Heilandee

I like to think my moral compass is as finely tuned as the next mans (or quines) but to suggest Dundee FC "trashed the incomes" of companies to survive is nonsense.Yes, the board once again gambled recklessly, but the culprits are long gone as the legal system does not hold them accountable and I'm not sure being morally outraged and refusing to support those left in a fit of indignation would benifit the existing creditors or current employees at the club,not to mention the many businesses who still benefit financially from there being a successful (or at least surviving) DundeeFC.(I would have left for good had De Stefanno been appointed!!) Your memory seems a little selective in who's been there,was the Clydebank take over by the liquidated Airdrie FC who reformed under the same directors as Airdrie United not far more morally reprehensible? Motherwell have also been there in the recent past and have risen back to the dizzy heights of euro football in Wales not to mention the 55 clubs in English top flight football who have been through the administration process....... Clubs been through administration sadly there are also scores of companies going into administration on a weekly basis current admin listings

Your quite right D,we were fortunate regarding few call offs due in no small part to the desperate efforts of supporters clearing snow and ice at 2 games to ensure they went ahead Apparently this is going toward "footballing debt" as they are counted differently to other creditors. I am not proud of the creditors list and as mentioned, know exactly how it feels to be shafted for outstanding debt via a CVA, but hopefully Bryan Jackson along with others will have ensured all dealings are done within the regulations ( whether you think these are moral or not is a different issue) I do agree with Alex that this really is the last throw of the dice though and any future financial wrongdoing will certainly see the end of Dundee Football Club This guy makes some valid points ,but again much is speculation and info gleaned from forums and newspaper gossip,it never fails to amaze me how many legal and financial experts spend much of their time on footy forums!! http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=10999

Cannae get the hang of the multi quote thing!! but ..... "Sorry, but I don't care who the administrator was or how well respected he might be, but if you are overseeing a business that is in administration then continuing to run it at a loss is not ensuring that creditors are going to get the best possible deal. What's more, I fail to see how running at a loss can be considered "ensuring viability". the fact is their was room for further cuts, and cuts that would not only have brought the club into break even but might have actually seen it make a few quid....money that could have gone to the people who were due more than 6p in the pound. What's more, the footballers would have been guaranteed their money at some point under the league rules in regards to paying footballing debt. Instead, Dundee FC have effectively held these players and paid them from the pot that should have been earmarked for the creditors. They got into the mess they are in by putting performance on the park ahead of business performance, learned nothing, and continued to do the same whilst in administration....instead of paying what they couldn't afford to win the league, they have been paying what they couldn't afford to avoid relegation.....that's giving the 2 fingers to the 25 point deduction as far as I am concerned." Not sure how much of that is fact and whats speculation,the administrator as i understand it is duty bound to get the best deal as he sees it for the creditors,we all know football is results driven and had we not been able to compete,it would have become obvious fairly quickly there was no chance of survival, crowds would have plummeted ,thus revenue,and any chance of recovery pretty much gone, which,with reconstruction on the horizon could have been terminal and may still be, but now we have a fighting chance and crowds are growing each week. Stirling i'm sure will reap a decent payday next Saturday on the back of our current run, not to mention many Dundee publicans who would have had a field day/night last Saturday,i'm pretty sure they are pleased the CVA went through and Saturday trade from the football with the thousands of pounds it generates weekly,will now continue, Also, many companies will now continue to trade, (on fairly strict terms i'm sure) which would also have disappeared. As i understand it the "football debt" is still to be covered in full and is treated differently from other creditors,which i'm not altogether comfortable with, although i'm a bit vague on this and i'm open to correction if you know for sure, many on P&B and other forums seem to be well versed all aspects of company administration just now. "I dont view us in any way as victims, and we certainly deserved a sterner punishment than previously for entering administration for a second time,but what i do disagree with is the judge and jury being a group of people who have an obvious vested interest in the outcome and can make up punishments as they see fit. Now that stinks!" "We've had this discussion before, Dundee FC were signed up to the rules as a member of the SFL/SFA and made little or no moves to change the situation prior to going into administration so don't have much room for complaint when they are held to account by it. Now that it looks like you are coming out the other side, it will be interesting to see if you continue to fight for a change to the system. If I'm honest, it's probably the fact that there's few signs that lessons were learned the first time round, and even fewer are being learned/taken on board this time round. Performance on the pitch continues to be put ahead of all else and even throughout administration this has been to the cost of others. The fact that other clubs will have witnessed it all and seen Dundee FC come out the other side with barely a scratch does little to deter them from doing the same....in fact, being able to wipe out the vast majority of your debt whilst maintaining a competitive squad and overcoming a 25 point deficit could almost be seen as encouragement for others to continue taking the risks they do with the finances." And we'll probably still be having it for years to come,as long as those making decisions are from competing clubs,surely an independent body is required for resolving these annual debacles,whether administration,promotion or other irregularities that crop up

