Oddquine

Equally off-topic...edited it out. When both screen and specs aren't as clean as they might be, I tend to assume all marks are just dirt. (I think this is tirst forum I've ever been on in which you can edit your post so long after it was first made).

The "story" is utter garbage. 1. I don't think the PM gives a sh*t about Rangers or Scottish football. 2. Even if it were true I don't see any possible way he could benefit politically. 3. Even if he could, what could he actually do? Nothing. Its a matter for various independent institutions like the FA, SFA, UEFA and no doubt the courts. 3. Note the complete absence of any facts or sources in the story. An unnamed source says this has gone all the way to the top, FFS! To be fair...when was the last time Cameron engaged brain before opening mouth?

Is this only if we vote NO? Almost worth voting NO if it will get rid of the OF from Scottish fitba forever! (only joking!) I want to point out there is no connection between the outcome of the referendum and their admission to EPL. Just Cameron's sudden interest is a bit suspicious, does he really think that's all we want? Just another Union sound-bite...if anyone cares to consider the Mirror reliable in the first place? Tbh.not quite sure what influence on the vote that Rangers and Celtic shifting to England would have, unless every supporter is going to shift south with the teams and not vote at all...in which case it would more likely help the YES campaign than the NO one. Can't see any logic in Downing Street interference....but then, what logic is there ever in ideas the UK Government as a whole entity comes up with.so why expect Cameron to be any more sensible than his cohorts. How many in Scotland who like football support English teams as well as their Scottish /local ones....Spurs was mine in my teenage years, though I'm not that bothered about English football now,....but I never considered attending a Spurs game..so where they played was never a problem, I was happy enough to go "YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS! at the radio or on reading the Sunday papers.....though that was before the plethora of footie on telly. If punters do footie in general....,and not one specific team only....., then they will find a local team to support on Saturdays....the Wee Rangers may do well out of the busloads who head south to Glasgow regularly to support Rangers from Caithness.though not sure they would appreciate the vocals. And maybe Wick Academy could change their name to Wick Celtic and pick up some from the other travelling lot! . Kinda wonder if we are going to get the border controls/passports crap, already mentioned in the media, pushed even harder...so we think we would need a passport to see a Rangers/Celtic game in future. That would mean that Westminster (including some of our own representatives) think we are even nastier than Ireland......and deserve much more penalising because we haven't done bombing and shooting to get our way. Ireland fought their way to Independence.and got, in exchange.....,no borders within the UK, so no border controls or passports; votes in the UK even before they joined the EU, and re currency, they were able to use sterling/Irish punts on a 1 for 1 basis until Ireland decided to change it....which was when they joined the ERM in 1978....so they were allowed to do what Westminster Unionists say Scotland can't do and still be considered independent, for fifty or so years after the became an independent country in the eyes of the world. And that is what is the problem with the NO campaign.....there has been to date, no cogent reasons offered for staying in the Union which are any less pie in the sky than they claim the YES campaign produces...no crystal ball on either side ...but the main difference is that the NO Campaign reasons are all extremely negative..while the YES campaign ones are positive, because the YES Campaign thinks we are all capable people in Scotland..and the NO campaign thinks we are not without someone in charge telling us what to do.. Edited to remove rogue apostrophe!

Is this only if we vote NO? Almost worth voting NO if it will get rid of the OF from Scottish fitba forever! (only joking!)

Did you go to the School of Hard Knocks before you went to the University of Life? Can't say I've noticed a lot of difference between the two.unfortunately!

Why don't you do "University of Lfe" cliches? I know I shouldn't do troll feeding ......but, imo, the University of Life is not a University which gives everyone the same options or outcomes as a degree does (or did, once upon a time)..so it does not negate the necessity of empathy and the ability to walk a mile in another person's shoes....something sadly lacking in our politicians nowadays. The University of Life is the real world...too many of our politicians have never lived in it.

