DoofersDad

If all these lads are leaving and Hughes is not bringing anyone in, we are going to be rather thin on the ground (and on the bench) next season.

Look on the bright side, at least we're not Hibees.

The struggles off the park have picked up a notch. New criminal investigations according the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27177760

Probably knocked some sense into him.

The sad thing is though that there will always be "businesmen" who will pour good money after bad to support the club and their over paid, under-performing players rather than use the money to pay their own staff a decent wage The fan base remains huge and the income stream will remain well above any other club in Scotland apart from Celtic. Even with very poor management from the Board they will continue to rise up through the ranks which in turn will fuel the income stream. Yes, there will be a few more alarms along the way but as surely as night follows day they will be established as one of the top 2 in 3 or 4 years. Lets just enjoy it whilst we can.

Adams would be perfectly entitled to tell Hamill what he thought of his antics. He may have been out of his technical area but that in no way makes him at fault for what happened. Just because a manager is out of his technical area does not given opposition players the right to assault him.

Backwards is still backwards regardless of whether or not we usually have a second half of the season slump (which I don't think is actually the case). Fact is that we have gone backwards in the 2nd half of this season and did so last season. IMO last season's slump was a lack of confidence caused by a realisation that after the Barnsley fiasco the manager did not actually want to be at this club. But this thread is about Butcher and not the reasons for us going backwards this season. Clearly Hibs have gone backwards more than anyone and after a brief honeymoon period the results seem to demonstrate a worrying (from a Hibs perspective) inability on Butcher's part to get the same performance level and results from the same squad of players as the previous manager did. Presumably there will be a lot of new faces at Easter road next year and unless Butcher can deliver much bestter results pretty quickly with his choice of player I think early retirement beckons.

Whilst happy to have a laugh at Adams' expense, I can't see any fault from Adams in this incident. He didn't decide to fall down, he was firmly knocked down and quite deliberately at that. Had it been accidental the natural action would have been to go to help Adams up and apologise but he just stood over him gloating. Should have been a straight red for Hamill who was also behaving like a complete *rse with his antics with the ball. A yellow for the antics with the ball and a straight red for knocking Adams down.

With that run of form one might argue that they should now be favourites for the play off place. The rest of them must feel that Hibs are the team they must beat. It would be fascinating to see what the reaction at Easter Road would be to relegation. Such a scenario was unthinkable a few weeks ago but is very much on the cards now.

Makes it really interesting in the bottom half, But just think, had it not been for the introduction of the play offs this season it would all be pretty meaningless.

Just a thought about the crowd. Have we ever had so few home fans for a match against the Dons? Aberdeen fans came in good numbers and without them the crowd would have been well down on usual home gates - even for televised games. I can't help but think that some poor home performances of late have contributed to this but would hope that a return to a more productive sytle of play which this game demonstrated will encourage a much better turn out for the final home game of the season.

I quite enjoyed the game. There was a lot to be positive about and it was certainly much better than the previous home game against Motherwell. I think the comments above regarding Tansey are a bit harsh - he has had better games but I thought he put in a decent shift and was unlucky not to score what would have been a great goal. Mention too for both Raven and Tremarco who I thought had pretty solid games. Defensively we were sound but the real positive for me was that whilst there was clearly a desire to pass the ball out of defence, if it needed hoofing it was hoofed without hesitation. The main concern from watching this was Billy. In recent weeks much of the criticism of the team is that we have not been creating chances and particularly for Billy who has often been quite isolated. Well, last night we created a good few and in truth Billy could have had a hatrick and really should have converted at least one. Watkins, Doran and Christie all set him up with glorious chances and he really should have been first to the rebound when Tansey hit the bar. Certainly he worked hard and got himself into great positions but he needs to be putting some of these away. It is interesting to read some of the comments here about this being a poor game because if Billy had tucked 2 or 3 of these chances away, everyone would be cooing about what a great performance it had been from the team. I would agree with others about the difference Christie made when he came on - but it was rather short lived. After he played that glorious cross-field ball to Mckay he had little impact. He frequently lost possession and once even got muscled off the ball by Willo Flood! There is no doubting his talent but I'm, not so sure that he's ready for a start yet. And Adam who? I only realised Rooney was playing for Aberdeen when he got subbed. Full marks to our defence for keeping him so quiet. It might have been a different story if he had the chances Mckay had. That really sums up the game for me.

