DoofersDad

It was a cup tie Dougal. You either win or you lose. He set us up to win ugly rather than lose pretty. Whilst I was a little alarmed to see Doran was not starting, I think Yogi got the tactics spot on. By playing the way we would like to see the team play we risked being very exposed. They were under huge pressure to win. We needed to stop them playing, get them frustrated and then step up and try to nick one late on. It nearly worked. If the Foran penalty had been given at the end of the 90 minutes (and it was converted!) then we would be celebrating a cup win this morning. It's all very well to say that this tactic was not really neccessary with Pawlett and Hayes out but I don't suppose Hughes could have been certain that Pawlett was out when he selected the team and it would hae been foolish to have sacrificed Vincent and used up a sub in changing the game plan in response to Hayes' early self inflicted injury. It's just a shame that Aberdeen had done their homework on the penalties and held their nerve better than Billy and Greg. Never mind. It was a great occasion and another important milestone for the club. That, in itself is something worth celebrating.

Hopefully Flora will be supporting the winning side this time.

Well, they have now secured the title and McMoist has said that the players have demonstrated a lot of bottle. The club has now released a picture of that bottle.

I think Reefinweedallday asks an important point and I think we should care about the implications we can draw from the answer. I think the first point to make is that our situation is different to Livi, Gretna and County in that their appearances at their finals came out of nothing or as a result of success bought out of irresponsible short term investment. There was a novelty value associated with it so that just about anyone with any allegiance to the team wanted to be part of it and loads of neutrals were attracted to the romance of it. Our situation is quite different, We have developed slowly but steadily since the club was formed and have become established in the higher echelons of the Scottish game. Securing a place in a final from time to time is sort of what is expected of a club of our status. The fact that this year we have actually got to a final is exciting for the fans who watch regularly or just once or twice a season but is not causing shock waves and a "must be involved" sense of novelty among others. No doubt we would have sold a few more had this been the Scottish Cup, but the general message is that the number of tickets sold represents what we might see as the broad support for the club from which regular attendance could be drawn. Should we care about the fact that the number is as low as it is? Well, yes, I think we should. As a very rough estimate I would say we have a core support of around 1,000 who go to most home matches. There are then perhaps another 7-8000 who attend maybe once or twice a year upward. These folk probably add another 1,500 - 2,000 to the average non OF/County gate. If we are to improve gates significantly to increase revenue then it is from this broad non-core support that we can expect increased attendance at games. These folk have their reasons for not coming more often and nobody should criticise them for not coming more often; for some, even coming just once or twice represents a level of sacrifice and we should be grateful they are able to come at all. But if those who get to half the games could get to three quarters or if those who get 1 or 2 could get to 4 or 5 over a season then we could potentially get the regular attendance up another 1,000 or so - but that is easier said than done. If the broader support base was bigger then we would only need a very small shift in their attendance patterns to add a 1,000 or so onto regular gates. The message for me is that the number of tickets sold reinforces what we all already know. We have a small fan base and there is not an easily tapped latent support waiting in the wings. Even with continued development and success on the park we are never going to get regular crowds of 5,000 +. No doubt continued success and participation in the occasional final or two will attract a few more in but the reality is that the club has a low support base and the Board needs to accept that and not plan with inflated expectation of support being generated by success. I think it is doing that very well and the fact that we are in a final tomorrow and nobody is particularly surprised that we are is testament to that. We may be small in number, but the fact that we have reached a final and have got there through hard work and merit rather than bought success or a one off fluke, should make us all very proud of our club. I am sure we will enjoy the experience on Sunday all the more for knowing we have earned it.

Head says Europe and heart says League Cup - and the heart wins! If we win on Sunday and are then in the same position next year, the answer would be different.

I agree with the selection and subs in post 3. It would, however, be nice to see Christie have a place on the bench as he brings something a bit different and he impressed during his brief appearance yesterday. But despite my preferred selection, I think Yogi will start with Vincent rather than Watkins - otherwise, why rest him yesterday? That would leave Ross, Watkins and Williams on the bench. They are maybe a bit too similar to all be on the bench so maybe there would be a place for Christie after all. I don't know which of Ross, Watkins and Williams you would leave out as they are all deserving of a place on the bench at least. Such are the problems for the manager but at least it is good to know that there is real quality in depth at the club now. Whilst we may have worrying dips in form from time to time, I think the longer term omens are surely very good.

Did you even watch the game yesterday. Williams was superb. ??? Care to elaborate your point? I assume it is your statement that Williams was superb. He wasn't! He was better than most but he was far from superb. Had he been superb I think we would have had rather more that just 4 attempts on goal. Collectively our attacking midfied was very poor last night. Williams was simply the best of a bad bunch.