Ha! Predictable as ever, Mrs Nope with her favourite tactic (bluster is the best form of defence) Don't put words in my mouth. Maybe one of those nice teachers could give you a short course in logic, though I doubt you really need it. Any fool knows that there's a world of difference between "knows little about anything" and "knows everything" - i.e. they're not collectively exhaustive, to use a posh phrase I thought I would never need. However, if you persist in your ludicrous assertion that holders of ANY hard-won professional qualification can "know little about anything" (and please spare us any cliches about 'University of Life' etc) then I can only refer you back to post Just shows how well teachers teach, then......I did logic as one of my subjects in my sixth year in secondary school (rather enjoyed it, too)......why else do you think my mind is so weird? I thought my teacher was ace, btw...but you may think he was incompetent. You a teacher...or related to one...just out of nosiness? Tbh, I was thinking more of primary teachers nowadays who have to be all things to all subjects, which appear to be increased in primary school with every new government, rather than secondary teachers who know a lot about their specific subjects. But then.politicians with political degrees and economists with economy degrees and bankers with banking type degees/qualifications know a lot about their subject..and what good has that ever done for the punters they consider know nothing? I'd hazard as much good as having a primary teacher who puts the wrong spelling of a word on the blackboard ten times for the kid to copy down and learn for homework..and get the homework back with the teacher's spelling corrected by the kid's parent.. I don't do "University of Lfe" cliches....and I'd advise not asking me why I don't.....because that will engender another essay!

So am I. Outrageous, prejudiced, gratuitous nonsense. Nope............I did say some and not all.....or are you trying to tell me that all teachers know everything? Really?

I've been unemployed...and I'd not have had a problem working for my benefits....but I would have had a problem working for big businesses like Tesco, Poundland etc. It's not a lot different, imo, to the working tax credit set up.....both are predicated on adding to the profits of big business at taxpayers expense.....both for the big business doing the employing....and the big business doing the placements. I'd have been happy to do voluntary work for charities/local councils on the lines of Community Service etc though....much more useful doing stuff that charities/councils can't afford to do anymore as the government cuts back on funding everything which isn't pensions, wars and military equipment than do what firms who make millions in profit could easily pay someone to do. . Absolutely agree with this but why make it compulsory. A willing volunteer is better than two or more conscripts. They are doing compulsory to appease the red-tops and those who whine about the undeserving poor..and so they can pay companies to find the jobs and keep on-sides with big business for a nice sinecure come the day when they have no job themselves. Knee-jerk reactions to whiners and taking the easy option re targeting is what the UK Government does best...in fact it seems it is all it does...which is why our life is generally a tale of lurching from bad to worse with the occasional u-turn. Have to say I don't have a problem with compulsory...provided it isn't a compulsory "you will do this because we say so" but a compulsory "these are the options, what would you prefer to do, given you have to do something."

I've been unemployed...and I'd not have had a problem working for my benefits....but I would have had a problem working for big businesses like Tesco, Poundland etc. It's not a lot different, imo, to the working tax credit set up.....both are predicated on adding to the profits of big business at taxpayers expense.....both for the big business doing the employing....and the big business doing the placements. I'd have been happy to do voluntary work for charities/local councils on the lines of Community Service etc though....much more useful doing stuff that charities/councils can't afford to do anymore as the government cuts back on funding everything which isn't pensions, wars and military equipment than do what firms who make millions in profit could easily pay someone to do. .

What would you say were the major potential pitfalls with choosing Independence? Serious question, I'm undecided. I've taken some time to think about that, weighing my answer against the potential pitfalls of not choosing Independence and I find that the potential pitfalls are much and such the same either way. Currency, economy, defence, employment, etc... all have variables either way but at least if we have a Scottish Parliament deciding how each issue is dealt with we can be a bit more confident that the best solution for the Scottish people will be found. I realise that answer won't help you decide and I can't help that but maybe a football forum isn't the place to look for the answers. http://www.bettertogether.net/ http://www.yesscotland.net/ I will post a few links to pro-independence websites too but I don't know of any pro-union websites. I apologise for this but I suggest you turn on the telly or buy a newspaper for the latest scarestory. http://wingsoverscotland.com/ A blogging site. http://nationalcollective.com/blog/ Arty farty slant on the debate. http://www.newsnetscotland.com/ I have found this to be fairly balanced and although pro-independence the arguments they make are very well researched and well presented. My daughter told me tonight she wants to vote no. Today she was told that the post would stop in an Independent Scotland, she got this from a teacher (any relation Laurence). A friend also told her we'd reintroduce the death penalty. And that is what we are up against....misinformation and Unionist wishful thinking promoted all over the "unbiased" BBC and the biased newspapers, I am horrified that a teacher is allowed to talk crap to students, though....but maybe not, when you consider that some of them know little about anything...but they do have a degree proving it.

