bdu98196

Wow, 2 publicly announced attempts by Dundee to get Jack Ross with St Mirren rejecting both now a sudden U-turn back to McCann after only 3 days. Even he must see that he's the runner up prize here or the cheap option.

At least the likes of DUtd have come out and said they are going to back the manager with the same or increased budgets over last year - it would be good if we could see the same to justify our pricing.

Meekings is a good player and has performed well and developed a lot in his time, however he has also been cursed with injury. I do think that a back line built around Brad, Laing and Meekings would develop and be one for the future but I expect JM to want to play Premiership level. If he has a local girlfriend he may just decide he wants to stay in the north and with Ash Taylor leaving the Dons then being honest to see him depart along the A96 wont be a surprise. Sadly his departure is our own fault - firstly for not offering decent contract or one he felt was acceptable, perhaps due to paying for duds like Anier, MacNaugton etc who probably took more than they gave in terms of value and having no contingency budget and secondly due to our failure to stay in the Premiership I doubt we would match his ambitions or offers that he will have from other teams - outwith perhaps Celtic & Rangers I would expect he makes the radar of ever Scottish team.

Hardly news worthy, they are reporting the ones that have left are either out of contract or loans are finished. No shocks in there.

I already give over £300 per season for my season ticket with arguably limited value for money - why would I just give a charitable donation to a business? Giving hand-outs doesn't do anything other than encourage spending outwith your means which means in the future another hand out is needed. If my business cant run at a profit then it will fail - nobody will just donate me money, this whole idea that football clubs should be exempt from normal business practices including balancing of the books is a bizarre one.

So after months of toiling and indecisive action we eventually opt to part company with Foran, yet on the face of it seem to have no plan of action on who to bring in. At least Dundee have decided that Jack Ross is their target after McCann left - they seemed to have a plan. Its a worry that we will no spend weeks floundering around before opting for potential options who in many ways may not be much better than RF. The new manager needs to be part of an overall change in structure, we have Rice, obviously its known there was friction between him and RF but we should have expected more on the park given his experience. We have Shearer & Kellacher who seem to be part of the furniture, yet neither want to or desire to step up in roles. Perhaps they have a place at the club still, but do we need to look at the whole structure including the development and youth teams where we struggle also and need to bring in new ideas and change things up - have we become stagnant as a club throughout.

Without going over old ground I posted weeks ago that we should have looked at the likes of Jack Ross or Darren Dods unfortunately I doubt Ross would be a viable or interested target now. While there are out of work options such as Hartley etc its whether they want the job because the club is of interest or they just need work. Having an ICT connection isn't necessary but someone the players will respect and also a manager whit a playing style that suits our club and personnel. Experience is required but also has to have ambition to drive the club and themselves forwards - not just an institutionalised dinosaur with outdated ideas.

Its a whos-who of nightmares listed here - missed off Walter, Jocky Scott and fat s-Ally just to make sure all the nightmare bingo card was completed

Having been an RF critic, its a sad situation and being honest I had started to accept his staying. Reality is he should have left when we lost 3-0 away to Hamilton in that bottom of the table clash and we were rotten, the last few games this season showed the team can play and fight. With the experience from this season I think RF would have learned a lot and with the right support could have taken us back up. Leaving or sacking now is just pointless - yes we can bring in a new man and new ideas for next year but we are in a position where there is potential free or contract expiring players who we should be looking at and trying to sign, instead we are now after a manager and will be on the back foot to build for next year with possible targets being missed and worst case signed by direct opponents. . I'm sure most will disagree and be happy he has gone but its yet another poor timed and handled situation by the club for me.

He's expensive, has injury issues and above all I don't think he's very good. The value he has returned this year is poor at best and I'd rather see us try to sign the likes of Laing & Brad who are younger and more to offer than someone at the wrong end of their career who cant garuntee playing every week. We need to use the chance in the lower league to blood and establish younger players who can step back up into the Premiership - with the likes of Raven, Tremarco, Esson & Warren we have plenty backline experience and not much youthfulness or pace. Based on our position and finances no player is worth breaking the bank for. Did it once before with a certain Romanian and it didn't really work out that well then.

No.

Even better business model would be to pay players through an EBT scheme and avoid taxes - should give about 10 years of buying players we cant afford and artificially inflated levels of success. I'm sure it'd be possible to get away with it for a few years ;)

Any scheme like this has to be based on fan ownership and percentage of shares, where the investment is just that money put in to buy shares and a stake in the club - not just donations on a charitable basis, but it has to be part of something sustainable. Afterall most of us pay either for season tickets or sums at the gate which given the matchday experience probably rarely equates to value for money so to fork out more just to prop up the club wont appeal.

Kicking onto where, we won a cup and reached 3rd in the league. The season after the crowds never saw a boost in numbers suggesting no matter how successful the team is we cant entice more than the 3k hardcore we have. Where from there could we go - we did reach the cup QF the following season (last year) but it was always going to be a tough ask to retain it although had we played better in either game against Hibs then we would have probably made the final. Is there really an expectation that we should be challenging for silverware and fighting for the league title while having the 2nd smallest busget and probably 2nd or 3rd smallest crowds? Its not a prudent, responsible board that people on here seem to want, its a rich beneficiary a-la Gretna, Livi, Dundee, Hearts but lets all see how those fairy stories turned out in the end. There have been errors in judgement by the board and perhaps mistakes in key recruitment however does that demonstrate incompetence and wholesale change being required - if anything the board have shown in the past what could be achieved and as with any walk of life if you make a mistake you learn from it and should come back stronger. Some fans just have high unrealistic expectations of where the club should be, my issue with the board is a lack of communication and not validating the decision to remain with Foran. We need to see a long term strategy for youth development and stabilizing the club in the community. None of these need the board sacked IMO.

