All this news about POTENTIAL deals is wearing pretty thin. Why don't we just keep things low key until the fish is landed! I fully agree with our stance re wages etc but we really don't need to start talking about "...will be joining us in Italy toward the end of the week IF a deal is done". Forget all this and do our business on the qt so we don't end up with egg on our faces.

The club will never win on this subject.  One minute people are crying out for news, and when they release any news they get slated for not keeping it quiet!!!

It sounds very like that we are struggling to sign either of these targets and it all comes down to personal terms.

Personal terms were agreed with both Hoolahan and Rankin.  In Hoolahan's case it was the terms of his release with Livingston that were delaying further action, and in Rankins case it is his Agents greed that is delaying any further action.

Let's not kid ourselves, we still pay the lowest wages in the SPL (not that there is anything wrong in that) so we are only likely to attract players who are permanently out of the picture at an other SPL club and are willing to take a pay cut, a young player not getting a chance at a bigger club and wanting to kick start his career, a promising player in the lower divisions wanting his chance or our own home grown youngsters where we should be channeling far more resources than we are at present.

We DO NOT pay the lowest wages in the SPL when bonuses etc are taken in to consideration.  Personally I think this is a great system as it gives an added insentive for players to get the finger out on the pitch, and if one player isn't pulling his weight and is dragging the team down and impacting bonuses they will ensure he is motivated.  And as great as the idea is off channeling more resource in to youth development, I think we do a pretty decent job for a club our size.  11 "wet behind the ears" youths wouldn't keep us in the SPL which is where the money comes from to fund their training.

Also if a player is not confident enough in his own ability to accept such terms then I don't want to see him in an ICT Shirt (not directed at any specific players, just a general comment).

I hope we do get Rankin but let's keep it quiet until the deal is done.

To elaborate on the point above, aswell as the club being in a no-win situation with regards releasing news, it is extremely difficult to keep stories on the "QT" these days and even if only small snippets of info get out, it soon all comes together when folk start chatting on the net.

CaleyD wrote

"The club will never win on this subject.  One minute people are crying out for news, and when they release any news they get slated for not keeping it quiet"

Sorry CaleyD but the Club can win on this subject by releasing news when it is FACT. Other clubs in the SPL can do it so why can't we?

"Personal terms were agreed with both Hoolahan and Rankin.  In Hoolahan's case it was the terms of his release with Livingston that were delaying further action, and in Rankins case it is his Agents greed that is delaying any further action"

If terms were agreed with the clubs and personal terms with the players, they would be signed by now. Clauses in contracts with clubs and agents should be sorted out BEFORE it gets to agreeing personal terms with the new club.

"We DO NOT pay the lowest wages in the SPL when bonuses etc are taken in to consideration.  Personally I think this is a great system as it gives an added insensitive for players to get the finger out on the pitch, and if one player isn't pulling his weight and is dragging the team down and impacting bonuses they will ensure he is motivated"

Our Director of Football has confirmed on many occasions that we pay the lowest wages and our players should be concerned if you know what they are earning!

"And as great as the idea is off channeling more resource in to youth development, I think we do a pretty decent job for a club our size.  11 "wet behind the ears" youths wouldn't keep us in the SPL which is where the money comes from to fund their training"

Our youth development is vastly UNDER FUNDED - have a good chat with Danny MacDonald. He has personally had to raise most of the funding to add to the SFA grant. This club does NOT and never has invested enough cash in this area and don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. Our kids are still coached in the main by VOLUNTEERS who give up 3 nights and a Sunday every week! Ask the Club how many SFA Level 4 youth coaches we have? We will very soon need at LEAST one with each SQUAD!  Structured Coach Education, Suitable Training Facilities, Player Welfare, Scouting etc. etc. all costs money and for all the time spent since this club was formed, we have only Grant Munro and Mike Fraser who have come all the way through. This is not intended as a slight as the programme is still running on a shoe string budget and many good players are now benefiting other clubs at various levels. I would agree that we are "doing a pretty decent job" but it could be a lot better with the proper level of investment.