I'm voting yes and nobody will convince me otherwise. I've been waiting for this day for about fifty years...since I was in 4th year in Forres Academy..

When has Whyte ever been out on loan? what i mean is he will keep going out on loan like Morrison I would have assumed that keep meant he had already been on loan at some stage?

Has nobody but me noticed that the home grown under-20 players are not perceived as nearly as good as under-20 loanees and signings from English teams? Much more sensible, it seems, in the Butcher mindset, to improve English loanees than to improve our own young players...after all an improved loanee will possibly get an English team more money. when they move on...so we might get more of them to improve.....while we, in the meantime, dunt our own kids with no improvement....or return to our coffers. I think everybody but you has noticed that today we have acheived a top 6 finish for the first time in the club's history. Butcher must be doing something right don't you think? I noticed the top six....but to me that isn't the be-all and end-all of football. It is nice, to be sure....but not essential to my support...if I was only going to get enthused when my team is winning/doing well, I'd not be a Scotland supporter...would I? You will, I am sure, excuse me if I wonder if he couldn't have done pretty much as well with the home-grown under-20 players he had already signed on sweeties rather than signing players from English clubs, on undoubtedly bigger wages. That is something we will never know, of course,,,but if the home-grown under-20s are so crap...why are we paying wages to youth coaches who appear to be completely incompetent when the players they deem decent rarely/never get their bums on a first team bench..and if they do, rarely get their bums off it and onto the pitch.....while laddies from elsewhere arrive today and play tomorrow?

We don't really have an under-20s, if it was intended to be a replacement for the under 19s to allow the local lads to improve and allow the facility for some injured players to get match practice/fitness.....but we do have a quasi-reserve team which just happens to be composed of the maximum allowed over 20s in any game, the maximum number of signed to the first team under-20s in every game and the minimum number of local lads in every game. I kinda wonder what is the point of dishing out money to pay our youth coaches when 99% of the kids they bring through the ranks to under 20 level are only there in case some first team player from an English or other club isn't available to play. Oddquine why do you think the club do this? I can only imagine it is because it is felt the kids coming in bring something different? But, excuse me if I think nobody knows if the kids coming in can do something different when our own kids have never had the chance to show what they can do to illustrate the difference required.

When has Whyte ever been out on loan?

Has nobody but me noticed that the home grown under-20 players are not perceived as nearly as good as under-20 loanees and signings from English teams? Much more sensible, it seems, in the Butcher mindset, to improve English loanees than to improve our own young players...after all an improved loanee will possibly get an English team more money. when they move on...so we might get more of them to improve.....while we, in the meantime, dunt our own kids with no improvement....or return to our coffers.

We don't really have an under-20s, if it was intended to be a replacement for the under 19s to allow the local lads to improve and allow the facility for some injured players to get match practice/fitness.....but we do have a quasi-reserve team which just happens to be composed of the maximum allowed over 20s in any game, the maximum number of signed to the first team under-20s in every game and the minimum number of local lads in every game. I kinda wonder what is the point of dishing out money to pay our youth coaches when 99% of the kids they bring through the ranks to under 20 level are only there in case some first team player from an English or other club isn't available to play.

Should think Pikey and Tink/Tinkler would be just as unacceptable as Gypsy and variations of that. Out of interest, does it take a complaint by a punter, or a TV/Internet watcher, to engender an arrest...or can the police arrest someone just because they (one of the police) hear them, even if nobody objects/takes offence?