Disagree there, King was average at best, McCart did ok and Billy was decent and as for Cole he was utter shyte in play and attitude. No loan signing set the team on fire or did an awful lot. Personally moving forwards rather than waste money on players we will never see again (although I accept King may have been a plan if he did well we could sign him) - we invest in our own youngsters or pick up young released players on a 2 or 3 year deal. Unless its proven quality on loan, then why waste the money?

The board give the fans the opportunity for free tickets to the game and are rewarded by the lack of respect by the youngsters who took advantage with a pathetic pitch invasion and attempt at a protest. Perhaps if they had any sense of how the world works they would see that not only did they ruin the chance to hear what players had to say. Not a single poster on here calling for the board to resign has presented an alternative option or suggested where the money will come from. Perhaps they need to look at our squad size and distribution of experience to realise the board backed Foran big time with wages and loan signings, perhaps mistakes have been made but I suggest the board other than maintaining faith in Foran have done all they could.

All these calls and post for players to stay and keep a big squad - where do the posters realistically think the money will come from? We now have an aged core team for the lower league? Far too many on here using their 'Championship Manager' experience thinking we can pay money to compete with top tier teams when we struggled being in that league. A basic (small) squad is what we need with some experience, quality and then youth - actions need taken to free up wages Esson, MacKay, Hoban - OFW can leave Raven, Warren, Tremarco - deals to Brad & Laing plus youth - a high earner with injury problems like MacNaughton has to go and we all know Meekings is off Vigurs, Polly, Mulraney, Horner - see who else we can get in as a left sided player is a must. Draper will leave unfortunately. Being honest I'd like to see Doran go too although as his level of return given his cost has been diminishing year on year. If we can get 1 or 2 midfield players then that will enough. The rest of the midfield this year has been dross and the departure of guys like Anier & Cole is a positive. Upfront is the real issue, Fisher should be offered a deal, thouse who think we can afford Billy are deluded. We need a 20 goal a season striker if we want promotion and that has to be a focus. Options of guys like Rory Loy should be looked at IMO. We need to trim excess costs, invest in youth and build not just to get up but also how we will structure to survive in the top league again and move forwards - otherwise we will blow our budget and spiral downwards.

For the poster who had a dig at me, I did actually make my suggestion on a deleted thread. Jack Ross, David Hopkins or Darren Dods but also think it's an relevant point as Foran will stay. The board will think he deserves an chance to get us back up if relegated and as an individual he will think he's learned enough and has something to prove. Whether we like it or not get used to Foran staying, I'm resigned to it so will back him and hope for the best.

Can we start looking beyond posting for Butcher, Hughes, Paterson or any other ex-manager to return, its a tiresome discussion that has been posted so many times its like groundhog day. They came, they did, they might even have achieved, they moved on and now lets do the same for everyone's sanity.

Maybe I was too absorbed in the game, but where was this drawn and announced? Certainly I never saw or heard anything on Sat?

While DUtd may be classed as the big team, Morton, Falkirk & QOS have shown over several seasons there's really not much difference in teams outwith maybe a run away leader with a bigger budget. When you consider how teams like St Mirren or even Dumbarton have turned things round 2nd half of the season plus the bounce effect of Livi and their good young talent its not going to be an easy league at all. Down there you need fighters ready for physical battles and a proven goal scorer - if you have a 20 a season striker you will be closer to the top than the bottom - unfortunately right now I'm not sure we have that on or books. I remember listening to a Jack Ross interview when he was criticised in Jan for bringing in 7 or 8 players but he said to avoid the drop you have to change the mentality through the team which means brining in guys who are unaffected by previous poor results and the pressure of the drop already building - they also need to be characters who want to achieve, point to prove and further their careers - hence guys like Loy, Storie, Smith - all SPL level with points to prove which seems to have worked out well.

You seem to accept that sitting around taking a wage and not actually contributing back is acceptable? In the case of Foran, where was he on match days when injured - not in the technical area with JH learning from him, either up in hospitality or absent. Its fine to say 'involved' with the development squad, but how much they aren't taking on prominent roles, are they working with the youth teams - the messages from CC suggest not - what about community development & involvement, commercial activities or working with their SFA qualifications. Fact is at a small club we should expect our senior players to give more when injured especially those who must be considered top earners as they must realise that by not giving any significant returns its unsustainable for the club. Often we don't even see these guys at the games - nothing stopping them being around the stadium on match days interacting with the fans - they could even be in the shop or foyer to chat with fans, pics with kids or even sign shirts & merch - this is meant to be a community club and right now there's a lot more that can be done to bridge that gap.

^ Agreed, the board backed him with signing Billy along with bringing in Laing, Ebbe & McCart plus last summer we saw Brad, MacNaughton (who wont be cheap), Cole, King, Mulraney, Doumbaye & Boden all come in, that's significant backing IMO. Other than last season when we had 'significant' injuries I don't recall as many players being brought into the club.

Please note our away game to Dundee is moved from Tues 16th to Wed 17th now (incase DUtd have a play off game) - so for those of us who have asked for time off work or made advanced travel plans we get screwed over again for a match that hasn't even been decided as yet. As ever amazing planning from all sides.

Considering how bad we are in the Development league over the last few seasons they aren't bringing anything better to the party than the stagnant coaching team we already have. While we are all focused just now on the first team plight, the performances of the development team are shockingly bad (infact worse) we find ourselves lagging far behind Championship teams who should have lower budgets than us for youth & development teams, yet we cant get it right. This is emphasised by the fact our first team performers can be complacent and knowingly under-perform as we have no depth at our club. Yet another embarrassment which will come back next season to haunt us when we haven't got enough quality at the club to get promoted.