starchief

Yeah, we had ideas above our station. None of that now. I really believe we can avoid relegation next year.

I'm sure we can do it. BELIEVE!

As you'll see (in fact, you even posted on the thread), this is not a simple reaction to a cup final loss. That I can forgive. Even celebrate as a step up.

Probably because we wouldn't have got relegated if Brew had been sacked earlier. The fans shouted for it. I presume you were backing the manager and felt Brewster should have stayed as managerial ability somehow doesn't seem to matter? Somehow, we go on bad runs and good runs but nothing to do with tactics, coaching and team selection? Confidence will only take you so far. Managerial ability a lot further - in either direction!

And yet, we were in second place and going strong. Why bother hiring a manager if he has no influence on the team? His job is to stop a bad run! So, basically, we have a team that has successive years of getting promoted, stabilising itself, becoming top of its economic rivals and now an established top 6 team with a cup final behind it, now dropping down to being a relegation threatened team, even though the playing staff has remained the same? That would mean sacking in any other sphere of business.

I wasn't calling for Butcher's head. Thought he improved us from Brew's team and gave us a fighting chance. I also liked what he did with Motherwell and was unfairly sacked by Coventry. I also hope Yogi proves me wrong too. Nothing in his background (except Stokes) gives me hope. Given that people are now seeing avoiding relegation as success, even though we've signed up a successful team for next year, shows how far we've dropped. We got the wrong man. We either admit it now and move on, or we dive further as Yogi's background suggests, then get rid of him when the damage is done. Or else hope we really are all idiots. First choice for me.

I don't agree with this. The board should have got rid of Brewster before they did. It was all very gentlemanly but not the right thing for the club to stick with Brew - another nice guy that talked a better game than Yogi.

You really think this is all about a cup loss, instead of a massive downturn in form, some shocking results, a big drop in the league, a leaky defence and a lack of goals? To say that next year, with a settled and good squad, we should be settling for not getting relegated is ridiculous. And what's all this nonsense about top managers? No-one's expecting Mourinho but most of the new manager thread had sensible suggestions for our budget. And all this 'it would have happened anyway' nonsense. Why on Earth did we bring in a manager then if he can't arrest a drop in form? That's exactly what a manager is for. Otherwise, let's save the money as no doubt there would be some natural upturn in form?!?!

absent friend What saved Fergie was his track record of success. Yogi's track record is that when his team starts to fail, he is unable to arrest that drop. Hughes is not Sir Alex Ferguson.

You forget to mention the complete hammerings, the goal drought of 8 hours, the drop from clear second due to relegation style results, the background of the management team for not getting out of holes, the only home win being against Stranraer (after a replay), being unable to see which tactics work - all of this with the best team we've ever had. We can (and we will I'm sure) go on with Hughes but are we really saying that, with this team, avoiding relegation next year is success??? Do you believe Yogi is the best manager we can get? Do you think he will improve us next season? If so, then carry on believing. If not, why not cut our losses sooner rather than later. We don't need Yogi to get his team embedded. All we need is a decent manager that recognises how to play a strong squad. That's not Hughes.

A few months into Ebbe Skovdahl's reign, Willie Miller said he should go. It wasn't working, so best get rid of him sooner rather than later. Aberdeen regretted not listening to him. I feel the same about Hughes. It's not working and his record suggests it won't improve. There are better managers within our budget. Yogi was a ghastly mistake. Best to cut our losses now.

With such a good, settled team, worrying about relegation is a mark of failure.

Brill Esson Raven Meekings Warren Devine Tremarco Shinnie Draper Foran Tansey

Hughes didn't make the top six. Butcher got us to top two. Downhill since. The cup final was down to a last minute goal against the bottom team. Well done for that but it's hardly a strong record. I certainly don't want Hughes to be given until the end of next season, given how good a team we've got and how badly he is playing them.

Billy Dodds, Sportsound pundit "They [inverness] are good, honest players, but they don't suit open football. They get picked off too easily and the confidence is draining out them. From a Motherwell point of view, they've got two well-taken goals." He's not wrong (for once).

