Oddquine

What or who is Nandos?

I despair. I really do. I see a player who has been playing part time football until the age of 27 as a signing that might be for squad depth. I certainly won't be expecting him to walk into the team and i'd like a couple more players with a better CV at the club looking for a starting place but i will give him his chance to show what he can do. If he performs exceptionally well and earns a regular place then great, if not he'll be the back up player that we need and what we have all expected from him in the first place. Do you? Why doesn't that surprise me? I have never read any football forum so packed with glass half full with a crack in the bottom fans that it is positively depressing. It certainly isn't particularly positive in any other way. Clearly never been on P&B then I have, believe me. It at least has lighter moments.

Hope the rain stays in Spain that day, then!

Oh crap! would that be the same panic button that has been being pressed with such monotonous regularity all last season?

Was the Ross County deal any better...anybody know? Or had Tokely just painted himself into a corner where all he could do to save face was to stick the proverbial two fingers up at Butcher and ICT? Just asking.

I despair. I really do. I see a player who has been playing part time football until the age of 27 as a signing that might be for squad depth. I certainly won't be expecting him to walk into the team and i'd like a couple more players with a better CV at the club looking for a starting place but i will give him his chance to show what he can do. If he performs exceptionally well and earns a regular place then great, if not he'll be the back up player that we need and what we have all expected from him in the first place. Do you? Why doesn't that surprise me? I have never read any football forum so packed with glass half full with a crack in the bottom fans that it is positively depressing. It certainly isn't particularly positive in any other way.

Maybe County have more fans going to games regularly? That does help with finances. Also they have never been in the SPL, so haven't had the same level of costs as ICT has, including a year's groundshare, never lost money being relegated and had to retrench, and then return and face gradually reducing gates. We'll see how County are doing after a few years.

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that! That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we? Age isn't the issue, performances are what matter. As for Foran, I guess it will depend if Butcher is still here in 2 years as to what contract he receives. Thing is, I have never seen either of them play, to my knowledge, I can only go by posts on this forum, and I am here reading all Match Threads on Match Days (if I remember it is a match day) and listening to the BBC link....and tbh, over the piece, neither of them appear to have regularly covered themselves in glory...but then, I suppose it depends on whether the person posting an opinion is a Foran fan or a Tokely fan. So failing any other criteria , if neither are playing great, then age has to have an input to any decision as to contracts...stands to reason...doesn't it...or do you give contracts and not just cross your fingers, but also your toes and your legs, that the person who is slowing down this season and approaching 34 will suddenly get a new lease of life next season to warrant the contract he thinks he deserves or do you take a chance that the 31 year old has more chance of coming good next season? (Given that none of us know what money was on offer, just how long the contract was) Seems to me a no-brainer. .

I agree. In Scotland they will end up in a team which gives them the money they think they are worth.........or the only one who wants them whatever the wages the eventually get. Pragmatism rules in the end. Let's be honest here, ICT doesn't have the money to give players what they think they are worth, because that worth is not really within the realms of reality, just the result of their inflated sense of their own importance to the entertainment industry. ICT only has the money to give players what they think they are worth to ICT, given they have a limited budget and a lot of players to sign. And if that means signing under-20s from anywhere on a year's contract in the likelihood that we are going to have to do the same year after year because we can't afford cost of living, or "we are entitled" increases to a full team of longer serving players..then that is the fact of ICT life in the SPL until attendances improve dramatically.

To be fair, that is where Butcher still has the bigger name and will attract players who wouldn't, given their druthers, come to Scotland, at all. This new bloke who is meant to be on the way is up because of the lure of the management of legendary England centre half Terry Butcher at the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium. You can agree with it or not, but that appears to be the perception, plus, of course the chance to play in the SPL...and to further their careers as a few have done. The fact is that if Butcher and Malpas et al make a decent fist of improving them, but not in enthusing them with life in Inverness and the area, means that they move on earlier than we'd like to bigger, as in more lucrative though not necessarily better, things, is that the fault of Butcher or just the way that the me, me , me world is now....or the fact that Inverness can't compare with playing for a team in a country where decent entertainment facilities, shopping etc is a relatively short car journey away? Not saying Inverness doesn't have decent facilities, so don't get on your high horses....but heck, I'm looking at them from the level of Forres and Lybster, not from the level of people who live in a country where there are abundant motorways taking you where you want to be at a fraction of the time it takes me to get to Inverness to shop. The Rangers connection, up here, won't produce the same eagerness to be managed by a Rangers legend by players from other teams! Thing I don't understand, isn't Marsella the Goal-keeping coach for ICT or am I way out of date? or is he the club scout? If he is both, who points him in the direction of the people to look at? Way back when, about forty + years ago, a few Premier Division teams, like Rangers and Dundee United had local scouts who had once played to a decent level. Seem to remember one of them was the manager of the Bradford and Bingley in them days, but my memory may very well be faulty. If that is the way it works in England, why the hell is that not happening in Scotland? I'm sure that every member of this forum with an opinion as to how well players perform or how crap they are could more than adequately identify a player with possibilities to do a job for ICT.......so get out there...attend Highland League, under 20 and lower division matches and flag up absolute gems to be checked out by Marsella or somebody. I'm sure somebody could tell you where to send your suggestions.

