Renegade

I think I'd be having to watch the game through my fingers if that was the centre-back pairing!

What a jump from concessions to adult! So if your eighteenth birthday was the Friday, you've gone in a matter of hours of life to having to pay an extra ?14!

If ICT had any other manager, Foran would've been dropped ages ago. He's not even the player he was even last season and his captaincy skills leave a lot to be desired - his pathetic booting of the ball out of the stadium at one point yesterday being a prime example. Sadly though, the fact that he's Butcher's goldenboy means that he'll never be dropped - and if that's not favouritism and poor management, I don't know what is.

Tudur Jones has never played at centre-back as far as I'm aware.

What I find a little baffling about the first half substitution, is Butcher makes far more changes than were necessary. He obviously has to make one change (Hogg comes off), so there's one. He moves Tokely into centre-back that's two and moves Davis out of the midfield and into full back. That's three changes. Perhaps it could've been better had he made more of a "like-for-like" change. Hogg comes off for Graeme Shinnie and Gillet moves to centre-back. Surely that would have been far better. That's all defenders in the defensive line, Tokely stays in his strongest position, Gillet moves to a position where he can play (and apparently did so many times for Barnet) and Graeme Shinnie takes his natural position - that leaves the team with far less disruption and keeps Davis in his strongest position - the midfield. Surely that would've made more sense, but going by Butcher's post-match comments, it never even crossed his mind!

He wasn't. He's supposedly back from injury, but why he wasn't on the bench I don't know. What I found strange is he says "I didn't want to take Davis out of midfield, but who do we play at right-back? Graeme Shinnie?" Is he not aware that the man he brought on, Lee Cox can play at right back?

Not starting Tade would be a mistake.

He played the first half in a friendly against Clach at Grant Street and then came off (supposedly injured at half time) - he was brilliant in that first half by the way, in fact I seem to remember Butcher saying that he could push Hayes for a place. He was then in the squad for another friendly later that week (against Forres IIRC) and got injured in the warm-up. The story of his career up to that point I believe. It's a shame he never signed cause I've always thought he was a great player.

Esson Tokely Meekings* Golobart Gillet Cox A.Shinnie Tansey Tade McKay Hayes Subs - Tuffey, Piermayr, G.Shinnie, Sutherland, Morrison, Ross, Foran No point in damage limitation, an attacking 4-3-3 for me. I think Tokely is a better full back than centre-half and the Golobart/Tokely partnership doesn't work. I also recollect him having a good game there last season, so Meekings comes in at centre-half. Also, drop Foran to the bench - he's well off form and not showing much in the way of leadership. * - If Meekings is still out, Tokely into centre-half with Piermayr coming back in.

The irritating thing for me, is it seems these days, some of the decisions seem more for the benefit of Butcher's ego than for the team. How Foran gets a game, never mind stay on the pitch is beyond me. He was appalling today. The tactics weren't just wrong either - they were just plain stupid. Long ball after long ball towards a man of 5"7 - it beggars belief that Butcher even thought of that in the first place. Why was Tade on so late? In fact, why didn't he start? Baffling. Also, what was the deal with those substitutions? Davis into right back was a waste - why not put Cox straight in there? And where was Piermayr? Also, Dundee United score and everyone in the ground knows that this is the time to put Tade on. What does Butcher do? Bring on none other than another of his favourites, "wonderboy" Nick Ross, who contributed a grand total of zero to the game. Foran should have gone off - he's way off form and his antics don't exactly look like captain material to me. Sadly though, Butcher's ego won't allow for that. That played a big part in getting relegated in 2009 (the whole Fraser/Esson saga being the main example), and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it will relegate this team again.

Apparently he went with Goodwin at the back to try and mark Tade out of the game.............only for them to come out on the pitch and find that Tade wasn't there!

Esson Tokely Hogg Golobart Gillet Davis A.Shinnie Tansey Tade McKay Hayes Subs - Tuffey, Piermayr, Cox, G.Shinnie, Sutherland, Meekings, Foran Time to rest Foran I reckon. He seems a little out of form and these tirades he does towards other players don't help anyone. Tade comes in for him. Keep McKay as he seems to have something a bit different and I'd like to see how well he'd do with Tade and Hayes along side him.

I enjoyed my first trip to St Mirren Park, but despite the stadium being alright, I can understand when people say that it kind of feels like it could of been plonked there the night before. Of the game, there was no-one that really had a bad game. Davis and Tansey played very well in the middle, though Hayes seemed (apart from the goals), a little quieter than usual. Foran had an okay game, but really needs to lighten up. Going nuts at McKay on his first start over nothing in particular was unnecessary. McKay seems to have something and came into it a lot more as the game went on, but I feel that, as he is more of a Dargo type striker, could do with someone up there with him - he ain't the type to play the lone frontman role. I'd like to see him and Tade start together next week. Andrew Shinnie played well by the way. Of the defence, Esson was his usual steady self, as was Hogg - Tokely is a better full back than centre half. Gillet is a good attacking player, but does seem a little caught out of position at times. Still a decent performance though. I was surprised to see Golobart starting and he seemed to start a little nervously, but like McKay, grew into the game. One thing I would say though, is that at times, particularly in the first half, he seems to suffer from what i would call "Djebi-Zadi Syndrome" ie - "here comes the ball, what do I do with it?!" kind of thing. But as long as he simplifies his game down and cuts down on the dangerous fancy stuff that he did yesterday, particularly in the second half, then he should be alright. Overall a decent performance, especially when one takes into account the conditions at times. Hopefully the club can build on this, but Dundee United should be a much tougher task next week.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the defence has never been the same since Dods left. There's been good defenders that have come and gone and it's had periods of being better than others, but he obviously did something while he was there because it's still never been as good since.

