideas from this economic paper, of how the Highlands would become an underprivileged appendage of a separate Scotland with no fallback on a larger and more secure host state. And that's before you consider that, in addition to most of the rich people across the central belt, west central Scotland also creates a disproportionate health and welfare bill which would also have to be subsidised by Highland taxes, but without the Barnet consequentials which currently mean that within the UK, public spending is £1000 a head higher in Scotland. The SNP's case for separation, such as it is, seems to be pretty bogstandard and largely predicated on greed with a fair smattering of Anglophobia which, like Blair with Socialism, they're trying to keep quiet about for the moment in an attempt to become electable. They also from time to time float policies such as on pensions etc with which they try to bribe the electorate. However they could only ever deliver these if the SNP actually had a say in the government after any separation took place. And that is far from certain. The separatist argument seems simply to be to slice off the bit of Britain which has all the (overstated) oil wealth (or at least until it runs out in a few decades time) and declare it a separate and allegedly wealthy state. Well chaps... to follow your argument through to its logical conclusion..... IT'S PICTLAND'S OIL!!!!! Why share it with the central belt, and in any case Pictland was there long before Scotland was ever thought of. OK, time to do a Rip van Winkle and escape the tedium by going back to sleep again - whilst making sure I wake up in time to vote NO.

Commentary with Liam MacLeod, Willie Miller and Jim Spence on 810 MW and Radio Scotland digital and also on BBC online.

And at Ross County their average attendance of 4300 is 86% of the population of Dingwall. So I don't think relation of crowd sizes to the population of the host community is particularly accurate or revealing. Similarly Rangers' and Celtic's combined gate is knocking on towards 15% of the population of the city, although much of their support comes from far beyond - including Ireland. However I would agree that a club based in a city the size of Inverness should be getting bigger attendances. The reasons for this under achievement are probably many - some of them relating to Scottish football as a whole while others are more locally focused. However the big one for me is the one which affects all non-Old Firm clubs in Scotland and that is that a league with a population base of just 5.3 million has two clubs which - for religious, political and (I use the next word fairly loosely!!) cultural reasons - have supports and suck in resources which far outweigh their actual significance as football teams. That is the fundamental problem with Scottish football in an era when the amount of money you can get into the coffers is so much more important than in previous days. Rangers and Celtic suck in so much of Scottish football's wealth that, in the modern era, there is little scope left for other teams to do very much. Like it or not, one of the main factors determining the nature of Scottish football is Irish religion and politics. And in terms of the Old Firm factor, Inverness is no different with its busloads of locals heading off to Ibrox and Parkhead on a Saturday and many more who still support these teams from afar so are lost to their local club. There are, of course, other factors - including simply "something" about Inverness which I have never understood or even had a decent handle on despite being born and bred.

I know the plural of stadium is not "stadiums" but I couldn't be bothered to change it. Before the "correct" brigade sort me out. It would have been quicker to sort it out than post again explaining why you couldn't be bothered! Lizi, you are actually right. Stadiums is the preferred plurar throughout most of the english speaking world. Stadia is derived from latin and seldom used to mean plural of stadium according to http://grammarist.com/usage/stadiums-stadia/ Dd, it would have been quicker to do a bit of research before laughing. So in India, which has a population of over a billion, they use "stadia". Meanwhile the Yanks, who have notoriously bastardised the English language since before the Boston Tea Party - keeping, as they do, their "pants" up with "suspenders" whilst making their way along the "sidewalk" in search of a "street car" - use "stadiums". I think I'll stick with good old standard English and stuff whatever "criterions" our transatlantic Johnny Come Lately cousins adopt.

Yes I realised that but Derek's post inspired so many responses that I just went for them. And in any case, Guy Fawkes Night is a summer celebration in southern hemisphere countries like Argentina and Chile since November is early summer down there.

Derek that post is a masterpiece of a reflection on the degree of freedom which quite young kids had maybe 40 plus years ago, compared with now. The things you were allowed to do at an early age whic would be unthinkable to parents now. Your reference to strawberry picking reminds me of when, in about P7, we would, unsupervised, get a bus out to Lentran for a day's picking and I also have a clear recollection of walking back towatrds Inverness along what was then the main A9. Then in the autumn, having wandered the streets at will in the pitch dark without being mugged for the nuts, oranges and threepeny bits you had got for Halloween, you would set about building the Guy Fawkes bonfire - in our case on the wasteland behind st Valery Avenue (aka the back of Kavvies'). Having done that you would sit out for a few nights, with only a smaller fire to combat more pitch dark, "guarding" the bonfire in case boys from the Ferry came along to set it alight on your behalf. And then, when Guy Fawkes night came along, it was time to let off the huge stash of fireworks which had been built up in the cupboard under the stairs in my wooden Swedish house!!!! These were fireworks which any 10 year old could buy in Toyland or Christison's shop where you would often split open the bangers,which could be bought in boxes of a dozen, and make "genies" with the piles of gunpowder.