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that! That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we?

At least Captain Untouchable Foran got a good deal though. I would say the same about him that his best is long gone but it doesn't change the fact Tokely was still one of our best players last season. Out of interest, how do you know Captain Untouchable Foran got a good deal?

I saw a post by CaleyD re donating depending on what happened with Rangers, but can't find it now. Out of interest, what are the average gate prices for home games?

Lurcher. About 29 ins at shoulder and pretty much the length of a two seater sofa. Some deerhound in him so he's smooth like a grey but broader. Did sit on him once inadvertently, when he stood up as I was stepping over him in the doorway. For a minute, my feet were off the ground, before I tipped over.

Lol! Well, you asked for it! I do agree re freedom of choice, but if a parent is dressing their new offspring in a baby celtic or rangers outfit before he/she is old enough to focus on their parent's face, that is indoctrination, not choice......imo.

It's not just from Inverness, Dougal. I don't much see the buses from Inverness heading down to the Central Belt, but I'd be surprised if there were less than head down from Caithness and pass my bus on the road to Inverness on match days....or the ones I know head to Glasgow etc from Moray and ignore the existence of Elgin City. Don't understand it myself, unless it is a case of not really being a football fan at all, but just wanting to be someone who can say they support one of the two biggest teams in Scotland, have a drunken day out and, if lucky....or unlucky..... a good fight into the bargain. And how do the fans of Wick Academy view your jaunts over the Ord to watch one of the two biggest teams in the Highlands? I would like more folk living locally to watch ICT rather than other teams, but let's just respect their freedom of choice. I don't jaunt over the Ord to watch any teams in the Highlands, I jaunt over the Ord to catch an onward bus to visit my family in my home area which isn't Inverness. I don't always jaunt on home match days......and I don't always jaunt in time to catch a game, and get to where I am going in the time frame when I am expected, which is why I have only managed a couple of Under-19 Games at the stadium, every game played in Wick, and the Cup game in Forres. I have a large dog who needs to be sat on ...and don't want to take advantage of my dog-sitters so I can attend football matches every second week. I prefer to make sure I can have fairly regular weeks down the road visiting my family, plus the ability to call on my dog-sitters at short notice in real family emergencies than bugger up their lives accommodating my hobbies....so I make do mostly with this place. Any other snide remarks?