I don't think it's a striker problem. Mackay just isn't getting the chances. It's the Vincent role that's lacking. He's not played well since injury. I'd like to see Watkins in the hole, with Ross on the right, Doran on the left. Having an attacking central midfielder to back up anything knocked down by Billy, or feed short balls through is where we are truly lacking. It's Watkins, Christie or Vincent territory. I'd prefer to see Marley on from the start, with Ryan coming on later.

I also don't think it was a penalty from Meekings. If Josh hadn't touched Rooney, Adam would still have put the ball out after a heavy touch, then fallen over. A slight toucvh changed nothing. No advantage/disadvantage from it.

Big Celtic fan hated by Celtic fans due to his carping about the club. Also hated by Rangers due to being a Celtic fan, so carps on about Rangers. Also hated by non-Old Firm fans due to constantly carping on about the Old Firm. Usual rubbish from columnists (not really a reporter as it's opinions usually represented, not in-depth investigations). He's little more than a blogger. Who cares? There's nothing in these papers, except celebrities and opinions dressed up as fact.

I'm astonished you think that.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this. The cup is just a one-off. Europe shows far more consistency. Definitely the more prized*. *I reserve my right to change that to 'top six is the most important', 'finishing above Butcher is the most important', 'beating Ross County is the most important' or 'avoiding relegation is the most important' according to seasonal factors, such as being rubbish.

Doran looked really dangerous when he came on. But I'm not sure he would have if he'd been on at the start. The tactics were a return to what we looked so good at: i.e. counter-attacking. In the run-up, I'd said Foran and Tansey as the holding midfielders, with Draper playing behind the striker. I was wrong. I'd dissed Tansey for not having the pace to play that role (he hasn't) but I think he should have been pushed forward for the long shot. Not too far forward but enough for the ball to come back to him, then pow! It's over the bar! (but maybe in the back of the net occassionally). Watkins looked good (not so much yesterday but decent enough). I'd like to see a Ross-Watkins-Doran tried, with Watkins in the hole. Maybe that would give us a better chance of a goal, rather than the more midfield Vincent/Foran/Ross in there. All-in-all, we more than matched the team everyone has tipped to become the big force in Scottish football outside Celtic. A first cup final is as much an announcement as getting into the SFL or being promoted to the SPL. We are now very much a top six team. We challenge for Europe. We challenge for cups. They're not easy things to win (ask Aberdeen, Hibs etc.) but, for the first time in our history, we deserve to be spoken about in the same breath as the New Firm and more feared than the Edinburgh clubs. How far we've come.

He's probably closest to what we have for a substitute striker (even if he isn't), so I think he'll make the bench myself.

The team largely picks itself apart from a choice between Foran, Tansey, Draper and Vincent. Two in the holding and one in the advanced. Normally Vincent up front but he's not really done anything since injury. I don't think Tansey has that pace, so I'd go for Draper there, with Tansey and Foran behind. Williams - Watkins - Doran might also be an option but I think Williams more as a substitute if we're chasing the game.

I'd take a cup win even if it meant relegation. My pre-ICT team was St Mirren. They won the cup in 1987 and the team was: Money; Wilson Cooper Winnie Hamilton; Lambert Abercromby Ferguson Hamilton; McDowall McGarvey, and managed by Alex Smith with Jimmy Bone. Ian Cameron had a delayed arrival as he was sitting his finals for his degree, whilst Tony Fitzpatrick got on late - a true Buddies legend. Big Peter Godfrey was our Bobby Mann but injury earlier on stopped him getting into the final team but he deserved it. St Mirren then got relegated. Can't exactly remember the year. Can't remember the manager (might have been Fitz). Can't pick out the team. This will be the same for ICT. A cup win for ICT will live in legend. Way more bigger than either Europe or a league position.

Brill Warren - Meekings - Devine - Tremarco Ross - Foran Williams - Vincent - Greenhalgh Christie Devine needs a game. Foran and Vincent need to prove themselves. Raven, Doran, Shinne and McKay are key so need a rest. Williams and Ross can edge themselves into the cup final team. Warren would normally swap with Meekings but I'd rather a defensive right-back to give the centre pairing an understanding.