Caley100, I've never had any bother from stewards whilst in the away end at TCS, even when pretty boisterous,but have had grief in the home end where they seem to be overly officious with the ICT support

Sounds like oor neebors were having the same problems yesterday Stewards at Tanny

TheKnowledge, yer post sure made me laugh out loud and of course you are correct in that the heavy handed authoritarian stewards will always win out,hugely frustrating as it is and happens everywhere to one degree or another, our own fine examples on both sides of Sandeman street being amongst the worst in the country and I watched Raith fans getting ejected for enjoying themselves and trying to create an atmosphere on Saturday. I consider myself law abiding,with self control and as such I used to go along and watch quite a lot of games as a neutral but coupled with cost, an unsavoury incident at TCS a few seasons back means i no longer tolerate being treated with disdain as a paying customer, so chose to spend my disposable elsewhere and were it not for a long and engrained loyalty would have long since ceased to attend football in Scotland at all.

First and foremost,you'll get no argument here that the list is shameful and most supporters i know are outraged that this debacle has occurred again,i don't know many who see the CVA as a victory but sure, it's a massive relief it went through. You seem surprised at the number of creditors,for a business the size of Dundee Football Club i don't see it as surprising at all, and whilst in no way trivialising any debts,more than 50% are under ?1000,I'm sure most clubs have list of creditors similar or worse at any given time, the CVA i was involved in as creditor was a far smaller company and had 58 business creditors. Not sure where you get the idea 2 fingers was given to the 25 point deduction,the playing squad currently down to 10 first team signed players, is a massively depleted version of the squad who were getting beaten (with no disrespect ) in August,from Brechin and Stenhousemuir under the previous management partnership,no one could have foreseen the resilience and determination Barry Smith and Rab Douglas would instill in the squad and with inspired trialists (FFS bringing on a 36 year old striker who hadn't kicked a ball in anger for 3 years!!) to score the winning goal against the league leaders is Roy of the Rovers stuff.Had we "taken our punishment" and laid down, still many points adrift at the bottom i suspect much of the morale outrage and indignation at our "cheating" coming out just now would not be so venomous. The current running and financing of the process is in the hands of the much respected Bryan Jackson,who, i would guess, is best placed to see the whole picture and i'm sure got the best deal possible under the circumstances,for the creditors whilst ensuring viability of the club as a business going forward. I dont view us in any way as victims, and we certainly deserved a sterner punishment than previously for entering administration for a second time,but what i do disagree with is the judge and jury being a group of people who have an obvious vested interest in the outcome and can make up punishments as they see fit. Now that stinks!

Posting at this time of night, surely pasta yer bedtime?

me! I bet you win!ha ha Can you fly if you're in traction? Ach, you ask so nicely PMF, but sorry, old caley girls getting it

Worked fine on Safari for me....who wants the top if i win the trip?

Many happy returns to you and yer tattoo ya old soak

We covered the same groond Davie,these are all my memories as well,EX Harris,(left 76) Frews,(the first bar wi a unisex lavvy having just the one,we still meet at his new gaff on Starthmartine road pre Dens) Mrs Mennie ran a tight ship wi Connie and Calum, the best barman in the toon ,arab ***** and sadly gone, meh old man had the paper shop across fae the Balgay bar and VG store next door, Peddie street and surrounding was my paper roond, happy days, anyway better let this threed get back on Topic,mebbes catch ya for a pint one day,hope yer team win the night!!