I'm responding to this as if it isn't a p1ss-take, though I'm still not sure. (Can anyone explain to me how to divide a post into chunks to which to respond....I can't get it to work the way I can on other forums?) Now I know I'm going to get absolute pelters here from everybody, but I had no real idea who Ross Tokely was before I got here, bar I vaguely remembered him putting a player out of the game for a large chunk of time, and I've never seen him play, unless he played Wick in the very few Cup Games I could attend and if he did I missed him completely. So I post from a position of no bias in either direction regarding his playing ability, his worth to the club or his legend status. I can only form my opinion from posts on here, and my own personal interpretation of decency, loyalty and legend. On your first point, I'd like to say does longer always equal better? Can it not just as well mean good enough for a club who can't afford better? From what I have read on posts on here, his excelling has been intermittent since I arrived on this forum...but I do wonder, from time to time reading the eulogies..and having read here or elsewhere that he had been, despite living in Aberdeen, a Hearts fan, if he would have been so loyal to ICT if Hearts had come a-calling for him. Loyalty, in my book is sticking with a club even if a better club comes for you and your family is prepared to move. Fair enough, he didn't go to that Turkish side when he could have......but did he ever have any other real offers from bigger clubs in Scotland or England....and was his family keen to go to Turkey? I agree with your second two points. Re your fourth...I am afraid that, to me, he only appears to have loyalty to the club if it gives him what he thinks he deserves. If ICT fans want to bum up anybody as a legend and name a stand after him, they should have been doing it for Grant Munro, who took the club decision on the chin, and didn't whine, complain and gurn in the press, before or after to my knowledge. (though I'm sure there will be some here who will link to stuff I have missed). The fact that Tokely didn't have the send off he thought he deserved was down to himself alone. Not ICT or Butcher. Imo, he thought that by putting pressure on the club, via the media, ahead of the cut-off date...in the knowledge the fans would rather have a geriatric defender as long as he had what they perceived as an ICT ethos, despite being an Aberdonian, supporting Hearts and playing for wages..... and would shout a lot...would perhaps get the offer increased. Can anyone tell me who, ahead of the last game of the season would have contacted the press but Tokely? Re your bullet points 6-8....how do you know that was not the case? But, bear in mind, Tokely didn't go to the press until the day before the Hibs game, so it would appear he was still pushing the envelope at that stage and hoping for a change of mind on the part of ICT. He acknowledges himself on 1st June it was not difficult to turn down Caley Thistle's contract offer despite knowing he will never get to say a proper goodbye to supporters. So if it was Tokely's choice to try and improve the offer past the last game of the season, how come, when his efforts failed, it is, according to this forum, ICT's/Butcher's fault he didn't get a decent send-off? Nope...imo, Tokely is not a legend, Tokely is a journeyman looking out for himself, as he has been doing for the last 16 years. As most footballers do, tbh. There is no loyalty to ICT in going to the press three times, to my knowledge, to whine that a deal isn't good enough, then that he has refused the deal because it still isn't good enough and then later reiterates that just because it was a slow sports news day and the press needed a space filler. That smacks more of flagging up his position in the shop window...as in come and get me, I'm free! Tokely didn't give a toss as to an appropriate send off, so why are fans obsessing about it? Loyalty was the reactions of Munro and Duncan. and, if it comes to that Golabek and McBain to being dumped....disappointment. acceptance..and getting on with life....not running to the press whining that they were hard done to and deserved better (as far as I know). If anyone needs to learn dignity,it is Tokely, imo..not ICT.

It's not just from Inverness, Dougal. I don't much see the buses from Inverness heading down to the Central Belt, but I'd be surprised if there were less than head down from Caithness and pass my bus on the road to Inverness on match days....or the ones I know head to Glasgow etc from Moray and ignore the existence of Elgin City. Don't understand it myself, unless it is a case of not really being a football fan at all, but just wanting to be someone who can say they support one of the two biggest teams in Scotland, have a drunken day out and, if lucky....or unlucky..... a good fight into the bargain.

That to me sounds like Butcher wanted him gone. It certainly does. Of course there comes a time when people have to move on, but if the manager believes that a player has reached that stage he should release the player and acknowledge the contribution the player has made to the club. This is particulary true in Roscoe's case because nobody has ever made a greater contribution to this club. To force the player to leave by offering a derisory deal and then telling him by text rather than a face to face meeting that there would be no better deal is both cowardly and shameful. He has chosen this route because he did not want the same hue and cry that releasing Munro created. His inability to man manage is demonstrated by yet another major misjudgement both of his assessment of a player and how to deal with the situation. And if he had just released Tokely, there would have still been the same greeting, whining and breast-beating, wouldn't there.....and for the next season, undoubtedly a constant refrain of "we need Tokely" and "we should never have let Tokely go"......and the usual "Butcher must go" refrains. Given nobody actually knows the offer made to Tokely, in the first place, bar it was all, despite his previous emphasis, before the Hibs game on not wanting just to be a squad player, really down to the money he was going to get...how does anybody know it was derisory anywhere but in Tokely's mind.....given the fact that a large chunk of footballers are well overpaid for what they do anyway. What he thinks was derisory, I, and many others may well consider being vastly overpaid for what they do. OK, footballers have a limited timespan to make their money before they are more of a liability than of use and are chucked on the football scrapheap......but, excuse me, did we decide that was going to be their lifestyle choice.....or did they...and how much of their decision to embrace football as a career was more to do with the level of remuneration in the short term than the fact that they could play football and get paid for it? Given they know the job does have a limited timespan, would the sensible not be spending their time when not training, preparing for the day they know will come.....when nobody wants them because they are past it? Is there any obligation on the part of clubs to pay people who train for a few hours a day and play once or twice a week for 90 minutes each time, to make sure they make enough money in that very limited useful timespan to enable them to retire in their mid-thirties and live off the interest on the money earned?