I wonder if the problem with the defence, is that as a lot of teams line up 4-4-2, when ICT play a back four they are marked by the two centre-back with little to no cover. I wonder if a back three would solve the problem (lets be honest, it can't get any worse!). With that in mind I'd go with - Esson Tokely Hogg Golobart Hayes Davis Tansey A.Shinnie Foran Tade McKay Subs - Tuffey, Gillet, Piermayr, Sutherland, G.Shinnie, Cox, Ross Golobart and Tokely to provide the height in defence with Hogg as a kind of sweeper. St.Mirren play usually play with two good strikers IIRC. Also play Foran deeper as he seems to perform better there and give McKay a chance with Tade.

Of course, the club did put that bar into the stadium a while back at the far end of the Main Stand (something I've never actually been in!). Wouldn't it have made more sense to make that a club shop?

There's an old saying that goes "a goalkeeper is only as good as his defence", well I think this season Esson's been far better than his defence and had it not been for him on many occasions then ICT would be in a far worse state points wise than they are now. Dropping him at this time, when stability more than ever is key, would be nothing but downright stupid.

Channel 8 Also, will there be a minutes silence before this?

It's funny what a good voice on the radio will do! I remember a few years ago, Brewster got rid of Barry Wilson and Dennis Wyness and he was absolutely crucified on here. Now, Wilson I agree maybe had a bit more to give, but Wyness was injury prone and had been past it for the best part of three years! Munro and Duncan are essentially in the primes of their career for the positions they play, unlike Wyness and Wilson who were on the way out (at least Wilson was replaced by Morais!). I wonder if it had been Butcher who'd gotten rid of these two, then the attitude would be different? You can't always replace experience with youth, it doesn't work like that. Have you ever seen Meekings at centre-back? No, neither have I. Has Terry even? He might be a good full back but rubbish at centre-half for all we know. Sitting bottom of the league, nah it doesn't matter! And so will his. But to put it in perspective, Wyness's time had come to an end. Wilson's time was coming to an end. McBain's time had come to an end. Golabek's time ended years ago. Duncan and more importantly Munro's time wasn't over. They had much more to give and wanted to give it - and you know it.

Munro is better than Hogg, Duncan is better than Tansey. Even more of a reason why he should of been kept then. So has Munro!

It'll be even worse next season if the current trend keeps up. Make of this what you will, but I have been very reliably informed that Butcher's hit-list ain't over yet. He got rid of Duncan, he got rid of Munro, there's one more left.

I always remember a few seasons ago, in 2006/07 the defence essentially every week (bar the odd the occasion when McCaffery came in as cover and Golabek make one solitary appearance) was - Brown* Tokely Dods Munro Hastings * - Obviously Fraser came in when Brown left. That was the defensive line-up every week and was very similar to the one played the season before.....and the one before that (granted though Golabek featured more often in ICT's first two seasons in the SPL). There was great understanding and awareness there that came with the fact that it essentially was the same line up every week. IIRC outside of the Old Firm, that defence conceded the least amount of goals in the whole SPL that season. This season the defence in the league has lined up as - Meekings Tokely Hogg Gillet Piermayr Tokely Aldred Gillet Proctor Tokely Aldred Gillet Piermayr Tokely Hogg Gillet Piermayr Tokely Hogg Shinnie Piermayr Hogg Golobart Shinnie Tokely Hogg Golobart Shinnie Piermayr Tokely Golobart Shinnie Piermayr Tokely Proctor Shinnie Meekings Tokely Proctor Gillet So out of 16 games this season, there have been 10 different defensive line-ups. That's right, 10! Now there are many places on the park where changes could be made for the better, but of all the places you've gotta get right, you've got to get the defence right. We're now nearly up to Christmas and it's taken this long for Butcher to still make up his mind as what line-up is best, and he wonder why they're leaking goals left, right and centre? Obviously because of injuries and what not, changes sometimes have to be made, but 10 different changes?! Does he actually watch the training, and if he thinks that Proctor should be played as a centre-back then he obviously does not! Consistency is the answer and we had that when we had with a solid if unspectacular defender who'd been here for the best part of 10 years, though with Butcher's stupid decision in getting rid of him, we're a lot worse of.

What I can't understand is no-matter what manager it is at ICT, Proctor always seems to get a game. I don't rate him at all!

Thought the Scotland number 10 had a good game.