CaleyD

They admitted already (2 weeks ago) that they owed money to the Tax Man (around £45,000), so I don't think it will come as that big a revelation!!!

I don't see what the "not everyone uses the forum" argument has to do with anything. Nobody has ever stated that this is the case and it would be a little naive to think that everyone who wants to stand just so happens to be the same group of people who don't use the forum. Anyone, since you know all these people who want to stand, then feel free to pass on the request for feedback and invite them to send that to me via e.mail or directly to the club via snail mail. With regards the cost of the rail seats....the bottom line is that no matter how much they might return, the club DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY to get them installed. Part of the reason for this thread is looking for ideas on how that can be overcome. What's more, there's little point in installing such a system for away fans...aside from NOT HAVING THE MONEY TO DO IT...it's not going to increase the income. Moving people from one area to another and leaving other parts empty as a result does nothing to improve revenue and pay for the cost of these installations.

Guys like Munro, Duncan, Tokely, Wilson etc etc etc were never going to last forever. ICT were pretty unique in the manner that they managed to hold a core team together for so long and it was always going to come to an end one day. Partly because these guys get to a stage where they are past their best and partly due to changes in football in general where more and more players seem content to go warm the bench at clubs in return for a bigger wage instead of getting out there and plying their trade. Whether it was Butcher or some other manager, someone was going to have to guide the club through that transition. Would I prefer a settled squad with 20 odd players on 2 and 3 year deals with no injury worries and the ability to push the club forward? Hell yeah. Is that a realistic expectation? Not in the slightest. I'm as cheesed off as the next person at some of the performances we've witnessed this season, I just don't see the argument that some (as yet unidentified) alternative manager and/or group of players that would be affordable and willing to come to ICT would be doing anything different....it's all just pie in the sky speculation. It might not be pretty, it might not be what we want to see right now, but the inevitable transition that we are going through could have been a whole lot worse than it has been. We might not have been fortunate enough to get a manager capable of seeing us through relegation and a bounce straight back in to the SPL, we could be sitting in Dunfermlines position, languishing at the foot of the table with little hope of improving the situation. We could still be in Div 1 contemplating part-time football just so as we could make ends meet with the finances. So yeah, it's a bit crap right now, but is Butcher really to blame? Which manager might we have had who would be doing better? Where are all these players that are capable of beating a team made up internationalists? Who's wallet would be funding all this expectation? Far from thinking everything is rosy, I just think that...under the circumstances...it could be a whole lot worse.

How do you work out that Butcher "ripped the heart out of the club"??? You say he did it by doing things "his way"...is that not what a Manager is suppose to do? Were you not one of the ones getting their knickers in a twist when their was talk/rumours of various Board Members/Share Holders interfering with how the team was run? How should things be done if not in the way of the person who is employed to do the job? I suspect we're just going to come back to the "He got rid of Duncan and Munro" argument...but humour me anyway!!!

Back By Popular Demand The ICT (NON) Travel Club Users of the Travel Club bus and those who attended the evening last time around have indicated a desire for us to, once again, take the game to the Fans and provide a get together for those unable to travel for the Dundee Utd fixture on Monday 5th March. Match Kick Off is at 7:45pm, but you are welcome to come along earlier to secure your seat and have a few drinks pre-match. In order to do this we will be hosting a night at the ICT Social Club where fans can come along and watch the game together. As before....No "you must sit" rules will be in operation and you can even enjoy a drink while taking in the game. And yes, we will be doing FREE PIES again Open to everyone. No Age Restrictions. No charge for entry. No need to book or get tickets. Just turn up on the night. So as nobody misses out on a qualifying trip for the Travel Club Italy Trip Draw then anyone who already has a qualifying trip who attends will be credited with 1 additional qualifying trip (make sure to add your name to the register on the night). CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ON THE ITALY TRIP DRAW For those looking to travel to the game, see for the Travel Thread

They don't have to make two trips, they can buy online and collect on arrival.

Oh for the days when fans could accept a loss on the basis that the other team just played better!!!

Am i missing something here?? Can you explain the above.......................and who mentioned the bench having anything to do with Tokely's rift. e.g. Tokely and Butcher fall out because Tokely ate the last biscuit and Butcher wanted it....as opposed to Tokely and Butcher fell out because Tokely doesn't think he should be on the bench. One shows that a disagreement resulted in him being benched...the other shows that the disagreement is the result of him being benched. One would be Ego on the part of Butcher, the other would be Ego on the part of Tokely....both perfectly plausible (well, not the biscuit thing, but the scenario). As Tokely is a fans favourite then it's automatically assumed that he can do no wrong. For what it's worth...and Tokely is my favourite all time ICT Player...I don't think we miss him on the park, or that he should be a show-in for a start, as he has been just as culpable as anyone else in defence this season.

What a load of pis*. If there's a rift then it's because Tokely is upset at not being played...understandable with any footballer with a desire to play. Butcher is the manager, he picks the team...some people agree with his choices, some people don't. Saying that any disagreement is the reason he is on the bench as oppose to any disagreement resulting from him being on the bench is putting the cart before the horse. Amazing how all this crap only ever crops up after a loss!!!