Your comment regarding "11 wet behind the ears youths" is bizarre to say the least and really is not worth further comment!

CaleyD wrote

"The club will never win on this subject.  One minute people are crying out for news, and when they release any news they get slated for not keeping it quiet"

Sorry CaleyD but the Club can win on this subject by releasing news when it is FACT. Other clubs in the SPL can do it so why can't we?

What was incorrect about saying a fee had been agreed with C*unty and they hoped to have it cleared up by the end of the week?

"Personal terms were agreed with both Hoolahan and Rankin.  In Hoolahan's case it was the terms of his release with Livingston that were delaying further action, and in Rankins case it is his Agents greed that is delaying any further action"

If terms were agreed with the clubs and personal terms with the players, they would be signed by now. Clauses in contracts with clubs and agents should be sorted out BEFORE it gets to agreeing personal terms with the new club.

Under the current conditions, where a player has more than 6 months remaining on a contract the club have to get permission to talk to a player, if a club says a fee has to be agreed first, then thats the way it is, whether we like it or not.

"We DO NOT pay the lowest wages in the SPL when bonuses etc are taken in to consideration.  Personally I think this is a great system as it gives an added insensitive for players to get the finger out on the pitch, and if one player isn't pulling his weight and is dragging the team down and impacting bonuses they will ensure he is motivated"

Our Director of Football has confirmed on many occasions that we pay the lowest wages and our players should be concerned if you know what they are earning!

Grassa has said that our basic wage is among the lowest, but bonuses more than make up the gap with many teams.  I am perfectly aware of the level of wages our players are on (with and without bonus).

"And as great as the idea is off channeling more resource in to youth development, I think we do a pretty decent job for a club our size.  11 "wet behind the ears" youths wouldn't keep us in the SPL which is where the money comes from to fund their training"

Our youth development is vastly UNDER FUNDED - have a good chat with Danny MacDonald. He has personally had to raise most of the funding to add to the SFA grant. This club does NOT and never has invested enough cash in this area and don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. Our kids are still coached in the main by VOLUNTEERS who give up 3 nights and a Sunday every week! Ask the Club how many SFA Level 4 youth coaches we have? We will very soon need at LEAST one with each SQUAD!  Structured Coach Education, Suitable Training Facilities, Player Welfare, Scouting etc. etc. all costs money and for all the time spent since this club was formed, we have only Grant Munro and Mike Fraser who have come all the way through. This is not intended as a slight as the programme is still running on a shoe string budget and many good players are now benefiting other clubs at various levels. I would agree that we are "doing a pretty decent job" but it could be a lot better with the proper level of investment.

Your comment regarding "11 wet behind the ears youths" is bizarre to say the least and really is not worth further comment!

OK, so we plough more money in to Youth, where does it come from?  Player budget, which means an inferior team on the pitch (on lower wages than they are already on) - result = relegation = even less money.  We only have X amount of money to spend, and the books have to be balanced, we can't have everything and concessions need to be made somewhere.  I wouldn't argue that our Youth Development is underfunded, I just don't see where we could realistically where (from within the club) we have capacity to raise that funding.  I personally know people who regularly dip in their pocket to give 10's of thousands to youth development at ICT, and will continue to do so for as long as it is needed, so I am aware of how things are.

My comment about 11 "wet behind the ears" players was an indication of where we would end up if we took money from player budget to fund Youth Coaching, as that would be where we would have to draw our team from cause we wouldn't be able to afford anything else.

CaleyD - You obviously have a lot of inside knowledge but it is concerning when you claim "I am perfectly aware of the level of wages our players are on (with and without bonus)."  Personal contracts should be just that, PERSONAL and ALL the players should be asking how you have obtained such information. On the other hand, I hope this is merely a figment of the imagination.  :33:

You also state that  " I personally know people who regularly dip in their pocket to give 10's of thousands to youth development at ICT, and will continue to do so for as long as it is needed, so I am aware of how things are."   I was honestly unaware such people were so generous to such a low key section of the club but if they do invest such sums they must be major supporters of the Club and I am surprised they do not get more prominent exposure. You should use your personal connection and encourage them to invest even more in such a good and essential cause :clapping04:

I really didn't think my post would have attracted such a comprehensive reply CaleyD but thanks anyway for taking the time to keep me right.