To quote George Bernard Shaw - "The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." The problem is that they do have a game which is potentially interesting and exciting (ie in its Twenty20 or other limited over format) but they seem to prefer to adopt this five day borefest which as often as not ends in a draw, not because the teams are remotely similar in standard but because they just haven't got the thing finished!

Laurence... in a word, most (but definitely not all) cricket is tediously BORING. Test matches last for nearly a week with breaks for their lunch and their tea every day and then - even if it doesn't p!ss down with rain (*) sending them all scampering for cover - the game as often as not ends as a DRAW. What that actually means is that even the best part of a week wasn't enough for them to finish it. Basically, test cricket is nine people watching ten people watching three people doing very little for hours and days on end. Now that's not really much of a test. Even in club cricket, when Highland scored 224 and disposed of Northern Counties for a pitiful 19 in Inverness the other week, it still took Highland almost 20 overs to bowl NC out. That means that of the 118 balls, in about 100, nothing whatsoever happened.... apart from that slow handclapping they do when nothing happens (which is usually)! Now this Twenty20 is a very different matter and a whole lot more like fun! That is REAL entertainment and rapid, quickfire action with full on aggression. Bring it on! So cricket really is a potentially very good game but woefully mismanaged by the people that run it. (*) a few years ago did England not make almost as much fuss about winning the ashes as they did about 1966 when the reality was that they only won because is started to pee down so instead of coming back to finish the game on a nicer day, they just called it a draw?

If I had known that IHE was possessed of such revisionist talents, I probably wouldn't have bothered writing a word back in 1997 in anticipation of this entertaining epic. But on the other hand one suspects that without his copy of Against All Odds, IHE might just be lacking a template on which to base this revisionist peroration! I wonder if he will manage to progress his tale as far as the opening of the Caledonian Stadium and winning the Third Division title before the "real" football starts again on August 3rd?

Do you remember Marshall Grant (previously Notman) leavinh his mini van running driverless in 2nd gear down the street while he ran to and from it, delivering rolls to various houses?

http://movieclips.com/a8Vq-a-fish-called-wanda-movie-dont-call-me-stupid/

I'm getting really bored wth this thread!

Would you not get a bit brassed off at ICT constantly finishing bottom of the Third Division and, from 2015, liable even to be kicked out of there by the upwardly mobile Highland League champions?

Yes but customers, unlike the staff, don't get paid to turn up to Tescos and have the discretion to go elsewhere - hence reducing the need for Tesco workers. Maybe there is some kind of generic problem here with Tesco, given that their profits seem to be moving rapidly southwards. On the other hand if Tesco workers ain't happy there, maybe they should go and get a job somewhere else - preferably where they don't have to deal with the public. Interestingly enough the cafe at Tesco Inshes has finally closed which will be a merciful relief to many customers who no longer have to inflict the food on themselves. As it happens the staff were extremely polite and helpful and the coffee and toast (when the respective machines weren't broken down) were actually quite good. But the food itself was absolutely minging - partly because it sat and coagulated on a hotplate for so long because there were so few customers becasue the food was so crap and the place was getting run down etc etc..... Unfortunately my visit to the Tesco Retail Park cafe was little better... and just don't mention the Adsa one although the store staff are extremely polite and helpful! The food in Morrisons cafe is a bit better but you wait forever for it to be brought and even for someone to take your order. But eternal queueing in Morrisons is a way of life. So between one thing and another, Inverness maybe isn't that well served by supermarkets!

Spot on Donald! Not for the first time I have to say that I am completely bemused at the range of sanctions which are possible against football clubs and fans for "offences" in this neck of the woods while the Orange Order - an organisation which was founded and exists for the purpose of being anti-Catholic - can strut its bigoted stuff around streets of Scotland more or less as it likes. Here we seem to have UEFA following in the footsteps of the Scottish Executive and focusing its attention on the wrong people.

Pay to get in? To Telford Street? Yerjokeenmun!! (As we say in Inverness, but - possibly not being from these immediate parts yourself Doogie - that's an expression you may not recognise.) When we used to go to watch Davie Reid, Bobby Glennie, Sammy Ross, Jimmy Smith and co. of a Saturday afternoon we used to avoid forking out the 9d by "joopeen in" over the gate at the left hand corner of the Howden End before collecting the empty MacKintosh's lemonade bottles from around the ground and cashing them in at the club shop beside the twin plaster footballs for 3d each. So once the Pennny Dainties and Smiths Crisps had been bought, there was usually enough left to fund a visit to the front stall of the La Scala the following Saturday when Caley were away. (Not enough to pay for the flea powder as well though )

You mean you think he's a County sew and sow! That will be my option B then!