Disciplinary points, maybe?

5 points

Thanks Davie. I'm not suggesting CJT go to the club and complain, I am merely suggesting that the level of concern on this issues is such that the club should be aware of it. Any successful business should want to know when it's customers are not happy. We may be fans, but we are also the club's customers. Of course, it would be silly to imagine you would go to the Board in response to every little thing individuals may raise on CTO and you have to use your judgement as to when it is appropriate to raise a matter. That judgement will no doubt be influenced by your greater knowledge of what is going on at the club. I am in no way questioning the manager's position, indeed, from what I have seen of Hughes I really like the man and very much hope he succeeds. But without repeating the arguments raised in this thread, I would suggest that there are precious few fans who do not have some level of concern about what they have seen or heard. This thread is remarkable for it's lack of people posting that they think Yogi is doing a great job. There are clearly some who want him gone but I think the majority view can be summed up as "Hmm. Not great so far but fingers crossed it all works out". You may, of course, disagree with my assessment of the mood of the fans and I fully accept that you are in a better position than me to assess it. All I am saying is that if my assessment of the mood of the fans is correct, then it is something I would expect CJT to ensure the Board is aware of. I read CaleyD's upbeat post with interest and sincerely hope he is correct. There are things I like about Hughes as well, but equally there are things which concern me which I don't think can be ignored. I'll give one example - the apparent desire to pass the ball out of defence at all cost. We have lost goals through doing this and yet it has been suggested that it will continue and all that needs to happen is that the players need to get used to the idea and get better at doing it. Let's be clear, there is nothing wrong with hoofing it when a defender is under pressure - Liverpool scored a great goal at the weekend which started with a defensive hoof up the park leading to a swift passing attack, and they are top of the EPL. What is needed is a bit of balance between philosophy and the reality of the situation and of the abilities of players. The evidence from too many games recently is that Yogi may insist on a style that gets the balance wrong. CaleyD's post suggests that Yogi may have the flexibility to learn from mistakes and to get the balance right. If he does, then we could be in for exciting times, but if not ....

What this thread shows without any doubt whatsoever is that, rightly or wrongly, a lot of fans have some significant concerns about some of what they have seen on the pitch and heard off it. Only a small proportion of the fan base contribute to the forum but the numbers coming through the turnstiles shows that these views are widely held and are impacting on the club. Clearly folk at CJT are well aware of this and it doesn't need anyone to specifically request someone from CJT to discuss it with the club for CJT to raise the fact that there is a concern. One would expect that when it is clear that a significant number of folk on this forum have a particular viewpoint / concern, CJT would raise it with the club regardless of whether it is a view personally held by them. Hopefully that is the way things work now so forgive me if I am eroneously picking up an impression that issues will generally only be discussed with the club if their is a personal request or if the issue has been posted on the "ask the club" forum. I would also echo what IHE said about the forum being a place where fans can post views about anything without being subject to personal abuse in response. The fact that a poster has not also personally raised it with the club does not make those views any less legitimate. As long as contributions are within the rules of the forum they should all be welcomed.