Not too many positives I'm afraid. Clean sheet against probably the poorest opposition I've seen this season is no great acheivement. What is worrying is the lack of penetration up front. To be honest we looked much more likely to score on Sunday against Dundee Utd than we did tonight. Having only 4 attempts at goal is a fair reflection of just how poor an attacking performance that was. Doran gave the poorest performance I've seen from him for a while but to fair to him there was rarely much movement in front of him and his options were limited. Foran had an OK game in defensive midfield and Williams did enough to earn a place on the bench. As often is the case, Ross flattered to deceive - some nice touches but no real end result. I'm not sure why Polworth keeps getting chances. He has potential and plays the occasional incisive pass but far too often he gives the ball away under no pressure at all. If Hibs hadn't been hell bent on giving it straight back half the time, these errors could have been severely punished. I would much rather see the likes of Pepper and Greenhalgh be given more of a chance. However, I suppose we have to be happy enough with a point. With Shinnie, Raven and Vincent rested and Draper, Tansey and Watkins suspended, we were a very much weakened side. I am sure we will have a much improved performance on Sunday but players need to take responsibility in the final third. We are not going to beat Aberdeen by constantly puimping high balls for wee Billy. We need to get the ball on the deck and we need our midfielders looking to shoot.

No, you didn't dream it. Billy also has a sore neck from looking up at all the high balls played to him. Seriously though, if Billy isn't injured we can count ourselves lucky - in the 90th minute Forster went right through him from behind and was lucky to escape with just a yellow.

Last 2 posts absolutely spot on.

Whatever Yogi feels is his strongest team. After a great day out in Glasgow on Sunday the rest of the season will be all about the league. We need to be in as stong a position as possible once the cup euphoria is out of the way and we cannot afford to play a weakened team against Hibs. The only reason for resting anyone is if they are not fit enough to play on Wednesday. Yogi can think about who might play on Sunday after tomorrow's crucial league match. Tomorrow should see us clinch a top 6 spot so we simply can't afford not to give this full attention.

You've just given them the answer to the question

Not a chance that would have stood had it been at the other end. There is a view that keepers are sometimes over protected but that is a foul on the keeper every time.

I think our poor performance has taken away attention from something which I think needs some comment. Watkins' red card was clearly harsh as he won the ball and didn't even make contact with Paton. Paton over-reacted and undoubtedly his behaviour influenced the decision to send Watkins off. Given that Utd were already 5 up and Paton was the person who injured Mckay in a similar challenge earlier in the game (when the referee didn't even award a foul), I have to say, I am not impressed. I trust that Watkins' card will be successfully appealed as Ciftci's was in the League Cup clash earlier in the year. Otherwise it gives the message that we are at a bit of a handicap when their players are apparently allowed to grab our players by the throat but our players are not allowed win 50:50 balls fair and square. I know the referees have a difficult job to do but we need a bit of consistency and we need the authorities to stamp out the play acting whether by instruction to referees or by taking effective retrospective action based on TV evidence.

Let's look on the bright side; a defeat today eases our fixture congestion and we won't now suffer the ignomy of being beaten by a League 1 side in the semi-final

I like the positive thinking vibe but lets start with some positive thinking about a really important league game on Wednesday. At the end of the day, whether we deserve to be at the top table of Scottish football will be judged on where we finish in the league and not on whether we happened to win the lesser of the two cup competitions. Hope you're really buzzing for all of next week and not just Sunday! :ictscarf:

It was a depressing result but don't let that get in the way of the facts. There are still 12 league games left. We have games in hand. One of those is on Wednesday night at home to Hibs which we should win. That would put us 3 points above utd with same games played and 4 behind out of form Motherwell with a game in hand. Our other rearranged game is away to Motherwell so a win there would bring us within 1 point of them and still with a game in hand. We would be just 4 points behind Aberdeen on the same number of games. If we win our games in hand we will be in poll position for 3rd spot and within touching distance of 2nd. We are still very much in the race but lose these games in hand and top 3 will be tough. This is why Wednesday night is such a huge game. I really don't know why everyone is talking about our season being as good as over when we still have every chance of finishing higher than we ever have before.

Brill has a couple of games when his performance is not great and suddenly we drop him - get real. Dropping him would not help his confidence and to suddenly bring Esson back for a couple of key games would put huge pressure on him. If he made any crucial mistakes we would then have 2 keepers with their confidence shot. If Brill is shakey in the next 4 or 5 games then fair enough but given his performance over the course of the season it would be madness to drop him now. If Brill is going to be dropped for a couple of below par performances then who else is for the chop for the final, Mckay?