Ha ha!!! Don't know where I got that won from

You know, I've just been reflecting for the last little while on where this thread is going.... or rather isn't. Once again we have a member of the blue phonebox brigade with much of Torvean Quarry on his shoulder posting his usual complete drivel and succeeding in promoting dissent which really isn't there. As a fairly keen but not fanatical Caley supporter from the mid 60s, I have been happy enough to move into the ICT age with fond memories of a lot that was very good taking place at Telford Street on the part of one of the top clubs in the Highland League. I am usually quite happy to accept that without being over analytical about it. As an Invernessian I also take much satisfaction from what Thistle did and what Clach continue to do. Rather than dissect this to death, I'd prefer simply to look back with a lot of satisfaction on these great past days. But then, instead of celebrating all of that, and the more recent achievement of ICT getting to within 90 minutes of Europe, you find yourself instead almost talking down the old days in defence against Dougal's latest irrantional rant and 20 year old hissy fit of pique. I might ask - why do we keep rising to this rubbish? And I have to admit that I am as bad as anyone for doing so. It's just that I can't bear to see blatant drivel talked without shooting it down. But every time someone shoots holes in Dougal's latest wafer thin gallon can of p!sh, they are actually supplying him with attention which far outweighs any fundamental support for what he (or she) is ranting on about. Once again I have to say... is Dougal REALLY a member of the blue phonebox brigade? Or is he actually:- A - An 80 year old staunchly pro-merger retired social psychologist indulging in some later life research OR B - A secret agent in the pay of a rival SPL club with a mission to attempt to sew discontent among ICT fans OR C - does he just need to get out a bit more? Maybe someone should start a poll. And maybe we should make a pact not to rise to Dougal's nonsense.

Mantis, that actually occurred to me too when I looked in the book for the quote in question. When I wrote that back in 1996-97, my perception was that the 1980s, arguably their best period ever, was a time for Caley which was a cut above a background of otherwise fairly consistent success, It was only a couple of years ago when I started researching the preliminary online chapter for the book which went on this site that I began to realise that there were actually more gaps in Caley's past record than I had previously appreciated - such as in the 50s and 70s. Rest assured if the book were ever to be reprinted, that could well become "the standards to which the Caley support had become accustomed during the 80s" (But you will have read that already since the carrier pigeon I sent to the Hebrides will probably have got to you before this electronic version does )

Not entirely true......I'm on holiday so doing this from memory (my memory not being what it was but I still have a few years on ol' Central Belter). Caley won the Q-Cup in 1991-2 and went on to have a superb Scottish Cup run, ending in a Round 4 replay at the end of February at McDiarmid Park. I stand moderately corrected. At the original time of writing I didn't have a copy of "Against All Odds" beside me which I now do so I can quote what it does actually say on P4. "Indeed all Caley got in theri last six years after the 1988 League title were the Inverness Cup, the North Cup and the Qualifying Cup once each - thin pickings by their normal standards." And don't give me this holiday crap... you're permanently on holiday (a state in which I will soon be joining you.)

Yes indeed they did, but statistics like this do seem to stick disproportionately in the minds of people like Dalneigh Caley - who presumably was a Howden Ender of the 80s. Caley equally won very little during the 50s, for much of the 70s and (as already illustrated) in the final 6 years from 1988 onwards. They never had the permanent greatness which a number of people delude themselves into believing was the case. One of the problems of the "militants" of the merger years was that they had this rose coloured spectacles view of the 80s and tended to generalise it across a much wider period which is simply inaccurate. (Apart from IHE who spent most of the 80s trying to recover from the 70s!) They also failed to appreciate that by 1993/94 Caley was just a shadow of the team of the 80s - which they had deluded themselves into imagining was normal service for Telford Street, which it wasn't. Caley was a superb club with which I grew up - but let's keep things in realistic proportion (and note my modest correction in post #387)

What a crock of disingenuous mince from the usual suspect! Dougal seems to have forgotten (if he ever knew it in the first place) that during its last six years in existence, Caledonian FC never won any of the Highland Leagues major honours contested by all the clubs - ie the League, the League Cup or the Qualifying Cup. The last of these was the league which was won in the spring of 1988, a few months before Caley were routed 3-0 on their own ground by Jags in the Q Cup final replay. That doesn't sound much to me like a team which had "outgrown the Highland League". But unfortunately Dougal does seem to suffer from this delusion which afflicted a minority of Caley fans that they were in some way invincible and a much bigger cheese than the club really was. Maybe Dougal wasn't at Kingsmills Park in April 1988 to see the outright jubilation when Wilson Robertson scored the only goal of the game to give the three points which were needed to keep Caley in the title race. And presumably he wasn't at Grant Street a few nights later among the large presence of Caley fans who celebrated hysterically when Clach finally extinguished Buckie's challenge on their behalf with a 2 all draw. These celebrations (and I witnessed them both) didn't sound much to me like the Highland League title meaning "absolutely nothing". And what these Caley fans were actually unknowingly celebrating was Caley's very last Highland League title, all of six years before the club became part of ICT. Because these last six years actually yielded very little - the Inverness and North Cups to be precise - as Peterhead, then (sorry to say it chaps!) Elgin then Ross County took control of the Highland game. Get used to it Dougal. Caley were simply one of the bigger players in a provincial semi professional league. Five or six years into a phase of decline, they joined with Thistle and now, 20 years later, crowds have increased seven fold to watch Inverness football in the top half of the SPL.