Industrial? Have they got that far yet? This side of the county has, we even have TV. Not so sure of the Wick side though I got telly! Honest! Listening to it as I post! (computer in wrong place to watch it, but I know all NCIS/CSI stuff off by heart anyway) And I'm Wick side....if not actually in Wick .

IHE.....I have you on ignore, though I do occasionally check out your posts, and 99% of the time when I do, I think, the man (if you are a man. which I beg leave to doubt) does have great difficulty with talking sense. In this case, kindly interpret As the last post was made by the most beautiful sounding rescue bitch PM fer a slightly larger than large shirt but you could smuggle away a few big fish in it as well. Because I don't understand it! Does anyone else? If so, please interpret it for me.

Jesus wept.....why give the arseholes of Scottish football any impression that they are more important in the great scheme of the SFA/SFL, than Elgin or any other Division Three club? Are we all fecking sheeple who unthinkingly believe The Rangers PR that they did nothing wrong, didn't shaft Scottish football, didn't buy their preeminant position in the Scottish Leagues over decades by spending money they didn't have? Way I look at it is that NOBODY cares about Scottish football. not the SPL, the SFL or the SFA..........ICT or any other club....all anybody cares about is the profit they can make from Scottish football.

Terry appears to think we can. It appears, from where I sit, and knowing feck all about football....but just doing logic.....that the future footballing careers of the loanees are much more important in Terry's estimation than getting a basic settled core CT squad and bringing on our own (or reasonably local) kids who just might stay with us and not use a season/part of a season at ICT as a CV benefit to move on elsewhere as additions. The opportunities for Gavin, Shane, Nick, Martin, Liam and every other kid signed to the full squad/under-20s appears to have been subsumed, to their detriment, by whatever he has promised the clubs who loan him players re how much he will improve them for their squads or their possible resale ability to benefit their parent clubs.....and the one year contracts, which are not renewed, he signs others on? And tbh, that is why I am no longer a "happy clapper"..because I think that Terry is going for short-term gold rather than long term sustainability......though whether that is due to his own mindset or dictat by the ICT board is a moot point.

Errrrrm....much the same as anybody who runs/takes part in a charity event in the memory of any person they loved who has died......research, help, support for others in the same situation? Do you do empathy at all?

Likely not...but we didn't win and the 18 year old who lost it for us was a Marsella pick, endorsed by Terry,,,and not one of the homegrown youth players. I feel for Roberts because I think that losing a match as a result of his failure is going to do bugger all for his confidence going forward....but I do wonder why he was picked to take the penalty in the first place......I really do! And slating the lad and pinning sole blame is going to boost his confidence? Get a flippin' grip! I really cannot ever come to understand folk who pick the negative out of any situation, good, bad or indifferent! Particularly those who pin blame in such a manor as you have done in the above. For the entire season so far we have been fantastic, and the lads were so so close to making all our dreams of a first major final come true. 4 defeats all season, 2nd in the SPL, still in the Scottish Cup, a chance of Europe, a chance of a top-six finish - and you pick on an 18 year old for missing 1 effort on goal!!? Disgracful... I'm not slating the lad, any more than anyone else on this thread has been, read back through it....but I do wonder at a management who chooses to let an 18 year old take a penalty in a score or fail drastically situation in a cup semi. . If I am slating anybody at all, it is the ICT management for letting him take the penalty...not Roberts' performance in the taking of it. Having spent Saturday afternoon listening online to the match and reading the BBC Live updates, I am horrified at the yellow card level attracted by ICT players...and I'm not about to accept that, yet again, the referee was biased given he red-carded a Hearts player and we couldn't take advantage of that. When I watched footie regularly in the late 1960's in the Highland League, the one thing all of the players appeared to have been taught was how to foul without making it blatantly obvious that you were fouling.. You can read my post as you want to read it....that is certainly your prerogative....but I have not picked on any 18 year old any more than anyone else on this thread has since he missed his penalty.....I repeat read the whole thread and not just respond to my post as if nobody else has ever posted. My original response was to cal234ey and you quote my second response to old caley girl, resulting from my original comment following her comment on my my original response to cal234ey.