It's disappointing but I wouldn't read too much into today's result or the fact that it came on the back of a similar scoreline against Celtic. Against Celtic we got the backlash of them having lost their unbeaten run and today I think the fans' focus on the final next week was also reflected in some of the players who didn't seem to have the usual drive and determination. But despite that in most aspects of the game we matched Utd in the first half and were 3 down because of uncharacteristic blunders from players who are usually among are most dependable. We were down to 10 men for all the 2nd half and then down to 9 for the last 20 minutes and yet were never over-run. Utd never looked particularly threatening except when they scored. First half blunders aside, I've seen us play worse and win. The scoreline was highly flattering to Utd and it was just a day when nothing went right for us. Folk seem to have very short memories. Just a couple of weeks ago we absolutely blew County apart with a performance that had everyone drooling and which, despite the scorelines, was way more dominant than Utd were over us today. These were the same players and the same manager. Fact is, we have a decent team which is capable of playing very well but which maybe lacks the extra dimension to adapt when the game plan goes to pot. We'll bounce back and have further excellent victories this season. I do, however share concerns about the 4-4-2. I think it stifles the fluidity of the team and there seems to be a bit of uncertainty about who should be doing what. At times today, Vincent in particular was often in the same place as Foran,Watkins or Tansey and I lost count of the times someone behind me shouted "one of you!". Apart from getting in each others' way, the converging on each other reduced the outlets for passing the ball. This makes Wednesday's match against Hibernian particularly important. It, more than Sunday's final, will show what the players and the management team are made of. We are still in with a very good opportunity to clinch 3rd or even 2nd in the league and that should be our priority. Given respective league positions and Hibs current form, we should beat them. And if we beat them, we confirm our top 6 place which for me, would represent the target of making this a decent season. A win would keep us very much in the league race as well as give us a confidence boost for the final. A dismal performance in front of a dismal crowd could well be the signal to a bit of an anticlimax to the season. Wednesday is almost a "must win" game and just as we need the team to play well, the team needs the support behind them. TBH I am expecting a crowd well below 3,000 for Wednesday night but hopefully I will be proved wrong. Come on ICT fans, get behind your team and come out in force to support the lads on Wednesday! Sending Terry Butcher down the road to Edinburgh in no mood for fish and chips en route would be a nice little bonus.

I wouldn't read anything into the Foran substitution. The game was lost by then and I think it was wise not to risk both Foran and Doran further. With the game gone and Foran's performance not up to the standard he demands of himself he was hardly likely to be Mr Chatty we he came off.

Important point that. Hopefully that will keep the boys fired up and not be distracted by the game the following Sunday. Hibs and Motherwell drawing today was a good result for us because it also means that Motherwell's poor run continues and that improves our chance of a top 3 place. I Know that next Sunday is our first tilt at winning a major trophy and it will be a great occasion but we are still in the main cup competition and in with a great chance of a top 3 league place. Those must remain our top priorities. Going into the final knowing that top 6 is confirmed would be a great morale booster.

Quite perceptive of you....that's the last sausage roll I buy from there... In what is likely to be seen as our best season ever, I never thought folk would be complaining about the icing on the cake.

Just saw this on the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/26488401 Realy sad news for former British number one and daughter of ICT''s first manager. She's clearly got one hell of a fighting spirit and she will certainly need that now. Treatment is improving all the time but that is not a good cancer to get. Let's just hope she can pull through and devote herself to what she recently said she wanted to do - coaching youngsters at the game she loves.

I think what is happening in Aberdeen is more of a reaction to how far Aberdeen have slumped from their glory days than about specific enthusiasm for a league cup final. They are hungry to return to that and see this as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. They need to get the public back in numbers to boost their income and be able to mount a serious challenge to Celtic in the league and to be competetive in Europe. This final is their opportunity to revitalise their support and they have grasped the opportunity superbly and really galvanised the public. On the other hand, for us to get into the final is a great achievement and almost an end in itself. The fact that it is new to us should be sufficient for anybody who might be inclined to support the team to make the effort and go. Of course it would be great if there was 10,000+ but it is still a good number for a club with no history of big crowds. I suspect that should we reach the Scottish Cup Final there will be a much bigger buzz about the place because it is the main cup competition. I would expect ticket sales to be 50% up on the League cup final. That to me is why this Sunday's cup match is more important than next week's.

You might have a bridge but do you have a castle?