Let's not forget that OTJ is returning from injury and we don't know exactly how fragile he still is. With the scoreline going the way it did so quickly...was it worth risking a setback in a match we were unlikely to pull back?

I could argue every point you have made thus far...but I see little point as you seem determined to just add a new one every time you get an answer to a previous "complaint". Damned when they do, and damned when they don't...try telling us exactly what you do want to see instead of just coming up with a list of moans.

The first half was a culmination of a totally inpet display by the back line and utter lack of confidence in all other areas, evident in the fact that nobody seemed to want to put a foot on the ball and hold it for more than a nano-second...."get rid quick" seemed to be the mantra. Second half, the back four improved with the introduction of Proctor....partly due to the rest not having to cope with the gaping holes he (Meekings) had been leaving for the first 45 minutes. I'm no Proctor fan, but credit where it is due and he had a decent 45 minutes. I was waiting, and waiting...and still waiting for OTJ to replace Tansey in the middle, but it never came. Tansey had a couple of nice passes, but for the most part he was mince, and that was made even worse by the fact that someone seems to have put lead insoles in his boots because he chased nothing, kept turning his back on the pass and stood around gurning if the ball wasn't played straight to his feet. All in all though, I thought the second half was a much improved effort and I disagree with comments about lack of commitment. Tansey aside, the players came off the park at the end knackered from the effort they put in. Also can't help but think that a lot of the reaction comes from the fact that we believed a bit to much in our own hype this past week in thinking that because of Rangers woes this game would be some kind of walkover for us....under normal circumstances I think we might have disappointed at the result and the nature of the first three goals, but more appreciative of the overall situation and display. Good to get it out of the system and we move on to preparations for next weeks game.

Chances are that STV just caught them when they were only half way through putting on/taking off the covers.

Complete the following sentence. "Going down faster than a.............."

P.S. Rangers were denied train travel....Scotrail didn't want to risk them going off the rails again so soon.

Meanwhile...back on topic. Anyone going to the game that might not have done without the above offer? (Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...."Rangers Fans in Home End"....there you go, that's that one covered, so no need for it to be repeated)

Because they could be removed and used there!!! Following up on another thought I had about possible options.....how many (qualified) welders do we have among the fans?

North Stand is out for reasons beyond anyone's control....short of rebuilding the stand using different construction methods. West Stand isn't totally out of the question, I just think that so long as the club view it as a way to make an extra few quid when the OF come calling then, as much as we might not like it, then removing income does not make sense. Yeah, the bottom line is pretty much that the club cannot afford to fund the cost of the seats....certainly not to the extent that would be needed to create the nucleus for the atmosphere it could generate. Not sure the covered/uncovered argument is such a big deal after all other than the back of the North Stand, you pretty much get wet whenever there's a hint of wind with the rain regardless of a roof. I don't think Sponsorship should be seen as that doubtful....all depends on how you sell it. Done on the basis that you will effectively be gathering all the noisiest, most active supporters in one place and any TV crowd shots and other people's attentions over and above those focused on the game, will be drawn to that area then it's going to be prime advertising location.....amazing what someone would pay for guaranteed exposure like that.

I'm pretty sure the majority of them land up in the hands of good causes as it is....perhaps the improvement that needs to take place is making people aware of this, and much of the other good work that goes left unknown.

Stick it in your signature. I did think about doing a Sky Dive, but apparently you need to be 14 Stone and I wasn't gaining weight for anyone!!!

Have to admit that I thought we might have had a bit more interest in this subject, going to be really tough to convince the club that they need to invest the time and effort if we can't muster more than 2 or 3 people to who are up for some kind of standing area.

Think I'll just stay at home, wouldn't want my being there enjoying the game offending all those people who can't afford to go out. (For the benefit of Charles Bannerman, that's how you do a reductio ad absurdum)

ICT have a Friendly/Training Match against Forres Mechanics at Mosset Park tomorrow night (Tuesday 21st) with a 7:30pm Kick-Off Club have asked me to post up the info just in case anyone wants to head along. Not sure if there's an admission, but if they do have one I doubt it will be more than a couple of pounds.

This, IMO, is part of the problem and one of the reasons for the lack of atmosphere at football matches these days. Everyone is far to "PC". Of course there needs to be boundaries in terms of what is acceptable in terms of songs/chants etc, but does it have to be the expense of having any kind of craic or banter at the expense of the opposition? Rangers screwed up and are in an almighty mess. Nothing any ICT fan sings/chants about that on Sunday is going to make it any worse so...no harm, no foul.

Let me just make it clear that I wasn't talking about any celebration of the merger itself....nor do I think there would be much stomach for that, and rightly so. The merger is an important part of the clubs history, and whilst it is one that should be taught and remembered, it is not one to be celebrated. However, that does not mean that we should simply forget what came before....and in celebrating 20 years of (I)CT you can not and should not ignore the clubs roots. I for one would not be interested in any celebration which served to try and strike Caledonian FC and Inverness Thistle FC from the history books and sought to pretend that we emerged from nothing. As far as I am concerned, the official records may show ICT only came in to being in 1994, but we have a history that stretches back 125+ years.