Scotty

should get your not inconsiderable erse over to a Toronto game my friend .... here you would be feted as a passionate supporter generating atmosphere rather than a troublemaker .......

seems to be a regurgitation of earlier stories ..... would love him to stay but doubt we will be able to match other offers he might receive.

This whole thing is a can of worms ...... with every person / organisation being able to wiggle out of it somehow. After reading most of the comments on here over the last couple of days there are a few points I would like to raise. 1. UEFA / FIFA have declared that stadia should be all seated to qualify for certification. This is true whether you are in Scotland, England, Europe, South or North America or anywhere else in the world. [bMO Field in Toronto for example has just been opened as a 21000 all-seated stadium. All seated bacause it has to be as it is a venue for the U20 world cup in July] 2. I believe the relevant 'article' in UEFA's statutes is Article 16 - which says the following [li]1 Seats for spectators must be individual, fixed (e.g. to the floor), separated from one another, shaped, numbered, made of an unbreakable and non-flammable material and have a backrest of a minimum height of 30 cm when measured from the seat.[/li] [li]2 The use of temporary stands is prohibited.[/li] [li]3 The stadium must be equipped with refreshment and catering facilities for all spectators in every sector of the stadium.[/li] [li]4 In addition, the stands must meet the following requirements: [li]Category 1 - Matches can be played before standing spectators.[/li] [li]Category 2 - Matches can only be played before seated spectators, with any sector for standing spectators kept closed (bench seating of any description is prohibited and will be regarded as standing accommodation).[/li] [li]Category 3 - Matches can only be played before seated spectators, with any sector for standing spectators kept closed (bench seating of any description is prohibited and will be regarded as standing accommodation).[/li] [li]Category Elite - Matches can only be played before seated spectators, with any sector for standing spectators kept closed (bench seating of any description is prohibited and will be regarded as standing accommodation).[/li] [/li] 3. Whilst UEFA statutes do dictate that stadia at SPL level should be all-seated they do NOT actually say that the supporters have to sit in them - common sense might dictate this but the rule doesnt actually say it !!! 4. However - the SPL DID issue a press release/memo on the matter in 2005. This can be seen on the site at the following link: 'Its a Stand but You must Sit'. It basically says that local authorities might remove safety certifications for areas of grounds where clubs dont enforce the policy. Again this does not appear to be a 'rule' but more of a shot across the bows of those who would ignore this. so thats the legal or 'suggested' mumbo jumbo out of the way ....... onto the day in question. Again, I have gleaned my opinions from what others have said and not from experience so I may be off the mark a little. please feel free to correct me where I am wrong :004: 1. The normal 'match commander' was not available. The chief exec stands in for him. Knowing how things work at ICT, he was probably told to do it at the last minute and quite likely to be unaware of things that John Sutherland may have allowed to pass without sanction such as the first trial of a singing section that could reasonably be expected to be 'boisterous'. 2. In his defence, he appears to have been following the rules and 'suggestions' from the SPL and others. But he may have to shoulder the blame for allowing the application of these rules to have been too rigid !! 3. We have had an issue with the stewards at the TCS for YEARS. Complaints of harassment, poor treatment, lack of courtesy, arrogance and other things have fallen on deaf ears for those same number of YEARS. The perceived omnipotence of certain stewards seems to be at the crux of many problems within the TCS. 4. As we were not in the control room, we do not know how firm the CE told the stewards to be but from experience we know that certain ones when given an inch will take a **** site more than a mile. The singing section appears to have been a godsend for those particular ones and it distresses me to hear stories from fans of treatment that would get them a criminal charge for Breach or Assault had the roles been reversed. THIS MUST BE ADDRESSED ONCE AND FOR ALL WITH FAIRNESS AND CONSISTENCY APPLIED THROUGHOUT THE STADIUM. If you are applying one rule, then you are applying it to all at every game. You cannot be selective (eg. Old Firm). 5. If you are going to nail supporters for standing up in a designated singing area - its very difficult to get an atmosphere going when sitting down regardless of what anyone says to the contrary - then FORGET IT. You may as well not bother and just hand out a packet of murray mints to everyone entering the stadium so they can rustle the papers as they open them. ============================ I agree with others who say 'standing areas' should be brought back and it is within the power of clubs and national bodies to do this quite easily. UEFA dont say you cant have them ... only that you cant use them for certain games. ICT are not at fault for the 'rules' imposed on them but there was obviously a problem with the application of them (and this is NOT the first time we have been able to say that) so they DO have to shoulder the blame for at least a portion of this. Whether more blame lies at the door of the CE or whether it is the fault of the stewards, supervisors, the fans themselves or a combination of all parties remains to be seen/investigated and I urge anyone with details to email the supporters trust so it can be a matter of record and also so that the answers to these questions are not swept under the carpet. Finally .... just for contrast As I mentioned on another thread - I was at Toronto's game this weekend against Chicago. 20000+ fans in an all seated stadium. Firstly, the stewards at BMO Field are pleasant, polite and seem to be there to enjoy themselves while assisting fans where required or giving them a nudge to behave if required (ie. I saw one chap quite politely tell a supporter who lit up a cigarette that it was not allowed and could he please put it out or pop outside via gate 3 to finish it - he did it firmly but with politeness and there was no hint of trouble). For the duration of the match every single supporter in the 'supporters section' (about 6000 of us) was standing up. Its all-seated but there were no batallions of stewards wading into the crowd to force us back down, instead, they just watched the crowd to make sure there were no apparent safety issues, which there were not. When Toronto scored the first of its 3 goals the stadium erupted with everyone dancing around and for the rest of the game the singing and chanting got louder and more 'active' - again the stewards did not feel the need to quash this uprising. They simply kept watch to make sure there werent actually any real issues to deal with. They did move in when a streaker tried to invade the pitch, and also when several fans went onto the pitch at the end of the game but they did not wade into the crowd to pull people out for simply enjoying themselves ...... The Chief Exec has been 'out there' for the last several months meeting supporters groups, turning up in bars where supporters were having events or watching away games and generally asking the fans "what can we do for you ?" ... isnt that refreshing !!!