You posted an article and took the opportunity to have a little dig at those who have, as you put it, "certain views". My response was simply to point out that those who disagree with those views have also not commented on the article. I have in no way, shape or form defended anyone holding a particular view point. You have then come back and commented on my innocent reply as "just another example of the lack of logic in the manufactured and error strewn "facts" perpetuating from certain people." That's a pretty strongly worded and wholly unjustified attack to which I responded briefly and light heartedly. You have now responded in a way that fair takes the breath away with it's vitriol and rant about things which seem to be completely unrelated to the post you are responding to. "Lazy, spuriously dismissive", not giving "any real thought", talk of things being "branded a lie". Where on earth do you dig up all that from in response to my innocent little observation? And what is all this about the "opposition"? I wasn't aware there were two sides - if there are, can you please tell me what they are and which side you think I'm on. I thought we all wanted what is best for ICT but simply have a wide spectrum of views on how that might be achieved.

Now that is an interesting little snippet. Thanks for posting that.

Some won't have seen it, but it really is pretty standard player toeing the party line sort of stuff. It has, of course, also been ignored by folk opposed to those with "certain views"! "Togetherness" has broken out again and it appears everyone sees the article for what it is and sees no point on commenting on it. If (as some have claimed) the players have no respect for, or fear of repercussions from, Yogi....why would they feel the need to be toeing any party line? Just another example of the lack of logic in the manufactured and error strewn "facts" perpetuating from certain people. Nowhere in my brief post have I made any suggestion or implication that players or Garry Warren specifically "have no respect for, or fear of repercussions from Yogi". I'm therefore assuming your second paragraph is a comment on your first.

Whilst mathematically possible we all know top 3 isn't going to happen. Even if we win all 5 games, we need Motherwell to get a maximum of only 7 points from their 5 games. In addition, our current form is currently the poorest of the top 6. Whatever we do, a top 3 finish is entirely in the hands of others. Much as I would love a little european adventure (even if it did hit the club's finances) I think it is time to cut our losses for this season and start thinking about next with Europe in mind. As I say, I would love a European adventure and in my view, next season gives us the best chance we will ever have. There will be no Rangers and no Hearts to compete with, Hibs are rebuilding and are unlikely to be a threat next season but will return stronger in time. On the other hand, we have our best squad ever and a settled one at that. We may never have a better opportunity for a top 3 finish other than these last 2 seasons when, for various reasons, we have let it slip. If we are going to have success next season it will be vital to get off to a flier and not spend the first round of matches experimenting with systems. By the start of next season we need to have found the right balance between the abilities of the players we have and the manager's philosophy for the way he wants the game to be played. Rather than focus on trying to attain the unattainable this season I think we would be better to use the opportunity of highly competeive matches against good quality opposition to devlop the playing style for next season.

Some won't have seen it, but it really is pretty standard player toeing the party line sort of stuff. It has, of course, also been ignored by folk opposed to those with "certain views"! "Togetherness" has broken out again and it appears everyone sees the article for what it is and sees no point on commenting on it.

If shinnie had been sent off then we all know we play better with nine men. 4-0.

What a boring thing CTO would be if comments were restricted to those "qualified" to make comments! This is a fans' forum and not a managers' professional help line. The views of all, no matter how ill-informed they may appear to others, should be welcomed. In any case, just because you are not "qualified" (whatever that means) doesn't mean you are wrong. Let's keep the diversity of comments going however barking mad they may sometimes be. As long as we respect the right of people to have views different to ourselves and don't respond in an offensive manner, then this forum will continue to be both worthwhile and entertaining.

Great to hear the OGC is going to raise this formally. Don't know where Davie gets the idea that there is vitriol directed against Don. Others can make their own judgement by reading who has said what above. The only thing I would add is to pick up on Davie's point about ICT having signed up to the "see me" initiative. That is commendable, but surely it makes it all the more disappointing that nobody associated with the club apparently did anything to try to repeat a repetition of the chants following the previous County game. There really is little point in signing up to a policy advocating social responsibility if the club then does nothing when a small number of it's own supporters behave in exactly the manner which the initiative is trying to stamp out.

Picture of TB on the BBC website tonight. I hope his red wine is ageing better than him since he moved onwards and downwards.