Renegade

I can't see how anyone can think it's anything other than a red. It's late, it's rash and it's a dangerous challenge. It was probably one of the easiest decisions the referee had to make all game. I'll tell you as well, had an Aberdeen players tackled, say Conor Pepper like that and had only gotten a yellow card, we'd have been screaming about the injustice of it - and we'd be right.

Just found this on YouTube. Heard about it many times, but I'd never actually seen it I don't think - Best moment is 1:11 - "Oscar Perez is stupufied!"

I thought he retired a few years ago. He went back to Canada and set up an academy IIRC.

I'd go for - Esson Meekings Warren Foran Blackman Draper A.Shinnie Pepper Doran Oswell McKay Subs - Reguero, Raven, G.Shinnie, Morrison, Roberts, Brislen-Hall, Polworth If Sutherland is fit, then have him starting down the middle with Oswell dropping to the bench.

Just seen the tackle on the TV there on the TV, horrendous challenge and deserved to go. No complaints from me.

I didn't have the best of views of his tackle yesterday and I haven't seen it back yet, but my initial reaction was that it was a bit late. Again, I didn't think it was a red card, but it was a poor challenge. As I mentioned in the Matchday Thread, the Meekings challenge in the first half was the worse of the two. Moving onto a slightly different topic though, I remember reading last season that Jones was the highest earner at the club. He's currently on a one year deal, so will be out of contract at the end of the season. Is he really worth keeping? His sending off against Killie (whether it was on his "bad knee" or not) was idiotic. I wasn't at the Motherwell game, but supposedly he was rubbish, he has an awful injury record, while others have said his style of play doesn't suit the Scottish game. With that in mind and with this tough economic climate, is he really worth keeping? To be honest, I'd shed no tears if the club chose not to retain him.

Should've finished them off was the feeling I came away with. As others have said, the first half was a bit dull with nothing of much note happening, apart from Meekings' late challenge and yellow towards the end. I thought he was lucky not to walk. In the second half, both teams seemed to be going for it a bit more, with Foran having probably his best game all season. The key moment though was Doran's miss. Whether he was fouled or not, from my angle I couldn't tell, but he should have put it away. Despite a possible foul, I thought he was actually fairly poor today. My only real gripe though, was after Aberdeen scored, ICT seemed to be playing for a draw. It wasn't Celtic Park they were playing at, it was at home against team, who were really no better throughout the ninety minutes. This fear of defeat attitude really annoys me, particularly when there was still time to try and win the game. Also (and this is linked to the last point), what was the deal with McKay change? Sutherland was putting in a great shift down the middle (something many of us have been calling for for months), but was moved the wing (where he's far less effective), with McKay playing the lone frontman role, where due the conditions and stage of the game, he was never going to contribute, and did not contribute anything. It seemed like a change to run the clock down more than anything else. Surely a straight swap of Doran for Pepper would've been the far more logical decision. Overall, I thought the aforementioned Sutherland and Foran put in excellent shifts, along with Andre Blackman who also played really well. Warren also looked fairly solid to me. On the other hand, Andrew Shinnie was not in the game at all and seems to have gone backwards since his injury. Doran as I said before, was not at his best (and has an air of Claude Gnakpa about him at times) and Graeme Shinnie, put in a hard shift, but is not a winger. Rotating him and Blackman though, could be a possibility. Finally, as I've said before, I don't think David Raven can play at this level. Another poor performance from him and it's one of many this season. Of the red card, I thought Jones's challenge was poor, but didn't warrant a red, though a yellow probably would've have been fair. Meekings' challenge in the first half was worse. Whether the red was for the language he used or not, is another issue. Overall, a decent second half, but ICT really need to finish teams off, particularly when they are there for the taking, and not playing for a draw as soon as the opponent equalises.

I see Claude Gnapka has a website, where the autobiography part makes him sound like some sort of world beating nomad! http://claudegnakpa.com/ About ICT he says this - Aye, being so far north must be the reason. Not the fact he was rubbish!

Apparently, Levein has won 30% of competitive matches as Scotland boss (two of which were against Liechtenstein). Berti Vogts was regarded as rubbish (which he was), yet he won 38.5% of competitive matches, while Burley (hounded from day one) won 37.5%. It could also be added that Levein arguably has a better group of players to choose from than the other too, perhaps the best since France 98. He is rubbish. FACT!

The worst thing that can happen now, is that Scotland beat Wales and that buys him some more time. It's a bit like that game against Liechtenstein that was won by pure luck and completely undeservedly, but saved him his job. I'd have sacked him for the 4-6-0 fiasco myself.

And that is the end of that.

No, he won't.

Esson Meekings Warren Foran G.Shinnie Draper A.Shinnie Morrison Doran Sutherland Roberts Subs - Reguero, Raven, King, Blackman, McKay, Brislen-Hall, Pepper I really don't fancy seeing Raven up against Hayes and McGinn, so Meekings gets the nod. I'd throw Roberts in the at the deep end, as he could be a bit of an unknown quantity against the Dons defence, with Sutherland down the middle. Due to the rather small back line the club has this season, I've opted for Foran at the back ahead of King as I think Foran would be a far better ariel opponent against Rory Fallon.

IMO while I thought he was a bit greedy at times, Blackman looks like he's got potential on the wing. He's fairly quick and has a decent touch. He was far quieter in the second half when he moved to left back. By the way, that was Jocky Scott I saw, wasn't it? If it wasn't, he must a twin brother!