yeah - nice one Richard and Rory ..... heard the in-stadium bookies took a bit of a hit on this game too more for the result than the scorers though.

happy birthday Andrew - and thanks for all your help with the match previews this season.

Gravy - did you make it to the sheaf ? was sure I saw you heading back down Bathurst as I came out onto the patio .... shorts and a white ICT top perchance ? you were too far away to hear me shouting to you. I threw a quick site up with photos from the games if anyone is interested ........ TORPICS.COM

Yup - yesterdays game had everything ..... 20000+ crowd again, the seat cushion frisbees when the team scored, 4 goals, 2 sendings off, a streaker (almost), as well as the pitch on fire when some ersehole lobbed flares onto it .... but through it all the stewards in the supporters section were courteous and friendly and did their job well ... which was to ensure our safety and help us with any queries we might have as opposed to laying down the law and acting like someone important.

and then watch the FBO's being handed out to those that dared to create an atmosphere

Point 1 - please dont use such a horrible font/colour combination. Point 2 - please read other threads first before starting another on the same subject - there are quite a few already about yesterday and the events of it. as for the content - tend to agree with you (once i could read the blue text on red background !!!

very sorry to hear all this .... a great idea spoiled by over-officiousness and jobsworthiness somewhere along the chain of command. I might add, that I have just come back from Toronto FC's game against Chicago at their sold out 20,000 seat stadium. My tickets are in what is labelled 'the supporters section' which is basically the singing section and although you are supposed to be seated, not a single person in the whole of that stand (about 5000 people) was chastised, castigated, ejected or arrested for enjoying themselves ..... might be one of the reasons TFC have sold more than 14,000 season tickets and have a two year waiting list for new applicants already !!!

Hastings just scored :) sorry for the lack of updates today - just got internet service back - its been down since 7am this morning :008:

We (me and Cdn Girl) are in for next season as well ...... we can setup a paypal thing on the site if it makes it easier .......... once Don gets clear of the Highland March he may have a little more time and be able to do it the same way as the donations we setup on there.

I disagree. Barry is a skillful player and the only thing that might be holding him back is attitude/temperament. I think the best is yet to come from him and CL is the man to bring it out. Hate to say it but DUFC next season will be a lot different (and better) than in previous seasons.

no need to delete - doesnt sound like a rumour my take - for scouts, dont think Hagi and Popescu are a bad shout !!!! if they can find some players who are half as good as either of them then we will do well ...

you are probably right Clacher

the "Sloop John B" i presume ...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_KY_d9MQv8

:015: :015: - the first pipe is unlit and the other is blowing bubbles ....

..... got a feeling those will be the only 'spirits' on display

If the website said it was to pay club staff or other costs at the club I wouldnt be bothered but it clearly says "Of this annual membership fee, £27.50 goes into the club and £7.50 towards the staffing, day-to-day running, maintenance and upgrades to the MyFootballClub site. The average dating website charges £10 a month - MyFootballClub works out at 63p a month." bear in mind that 50k members at 35 a pop is 1.75 million ... when you read the other FAQs, it is clear that they are at least being up front about how much is going into the club when they say "50,000 members is the starting point. This generates a Purchase Fund of £1.375M, which will be enough to buy a lower league club and buy players. New members will be able to join after the takeover, to help the club grow." 1.75 million, less the 375k for the website and you get the 1.375 purchase fund they talk about .... also, new members will be able to join so the 375k could end up being a lot more ..... Other than someone like Google, Microsoft or other behemoths I just cant see how it takes 375k to run a website - whats there is pretty simple and what they want to do is no huge technology leap either. not saying its a scam, just that someone may become very wealthy because of it.

what you mean this one ..... :sherlock: or perhaps this one ..... :sherlock2: :004:

answered in the FAQ on the site - no, not liable for any debt. think the idea is interesting in nature, just very sceptical about how the money is split - still cant fathom how 375K per year is needed for website maintenance.

20+ goals, even in Div2 is a decent strike rate and at only 22 years old he sounds like a very good prospect. Like some others, I would be tempted to try and get him signed up before someone else does. I am sure CC/DP have probably had him watched, especially after going to the lengths of giving him a trial earlier in the season. If he signed and failed to produce the goods he could be farmed out on loan or sold to County .....

Fraser Tokely McCaffrey Munro Hastings Hart Duncan Rankin Paatelainen Dargo Bayne Subs - Dods on for part of the game so he can say 'farewell' - he's been professional and deserves a send-off 2 youngsters on for last 15/20 if things are going well - Wood / Duff as Zander has already had 1st team action Wilson / Black on if things are going pear-shaped .... 80k per place is a lot of money to lose by blooding youths.

A price freeze has been announced for next season and interestingly, the press release also talked of 'moving supporters' to accomodate the new singing section which suggests an area in the North Stand has been identified as there are no season ticket holders in the location where it is being trialed this weekend. !!! http://www.caleythistleonline.com/index.ph...&Itemid=175

sorry - got this from someone at the club earlier today but didnt have a chance to post it Please note that this game is ALL TICKET. Ticket prices are as follows and can be purchased from ICT Ticket Office: Adults/OAP £10 Under 16 £2 Wheelchair £0 Carer £6 St Mirren are not participating in the Under 12 passport scheme. also - to clarify the all ticket 'contradiction' .... normally (as has been said already) tickets for games like this are sent to the club to sell prior to the match with the remainder (if there are any) accompanying the team down the road on matchday. Those remaining tickets are then available for matchday sales which are conducted away from the turnstiles - at a ticket office for example - with the supporter finally entering the stadium with a ticket thus satisfying the all-ticket requirement. Think its only the OF who dont conduct matchday sales this way.