Interesting debate between caleyboy and CaleyD.

A couple of minor points to add:

1. Players wages --- as a shareholder of the company I am entitled to know what players are paid as is any shareholder.

2. Investing in youth---- we plough money into the Highland Academy as well as bring our own through. Also we have players who have the correct level of coaching qualifications.

Interesting debate between caleyboy and CaleyD.

A couple of minor points to add:

1. Players wages --- as a shareholder of the company I am entitled to know what players are paid as is any shareholder.

2. Investing in youth---- we plough money into the Highland Academy as well as bring our own through. Also we have players who have the correct level of coaching qualifications.

Whoever told you that a shareholder is entitled to know what individual employees earn is having you on. Why don't you ask Mike Smith what Darren Dodds earns and see what reaction you get!

On the Youth subject, again as a shareholder, ask the club exactly how much they "plough" into our Youth Programme and the Highland Academy. I doubt if they will tell you but if they do and tell you the truth, I don't think you will make such a statement again.

With regard to players having the correct level of coaching qualifications, tell me what players coach our youth squads 3 nights a week and attend their matches on a Sunday? Sorry, I will answer that myself - NONE! Research the SFA coaching qualification structure and you will understand what I am talking about.

Caleyboy, I get sent the clubs annual report which states how much is spent on wages. It also states the number of employees. Divide the first number by the second and you get an average per person. Nobody said they knew what an individual earns but they can easily work out the average.

Nobody is having me on. As a shareholder of any company I can, if I so desire, demand a detailed breakdown of all spending. The shareholders own the company so they are, in effect, the employers.

Caleyboy, I get sent the clubs annual report which states how much is spent on wages. It also states the number of employees. Divide the first number by the second and you get an average per person. Nobody said they knew what an individual earns but they can easily work out the average.

Nobody is having me on. As a shareholder of any company I can, if I so desire, demand a detailed breakdown of all spending. The shareholders own the company so they are, in effect, the employers.

Believe what you want to believe about shareholder rights Alex. As I have previously suggested, why not ask the club for a detailed, individual breakdown of the players and management earnings and see how you get on!

I am surprised that you don't  have a reply to my point on Youth investment and the coaching subject?  :comp01:

I do apologise to everyone as this has probably gone way off topic now. Sorry

You know this, I couldn't care less what the players get paid.

Let's get down to the football.

You know this, I couldn't care less what the players get paid.

Let's get down to the football.

:clapping04: :clapping04:

I do apologise to everyone as this has probably gone way off topic now. Sorry

We now have the techology to deal with these things  :001:

You know this, I couldn't care less what the players get paid. Let's get down to the football.

Totally agree.  :clapping04: :clapping04:

As a shareholder, I have a right to look at the accounts as presented at the AGM and as Alex has stated, you can work out the average from there .... It has been widely publicised in the press that all our players are within a small range in wages (true or not ?) and also that we have one of the lowest basic wages in the SPL. It has also been reported that when you take bonuses into account our players wages can be substantially enhanced so the rough figures are not exactly confidential.

However, on the other side of the coin, as long as the club executives and directors are running the company efficiently (which I believe they are), I have no desire for these rough figures to be replaced by details of the exact amounts earned by any player as i believe that - shareholder or not - some details of employees contracts should remain confidential between those employed to run the company and the contracted players.

The fact of te matter is that, even taking bonus payments into account, our players are still, on average the lowest paid in the SPL.

However, he gap between ourselves and the liles of Kilmarnock, Dunferemline and Motherwell is nawwowing all the time as our wages creep up and the others, at best, remain static.