ICT can't afford the wages because they don't have enough fans in the Inverness area interested enough to attend the games....so doesn't that indicate that Inverness has an SPL team, but much of the town doesn't care at all. And would that not, logically, indicate that Inverness has the SPL team it deserves? Maybe not the SPL team those who do attend the games think they deserve, and I can see their point......but a manager and board can only afford the players their income allows them to employ.....and if the punters don't provide the income, the manager and board can't sign the players.

And you know it is not for personal gain how, exactly? If he was offered a wage level he didn't like, and did not get a first team guarantee, somebody who didn't think he was subsuming his natural inclinations in order to reach for ICT sainthood, as you appear to do, would think the interview before the season end was made specifically to put pressure on Butcher....in the knowledge that there would be fans, like you, who would kick up a fuss on his behalf. Not saying that is the case, btw....but it is as least as feasible as your interpretation of anything which has appeared in the media. What Tokely does is up to him.....I'm inclined to think if he hasn't had an offer, or even interest from another team, he'll accept what he was offered by ICT, however much he doesn't think it gives him what he wants. I hope he does stay....but if not, then good luck to him. I'd have thought that, if he is considering his family, a job is better than the dole..wouldn't you?

Have we signed only one under 19 player? Really? To what have we signed that one...to the under-20s or to the full squad? Given our straitened financial circumstances, why would we give a full time first team contract to anyone from the youth squad we don't absolutely have to if they are still eligible to play in the under-20s but can be called onto the bench for the first team if necessary, as a few of last years under-19s were.and haven't yet acquired an agent to kill their footballing future?

bmhighland did. If what bauhaus said is correct re who has been let go, of the 9 players pulled into the squad from the under-17s on returning to the SPL, Liam Polworth, Kyle Whyte and Martin Laing, are the only ones still here. (inclined to think on digging, he is correct.) All three of them have been with the youth system from very early on. I think. So still being here from the first age group Youth squad could point to decency. Without the u-20s, Martin Laing might have been gone....or in the 1st team squad (can't quite remember his age, tbh, though he was one of the older of the under-17 squad.) However, I don't really do opinions on abilities, because I can't even walk straight, far less make a football go where I thought I had sent it..(ask my male offspring with whom I used to kick-about and I think should have been playing for Scotland)..and I do rather tend to rely on the opinions of others who claim to know everything. ( which was why my surprise at the letting go of the others and my surprise at keeping Martin Laing) Just as well I, and my omniscient mentors have no say in the makeup of any squad. A couple of that original 9 were let go at the start of this season, when I think the under 19s pulled in 7 more under-17s, but as far as I know, those newer ex-under-17s are still here. So, of the players brought up pretty much through the ICT youth system, we still have, in the under-20s, 10 ICT brought up youth players, though I have no idea about the situation of those signed more recently who were brought up elsewhere..like Ed Baldy.

But was it motivated more by his agent's prospective increase in his bank balance? Worst thing that ever happened in football......people with no ability making money from the abilities of other. Why would anybody want somebody who looks on them as a cash cow for their benefit make their decisions for them? Never understood the concept, myself.

I didn't say he does want to leave, did I? Or that he doesn't care for ICT. But I fail to understand what you mean by He is making a stance and that is probably sppoking a lot of people. What stance is he making..and who is he spooking? CaleyD actually held Tokely up as a good example of it NOT being necessary to be a born and bred Invernessian to have the club at heart, and said that his commitment and passion for his career club cannot be faulted...and, until I had a look at his stats a couple of weeks ago, I certainly wasn't aware he wasn't fairly local. I do rather think that you are on the verge of electing Tokely to the sainthood. Just what is actually going on bar a 33 year old man who plays football has been told he has a place in the ICT squad in the SPL for next season if he wants it? And, to date, he hasn't said that he doesn't want it. Nowhere have I read anything I can interpret as he will not have a chance to play for his place....though he may well have been told he will have to play for his place, and not expect it as a reward for loyalty.