Wasn't meant to be constructive, more like a fact!

Youth or not, he's rubbish.

Scotland will be going nowhere with that dud Levein in charge IMO.

Kicking the thing would be too much effort for him!

I really should have made it more clear that if we end up in a mess, which the way we are heading is very likely. The defence looks shambolic. Dedicated, experienced stalwarts have been replaced by injury-prone duds, particularly the likes of Tom Aldred and Greg Tansey who had little interest in sticking around. Also, finishing above Dunfermline and Hibernian should not be viewed as a cause for celebration. They were both horrendous last year, and in the league ICT failed to beat Dunfermline in each of the four meetings and were beaten twice at home by Hibs, with the only win against them coming against a fairly weaker outfit. I'd like to see a team who give their all for the club and at least have some connection to the supporters. We used to have players like that, but Butcher punted them. Presumably you are referring to my past criticism of Butcher. While that is true, I've never once called for his head.

They were also the stalwats and mainstays that we part of the team that had managed to stay up four seasons previously. They were also the stalwarts and mainstays during the season where ICT won Division One. They were also the stalwarts in the following season where ICT, on another day would've reached top six. You're making it sound like relegation was all their fault, quietly ignoring the fact that Butcher played his part as well. What I have noticed though, is that many pro-Butcher posters always refer back to the winning of Division One and the success of the following season, as to why Butcher is some sort of managerial god, yet when others criticise Butcher and mention the decision to punt Munro, Duncan and Tokely, the part he played in the relegation and other instances in the past, the happy clappers are the first to tell them to "get over it" and "move on".

Personally, I think he could do a job a full back. Also, if he was to start up front, would Oswell be an option to start alongside him? From what I've seen of him, he certainly has a bit more zip about him and apparently has quite a clinical shot. He could be the type of player that could do well as a finisher next to Foran's creator role.

You fail you mention that I did say that "most of the damage was done under Brewster", while Tokely had been playing centre-half for some weeks previously, Mihadjuks was playing in a position he'd never played before in the clubs most important game ever. Surely playing Mihadjuks and Tokely in their natural positions would've made more sense, no? Oh wow! Number one at County! He must be some sort of Peter Schmeichel/Oliver Kahn/*insert great goalkeeper here* hybrid! No doubt County will be declining bids from Barcelona, AC Milan and tons of other major clubs come January! In all seriousness though, is it logical to go with a poorer goalkeeper to the one on the bench for the club's most important game ever and the couple beforehand once Esson had come back from suspension? Of course not. And it's even more ridiculous when you consider that Michael Fraser had already signed a pre-contract with Motherwell. It was an utterly ludicrous and decisive decision. County are close to doubling the amount of unbeaten games that ICT did, which also includes games in the SPL and would be even longer had they not been gubbed by Hamilton earlier in the season. It's also an unbeaten run that has included Grant Munro almost in it's entirety and now includes Ross Tokely. Butcher punting Munro was the best thing that ever happened to County. But you and your ilk would probably find some way of praising him for that as well! Cool story bro.....albeit a little camp. Even if the club is hurtling towards relegation? Wow the Irish lads. Brewster had some good signings as well, should he have kept his job just because of that? I bet you probably did! Don't really see how the two are related to be honest. Short memories no - I have acknowledged the good times under Butcher, but they cannot justify his staying hin the job for life, especially if the reasons why we are in such a mess is done to his decisions.

Now that I agree with. I am by no means advocating to sack him this minute and the next couple of months will be the most telling of how the season will pan out, and he should have the time to do that. What I would say though, is that the Highland Derby in October could well be the most important match in the history of his managerial career and should ICT be on the end of a drubbing with Munro, Tokely and Duncan running the show, then in many people's eyes his position may well become untenable.

I'm no believer in this view that just because a manager has had success in the past means that they should be untouchable or is the man for the job for life. John Beck managed two consecutive promotions at Cambridge United and in his third season was sixteen minutes from guiding them to the inaugural Premiership season in 1992. They just missed out and no more. The following season, he had them hurtling towards relegation with both fading away into obscurity ever since. Paul Le Guen is another one. His record pre-Rangers was very strong, but it didn't save him from the sack. There's an old saying that a manager's second season is always his best and where Butcher is concerned it could be argued that he has two at ICT. The season after relegation was his second season here and his first full one in charge. As we all know, it was very successful. The season after as well (his second full season here), was also fairly successful and on another day could well have obtained a top six finish. It should also be noted, that both these seasons contained players that could be described as "vintage ICT" who had been at the club for a number of years, with Stuart Golabek's return being the only one instated by Butcher himself. Many though seem to forget, that ICT should have stayed up in 2009, but Butcher blew it with weeks remaining, opting to play the weaker and already leaving Michael Fraser over Esson and playing Pavels Mihadjuks out of position in the final game. While it's true that most of the damage was done under Brewster, Butcher certainly played his part. Just because someone has been the "man for the job" in the past, does not mean he always will be or should be in the job for life. Very few managers ever go to a club without it eventually turning sour, or becoming progressively stale and Butcher's time may now be upon us. Not long before he left Motherwell, I remember reading that while many fans did not want to see him fired, they did feel that he had run his course. I believe this may be scenario more and more of us will find ourselves in, in the very near future.

Was there not a study done a couple of years back where they took the population of each town and city, the amount of teams that place has etc, and it came out that ICT did fairly well in regards to the average attendance, compared to the size of the town? Presumably with this season's average attendance, it's probably more in line with every other team in the SPL.