Oddquine

Problem is the newco does not think they have no right to the oldco's honours...or even, if you are to take any notice of Ally McCoist, the money whatever was passing for Rangers "earned" in the SPL last season, which by rights should go to the creditors so royally shafted, but are being claimed by newco, as they perceive themselves as oldco reincarnated pristine fresh and untainted......as in Not only are they withholding our SPL prize money for last season – they won't tell us how much it is. Does the man have a brain with which to bless himself? Though I'm not holding my breath, the whole honours thing, at least, could be sorted if an EBT investigation found oldco guilty of breaking the rules, because, from all I have read, one of the very few thought out and laid down penalties any element in the football hierarchy have thought of putting into place ahead of being shocked into immobility by unexpected occurrences, is the one which says the standard penalty for teams contravening the single playing contract requirements is that every team which included players for whom they broke that rule will be deemed to have lost every game in which that/those player/s played by 3-0. That should pretty much wipe out all honours won by Rangers between 2001 and 2010. In fact, seems to me, if they had been found out at any time between then and now, they would have been relegated to SFL1 at the end of the season in which they had been proven to cheat. And if the SFL had the same rule (I don't know if it is an SFA or SPL one) that may well have nipped their tax evasion scam in the bud....and we might not be here now. So should those in the Scottish fitba hierarchy, who did know about Ranger's EBTs, such as those who were personally benefiting from them, not be dismissed under gross misconduct auspices? Campbell Ogilvie, for example. Not for accepting them for themselves...but for not flagging up that Rangers, by using them to cheat the tax system were contravening the rules of the entity which was employing them. Or are they all stupid enough to think that, if they were being paid "under the counter" and happy to accept that, they were the only ones? Having said all of the above, I am 99.995% sure that Scottish football will manage to fudge everything and resolve nothing to anybody's satisfaction, given the practice they have had since the four horsemen of the Apocalypse came riding in on the day Rangers entered administration. Nothing done will solve anything to Newcos satisfaction unless they have dictated what is to happen (which is, unfortunately, imo, the most likely option). Newco appears to have sprung in full irrational whining mode wielding the sword of entitlement and the shield of the money to be made by sectarianism, from the loins of one of the two biggest problems in Scottish football ever.

Re sending more sponsorship if you have already done the initial players sponsorship bit via the link provided.....is it OK just to send whatever, as long as it is a multiple of £10, and marked as player sponsorship direct to the email address provided in the original link....and if sent as a personal punter initiated donation does anyone know if it will attract the £1 on £10 charge the official link does? I have in the past made donations in US dollars, and had the option of paying the charges myself or taking it from the amount I was sending, but kinda assumed that it was a charge for currency conversion and paid it myself, but have never noticed an option to pay charges when sending money in £ sterling so always rather assumed there weren't any.

I don't think the problem is the legality or otherwise of the EBTs. The Football authorities would have no say in determining that, though it is probably something which has already been looked at by HMRC. . The SFA’s Articles Of Association state 12.3 Furthermore, all payments, whether made by the club or otherwise, which are to be made to a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded within the relevant written agreement with the player prior to submission to the Scottish FA and/or the recognised football body of which his club is in membership. The EBTs were not declared, and therein lies the problem. It's about breaking the rules laid down by the Football Authorities, not breaking the law. By not declaring the EBTs to the Football Authorities, however, they were able to hide them and thus tax was avoided......but whether that was the real reason for setting them up in the first place is a moot point.

It would almost have been worth £80 million to get Rangers consigned to the dustbin of life...but the irritation is, they are still here practically unchanged.

Aw no, you promised....... :lol: :lol: Nope, I promised not to discuss team tactics, offer team selections and any other football playing oriented item which requires knowing what I am talking about re the modern game. I didn't promise to stop pontificating. I don't have to know anything about any of the above to have an opinion on oldco Rangers/newco whoever they are today.,and the rank incompetence of the Scottish football heid bummers.

Tbh, if Newco was prepared not to consider themselves, not to act as if they are, and not to claim the history and titles of Oldco, I might almost be able to wear Oldco being treated like every other company which goes into administration. After all it appears to be the rule in the UK that companies can duck out of their responsibilities with impunity, leaving many smaller companies in dire straits. But that does not generally mean that from the ashes of the old company springs exactly the same failed entity but with a different management, the same staff, and everything else which has delineated the company for its whole previous existence intact and untouched, including all sponsorship and TV rights.. But Newco needs to be considered as oldco reincarnated, sprung like a phoenix from the ashes....otherwise they'd have been facing starting from the very bottom.......as in entering the Southern League to learn their trade and acquire the required qualifications to join the League, which would have been the situation if all they had come in and done was buy Ibrox, Murray Park and the car park, and hadn't included the players, the SPL share, which technically was not in the direct gift of the administrators, the sponsorship and TV rights contracts etc. And that being the case, because Newco's whole corporate strategy is predicated around being Rangers oldco..they can't simply accept only the benefits the oldco cheats have accrued in the past with stolen money....but also must accept at least a very large chunk of the penalties which are likely to accrue to oldco. Wish I could believe the Scottish Football powers that be would make them accept that..but I don't. Logically, either newco is not oldco......and have no football history. Their only real connection with oldco, if they were to be considered as other new companies are, is that they own the bricks and mortar assets of oldco Rangers. Apart from that, they are a completely new company..and are now sitting in SFL3, albeit in a provisional situation, That, imo is an undeserved concession which was forbidden to Airdrie United when it found itself in the same situation. or Newco is oldco, in which case, they have to accept responsibility for oldco actions, make the necessary reparations and accept the responsibility and the consequences..in return for the continuation of the history and sectarian crap etc. or as Newco appears to prefer, they are oldco when it suits.....and newco when it doesn't.......so in oldco mode they are entitled to call themselves Rangers or a variation on that theme, are entitled to hold on to the history, the titles, the fans and are entitled to claim, in their opinion, the money which accrued to oldco for the 2011-2012 season...and in newco mode, they do not have to accept the full player embargo originally applied to oldco, they are not prepared to accept any penalties which might accrue to oldco after the EBT investigation and most definitely will not accept any title stripping if the EBT investigation finds oldco guilty of buying their titles over the last decade......and in hybrid oldco/newco mode they have been entitled to be a shoo-in to the SFL, even if not at the level at which they felt entitled......which to date, appears to be the nearest thing to a real penalty which has been received by either entity. The man is an entrepreneur, not a person in touch with the world outside business.....and views Newco as a business to make the shareholders money. When was the last time a business took any notice of any but its corporate shareholders. To him, allowing the fans any right to a say would be to admit that customers were more than just cash cows existing only to making him a profit. Let's all prove him wrong!

I would agree that wholesale change is needed both in structure and in the people who are running it. Perhaps giving fans who as an example Jonny Hayes showed their passion by trying to start a fight with opposition fans for no reason other than their following a different team cart blanch to have a say may not necessarily lead to the outcome the more reasonably minded are looking for. Sorry....don't quite understand that last paragraph after the first sentence.

Wondered where the cops were, given the very definite sectarian singing. Thought that was illegal now? Were there many arrests? That's where I have a big problem with oldco-Rangers supporters, whichever team they are supporting atm..the level of complete irrationality, bile and just downright arrogance they employ. They are, by far and away the nastiest and least intelligent supporters (en masse) in Scottish Football today, and have been for years, a complete embarrassment to decent Fitba supporters.

I was just reading that. At least it will show 'The People™' that he does have the Rangers mindset, "if you say or do anything against us it must be bigotry, it can't be because we did wrong can it." They all make me sick. And are doing themselves no favours with thinking punters. Has anybody read Ally McCoist's latest self-serving whine.here........http://www.heraldsco...ignity.18276006 The only dignity stripped from what used to be Rangers is the dignity they stripped from themselves.......by never expecting to be found out cheating every other club in Scottish Football so they could eternally scream with hate-filled faces "WE ARRA PEEPUL!" and girning when they were found out when they spent more than they could repay. And then they continued to strip all dignity, with the efforts of the administrators to remove Rangers responsibility for anything, and failing that to their efforts regarding ameliorating Rangers responsibility for everything...and girning when that didn't work. And then they continued to strip dignity by thinking they could have the cake of a Rangers unchanged and untouched, history, titles, silverware etc, a position in the upper echelons of Scottish Football..because "WE ARRA PEEPUL!" and, in their opinion, a helluva sight more important than every other team in Scottish Football........and girning because, despite their thinking that they are entitled to a free pass to do what they like without consequences, they are the only ones on this earth who think that they are is important in real life as they are in their own minds. I fervently hope they are not going to get off scot-free, though I hae ma doubts given the frankly cringe-inducing reports from those running Scottish Football at all levels....but they shouldn't. Does the history the Newco insists they have bought and paid for and should always have not include the rampant long-term cheating? I do have to say that I can agree with McCoist re the complete and utter incompetence of the SFA hierarchy.....and I'd include the SPL and SFL hierarchies in that as well. Maybe about time there was a Scottish Football Fan Facebook page entitled......KIck out all the Arseholes running Scottish Football now, and elect people who actually have the ability to consider that Scottish Football is not best served by Arselicking sectarianism for money. Fan power might have as much effect as it did with the relegating TheRangers/Newco to SFL3 (if they manage to get there permanently). Got my own opinion as to what is liable to happen next season without any fan input re a rejig of Scottish football, with the same heid bummers in charge..and it doesn't bear thinking about. Rant over.

Pretty accurate.......they are all tits.

Doesn't sound as if the Rangers sectarian mindset has changed. Doesn't augur well for Scottish Football in the future, any more than it has in the past. Very well done to Brechin......a team paid sweeties gave a team paid silly money a darn good game, not pretty maybe..but it certainly wasn't the walk-over I'm sure The Rangers supporters expected, given the "when we lift the Ramsden Cup" chants early doors.

And Dundee isn't United...........so?

The Rangers is what they have chosen to call themselves as their official name. That is the one at the bottom of SFL3. Nobody forced them to do that. So why whine at those who call them their stated and self chosen name? And, to be fair, until they actually acquire a permanent SFL licence, and become an official SFL Football Club......they can call themselves anything they like......as we can all call them anything we like.

Been watching the game. Ally McCoist's face at full time was a perfect picture!!!!!!! Hope Brechin can stick it to them in extra time.

Hmmmmm i come in peace and my club and fellow supprters get called "a feckin circus full of wild animals and clowns" Friendliest fans you'l ever meet in any league,we may be small and few in numbers but we make up for it in passion IHE is an acquired taste. Every forum has at least one who thinks rude snide remarks equate to a joke, as long as a Lol smilie is appended....and who sits back and waits for a bite...which he usually gets.

From Green : That's another SPL wage on an SFL3 income. Wonder how long it's going to take us to hit administration this time?

Nope......I am as old as I say I am..which is three months too young to get pensioners rates for a season ticket this season. Tbh by that late in the sixties, I likely wasn't about to be pushing a pram with a wee cheil and all essential accoutrements in it down to the local Highland League Ground...so am probably remembering more the later 1950s and earlier 1960s. I do kinda remember the Celtic game as being my first and and my attendance started to reduce after the North of Scotland Cup winning game in 1966-67 and eventually petered out almost completely. So I'd guess my mindset is fixed in those years because that was when it was most real to me. But maybe it's too late to learn.......beginning to think it is from yours and IHE's posts. And maybe it would spoil my enjoyment of a game if I was watching it from any level of critical knowledge. After all.look at how much I pontificate while knowing nothing about football......could you all hack my increase in posts if I started thinking I did know something.

Now that is an example of the reason I go and when I read match reports and team selections on this forum. My regular fitba supporting was in the days when you knew exactly to what position a number equated....and you could even reasonably work out who they were meant to be marking/kicking the crap out of.. Oswell was 9...so how come Ross was playing behind him? And where has the front line gone? In my day, the midfield was numbers 4-6...and 7-11 were forwards. The only hole was the one the manager kicked the first person to be sent off into before urinating on him. Maybe why fitba was much better fun. Anyone care to do me an idiot's guide as to interpretation of current fitba thinking (if such a description is not dignifying it overly) so I can at least visualise what is being talked about. And pretty please, IHE...don't you bother responding, because I am already completely muddled..and your interpretation of just about everything makes me go and .

In which case have SFL not jumped the gun including Sevco and removing Dee? Sounds as if Oldco are running true to form......no share until them and Newco get their own way. Last I heard was that they hadn't agreed a licence and were still talking (with mutterings on the side about a provisional licence for Brechin game and continuing discussions next week) . Maybe still talking should be read as Oldco/newco are still threatening. Shambles, shambles........and the heid bummers still have jobs. Unbelievable.

Dundee not in list of SPL teams, purporting to be a list of season 2011/2012...but a space where oldco used to be . But Barry Smith is in list of 12 SPL managers. No Dundee in SFL 1 THE Rangers in SFL 3 with all oldco's honours, and history...and as yet no sign of having an SFA licence. So everything as clear as the usual mud in Scottish Football! Maybe change the thread title to Is it Dundee.and move it into the black hole currently occupied by Doncaster, Regan and Longmuir

Maybe on trial for a definite first team contract. Maybe signed initially as an u-20. Should think, given the lack of squad numbers, all the boys used pre-season are "on trial".

If I remember rightly at 10, though I'm not guaranteeing that. Edited to say....Checked my memory (forgot I had the paper), and if the Groat does listing starting squads from 1 to 11, then he was 10. Report here http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/Sport/Football/Inverness-Caley-Jags-held-to-a-draw-by-Academy-25072012.htm

Shaved off my beard last week.but the finger remains the same. IHE!

Mahonio and I could form a North Chapter of the Away Fans club/group. I'm sure I could get into Latheronwheel in time to jump on the back of the hired tandem he will pedal from Thurso..and continue pedalling to Inverness as I sit behind him, feet on the handlebars, rehearsing my regal wave..as in bags me as heid bummer. But seriously........think that is a really good idea. Shame there aren't enough of us up North (as far as I know) to take part at some level in the same kind of thing.

That sounds very sensible and a good enough idea in that case. I always read that stuff before I bin it....at least do if it is a leaflet as opposed to something in an envelope...don't tend so much to bother opening them......the return address gives a fair idea what it's about. That's to a very large extent my philosophy as well, but to me, ramming down my throat is an unsolicited phonecall, or door knock...not a bit of paper shoved through my letterbox. Guess it's horses for courses. Prefer, myself, to window shop or research on the internet.,,,,which is why I tend to look at shop windows and sites without prices....and move on without entering.