We were practically neebors Davie,I lived in the flat above the carpet shop at the corner of Ure Street looking on to the Hackie and attended Hawkhill primary, now renamed Blackness by heathens on the cooncil!! First pint in the Sinderins bar and chips oot of Bennadetti's all sadly long gone,anyways, ah the best whoever ya choose to follow ,good to see a bit of real humour and banter

Davie, dear Davie, ye lived in my hoose But ye really must ken that yer telling half truths, for eh died wa'h back in 1902 yer team wisnae born then,the Hibs?eh say who? If eh was still aboot in this day and age, without doubt tis the Dee i'd support and engage for tragedy was meh forte ye'll ken and there's plenty oh prose ower at Dens for meh pen Yer correct wi the Gellions ,a cracking wee haunt, eh went there wi meh pals,to inspire, no to taunt, for the teuchters were gents who loved humour and thinking, but way oot in front was their talent for drinking. Eh'll end this wee ditty wi meh thought for the day Cheenge teams?support Caley? Eh'm sorry, no way, for much as eh like that fine team by the sea There's only one team, for me, thats the Dee! With apologies to William Topaz McGonnagal

Ahem...... http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/division-one/2010-2011/form-table/full We're top oh the league and we're no.... :tears: ...and to keep the thread on topic, i'd be Dee-lighted to come along for a day oot to Hampden if ICT get there

Frustrating, but he just doesn't seem able to close out the crucial shots,the amount of unnecessary errors when easy winners were on was disappointing,still, onwards and upwards, hopefully if he keeps knocking........

DEE'S LEGEND MACALPINE!!!!!! Only for the amount of abuse he used to take ( very well I may add) great character but Arab *******',and yes his lad won at Nairn

Charles qoute fae other thread..."My main problem with golf, apart perhaps from some of the fashions they wear, is Colin Montgomerie since it goes against the grain to see a lot of money being made out of playing a sport by someone who is - in a word - fat." I don't quite get your ire against Monty for being fat, overweight,I can understand not liking him because he is arrogant,self centered or boorish, but think this may just be a PR thing and he just comes across poorly, as everyone i know who has spoken to him say he is a top guy in real life.That apart, there is no doubting his huge talent and skill at a sport where surely, there is no question about the skill level required to hit a ball several hundred yards into the smallest of targets and also stamina levels and mental toughness required to focus and compete for 5 hours a day,4 days in a row.Will you be going along to spectate yourself Charles? you really should give it a go, you might just enjoy it,and if you get the bug and fancy a wee shot,gie's a shout and i'll take you out for a knock,and won't wear meh tartan breeks

i'll take this conversation across onto the golf thread to save dragging this one off topic.........

Charles,Ehm interested to hear yer take on the Scotish Open (golf) being hosted locally. You have never hidden yer disdain for the Royal and Ancient game and it's participants but surely you must be supportive of the obvious benefits to the area,and will you be brushing up on the rules to run a wee column in the Highland News

Ach,Dundonians are used to Perth folk trying to take credit for our endeavours! Sorry, is that teuchtarist?

Fookin excellant,fingers crossed for Sunday that he can finally get over the line

I presume it goes back to Caley being referred to as "the Rangers of the north"

I was thinking along those lines too until I noticed the killer line in the newspaper - all the teams have access to an extranet where they could check that the players have been registered. So the "it was in the post, honest" line was no longer a reasonable excuse. If they had made a minimal effort they could have seen for themselves if the registration was acknowledged and if not, contacted the SFA to check. Victims of their own ineptitude really. Ach , i know, and just reading this,the SFA are quite right in nailing these things down, just wish they had this clarity, decisiveness and continuity of punishments in all areas ,still gotta feel sorry for wee teams who's administrative staff are probably part time and doing there best......... Competition rules were recently modified by the SFA after Dunfermline Athletic were expelled then subsequently reinstated to the competition last season, meaning The Shire have no right of appeal. Rule 39.1 (b) of the SFA's handbook states: "Where a club is found to have named within an official team line a player who is not eligible to participate in the relevant match in the competition pursuant to the registration procedures and/or the disciplinary procedures, then such club will be ejected from the competition. "Neither the board nor the secretary shall be entitled to waive or modify the application of this rule in any circumstances."

:laugh: