dougiedanger

Once again, a shockingly lenient 'punishment' handed down for gross misconduct at the new club.

Maybe it was an exciting game.

And as the holder of a United Kingdom passport, because the UK is the country in which I was born, I am assuming that - along with others like minded - I would be entitled to retain it since I should not be obliged to surrender it in the event of the majority of voters in my local area of the UK deciding that they want to separate from it. Churchillian, CB, Churchillian. Oh, yes.

Probably East End neds that are bored, neglegted and do not know any better. Unfortunately the East End has massive social problems with high youth crime rates. It would be unfair to associate such an incident with Celtic FC much as I despise them. Their fans were excellent towards my son and I today. Glad nobody got hurt. They were nice to you but you despise them?

That your flegs flying behind ye too?

Heard it was the notorious lead singer from The Fall.

A piggery would be fit for pigs FFS.

Think this will be glossed over.

Never had you down as a Daily Mail reader, L. Big shock that.

So that's Laurence, Dougal and Banners in the No camp, quite the unholy alliance.

True, the Scotland squad worries me more.

Interestingly too, the Rangers seem to be on a one-way trip to administration.

Who you backing L? Norman Tebbit "cricket test" type question.

You are right with your first sentence Laurence If you go through life , whether it be at work, or with the girls, or anything else worrying about being popular, what are you? I have always said, " be your own man, think for yourself, and believe in yourself". If you get ridiculed for your beliefs then tough. You are entitled to have your beliefs. Anyone who watches Westerns knows lynch mob mentality never works. I am no Rangers fan by any stretch, I was brought up in highly Catholic Lancashire by Irish nuns, I sang " Hail Glorious St. Patrick ", in assembly at school every morning. I was taught to detest protestants above all else. I just feel this Rangers business, has gone on long enough. It is not good for football in Scotland, It is not helping the top division, It is not helping Glasgow. I can't see how it is helping anybody. I think the sooner we get back to the status quo , the sooner Scotland can get a national team to be proud of. I can see that young men glory in a fallen giant, we all had a good laugh, but how long before we realise we have created a false set up. As Douglas Bader, told the Germans " Rules were made for fools, and the guidance of wise men ". Maybe the men are not wise, or they implemented the rules without guidance. I am not the oracle, I just say it as I see it. Don't know how to tell you this Laurence, but Rangers died, went out of business, the big L, kaput. There is no status quo to go back to, and who would want that back anyway? Most of us are relishing the moment and looking forward to something other than the past of sectarianism and outright cheating.

It is a disgrace that the Rangers had to play into the wind at the weekend, haven't they suffered enough?

Surely this is a dilemma and not a paradox, Laurence? Anyway, happy birthday when it comes.

This is a summer thread CB.

Well, I would vote for Oddquine, and do appreciate her robust, fact-filled style.

Freedom from living under a government that the country did not vote for, that is run by and for an elite that grows richer and more powerful by the day. Freedom from sending our children to wars that mean nothing to us, from spending billions on those wars and the weaponry they require; freedom to decide what your own economic and social priorities are; and the freedom to take responsibility for those decisions. Those kinds of freedoms. At the same token, England has had to put up with Labour when they have been extremely unpopular there - I think they should also be ruled by the party they vote for - again, that would preferably be under federalism but I do think they have every right to complain about the last 15 years of unrepresentative government more than Scotland (80s Thatcherism in reverse). England voted for Labour in those years, if they hadn't done so, there is no way Labour would have been in government. And the version of Labour they and we got was one set up to please the Home counties.

That's a surprise, Dougal--I thought you were against mergers, especially where there is one powerful, overbearing partner, and another smaller one that loses its identity in the merger. Still, it's nice to know the good people of Nottingham are so het up about all things Scottish.

You already live in a pretty free country. Struggling to see what more freedom there will be. Is a Scotland in closer ties with the EU than the UK is willing and with the Bank of England as the keeper of it's monetary union really independant? If England changes the interest rates, Scotland will have to jump but with less consideration paid to it's needs. And with such a large competitor next door, will Scotland become a much less desirable place to do business? It's not about blind bravehearts but about fiscal sense. It's not so simple, so I'm undecided. For me, it's mostly about a more representative government. That's why I'm much more in favour of devo-max and even more increased federalism. Power at the most local level. Below that of London or Holyrood. So, neither option especially appeals. The case isn't simple for me, so I'm still undecided. Freedom from living under a government that the country did not vote for, that is run by and for an elite that grows richer and more powerful by the day. Freedom from sending our children to wars that mean nothing to us, from spending billions on those wars and the weaponry they require; freedom to decide what your own economic and social priorities are; and the freedom to take responsibility for those decisions. Those kinds of freedoms.

Thanks for the reports RiG.

Disgraceful from the Tims, almost as bad as when they had that "Islam" banner at the Scottish Cup final.

Surely people must know whether they want to live in an independent country or not. Waiting for others to convince you either way is no real excuse for looking inwards and asking yourself: do I want to live in a free and independent country or not? It's quite simple, the rest will take care of itself.

Any updates from today v. Sunderland?