DoofersDad

Yup.

I wouldn't consider most of what is on this thread negative at all. A few have certainly had it in for Yogi from the start and will jump on anything to justify their pre-conceived views but I think that most share Macduffer's view that they really want Hughes to succeed. I don't know why there are so many people who interpret criticism as negative. Criticism is made to draw attention to things you think are not right and much that has been on here is not just criticism, it is constructive criticism in that it is giving positive suggestions for improvement. Of course nobody likes to be criticised, but the best managers and the best performers actually welcome it. Indeed, processes of objective criticism of individuals are key management development tools. It is only by being honerst about the moments that are, as you put it it, "less than sterling" that you can properly identify and analyse weaknesses and address them to improve performance. Personally I think Hughes has the potential to be a very good manager indeed, but the Motherwell match was the most alarming 90 minutes of football I have ever witnessed and I make no apologies for saying so. What is negative is to refrain from criticism when things are not as they should be. That's a sure way to mediocrity. Let's applaud the team when they do well but equally let's criticise when criticism is due. Of course, some of the criticism offered will be good and some will be complete rubbish but most will be made with the best interest of the club at heart. If the manager and the players at this level can't use criticism to analyse their own performance then they really have no business being here. Just to illustrate the point. If you want someone to go from A to B and see them setting out on what you believe to be the road to C. What do you do? Do you, like me, say "Woah! where are you going? That's the road to C" or do you say nothing trusting that the person knows what they're doing. If you take my line they may say "thanks but there's a short cut to B this way" or they may just say "So it is, thanks for letting me know" Either way, the "criticism" is welcomed and they get to B in the end. Of course they may just ignore you and insist it is the right road and then end up with egg on their face when they get to C but at least you are no worse off than if you had said nothing at all. If you say nothing at all there may be a short cut but equally the person may end up at C and be pretty annoyed you saw them going on the wrong road but said nothing.

Why do you have to qualify your statement about folk being right to be upset by the chants? It comes across as though your only reason for condemning the chants is because it shows the club up in a bad light. I think everybody else who has expressed distate at the chants has done so out a feeling of compassion for a fellow human being. The fact that it paints the support in a bad light is very much a secondary consideration. And why use the derogatory word "bitching" for folk who are demonstrating a bit of human decency? It is also getting rather tiresome that you continue to badge everyone expressing concerns on this issue as hypocrites because they (in your view) are doing nothing about it. Well actually they are doing something about it - they are letting others who are in a better position to act on the matter know their concerns so that they can help to prevent it in the future. It seems perverse that you blame us and call us hypocrites yet seem to have no words of criticism for the inaction of the club in doing anything preventative following the previous match in Dingwall or for those present at the match who were paid to ensure people's behaviour was in bounds. And whilst I'm at it, I would also comment on your earlier statement criticisng folk who offer critical comment but who don't get actively involved in helping the club. There are a lot of folk who for a variety of reasons are unable to do so. Many folk just find a little time to read and contribute to this forum as a welcome distraction from other aspects of their often very stressful lives. They may work long hours in a stressful job, they may have permanent carer responsibilities, they may live too far away to be able to help, they may be disabled or ill, or they may give generously of their spare time for some other cause. You have no idea what their personal circumstances are. To criticise these folk for not actively getting their hands dirty for the club is, to be frank, offensive. In any case, it is surely preferable to take the time and voice a concern on this forum than say nothing at all. Remember that these folk are actually helping the club by giving those at the club their views. These views should be helpful to you personally in your role with the club as it provides hard evidence about what supporters are thinking. We all know you do a lot for the club and I applaud you and am grateful to you for that, but if you want others to help in a voluntary capacity with the club you might find more success in getting recruits if you didn't convey the impression that you think those of us voicing concerns in the best interests of the club are all lazy hypocrites.

Football is the beautiful game. If modern synthetic / hybrid pitches allow skillful players to demonstrate those skills to greater effect, then I'm all for them.

Yeah but surely you could understand when Nick Ross, Danny Williams and Marley Watkins were all on the bench last Tuesday vs Motherwell and the former 2 weren't even used. ...and the full backs had clearly been instructed not to venture into the wide open spaces in front of them.

I think a hypocrite in this situation would be someone who was singing the chant and then came on here to condemn it. I don't think it is fair to call someone a hypocrite who decides not to take their attention away from the game and squeeze themselves between all the other fans in the their row,then to find a steward / police officer to make their complaint to before going back to their seat (and missing an Aaron Doran wonder strike in the process). We spend enough energy telling the referee how to do his job without telling the stewards and police as well.

It is disappointing that this is being discussed again as the same ignorant chant was made at the game in Dingwall earlier in the year and was condemend on this forum then. It is disappointing because one might have hoped that those responsible would have reflected on it after the last match and realised that whilst they might have thought it funny / clever first time round, it really was well over the line. Secondly, it is disappopinting that nobody in the club appears to have taken any action after the last match. This could either have been to have a word with a few of the folk in the singing section to get them to acknowledge that the chant was not appropriate and to pass on the word to others that it is not on, and/or the club could have had a word to the stewards / police to ask them to intervene in the event that this chant was sung. Thirdly, it is disappointing that the police or stewards did not intervene on their own initiative. Surely they aren't so dumb that they don't know that the chant was offensive. Whilst the fans pay good money to watch a game of football, the stewards and the police are being paid to do a job of work and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to do their job. Yes it would be good if more folk had the guts to get out of their seats and have a word with those doing the singing but please let's not condemn those that don't. I personally have seen some guy (quite a big guy at that) being subject to a tirade of aggressive abuse from 3 or 4 young adults in their 20s or 30s when he tried to intervene on some other offensive chant. It is little wonder that others stay in the seats and expect the stewards and police to do what they are being paid to do. I should, of course, add, that it would also be nice to see these people do their job amongst the home support at Ibrox and Celtic Park.

Wasn't able to get to the match but I am hugely encouraged by the reports and the little one sees on the highlights. The previous week was one of rather alarming developments with both what we saw on the pitch and heard off it. I don't think I have ever been as exasparated about the way a team has been instructed to play as I was against Motherwell midweek. It does sound as though Yogi has listened to criticism and hopefully he will be comitted to using width as an essential part of an exciting passing style of play. Clearly Doran was hugely influential yet again. IMHO Doran is the player around which the play revolves when the team play well. The more I see of Watkins the more impressed I am with him and have long been an advocate of Shinnie as a central midfielder. Comments about Billy being burnt out seem to have been found to be misplaced, with a bit of width and drive the chances were coming and Billy looked pretty sharp for his goal. With Draper back and Tansey replacing Vincent further forward I think we have a line up capable of playing a style of play which is perhaps, as CaleyD says, a compromise bewtween the Butcher style and the vision Hughes has. This balance seems the right style for the very talented squad we have available for next season and all the ingredients are there for a really exciting end product. It will be interesting to see whether Hughes sticks to this for the rest of the season or tries to add in other elements of his longer term vision too soon.

- and I've never been happier, darling.

While I wholeheartedly agree with majority of what you have said Davie but where I have highlighted is what I have to disagree with. At our recent home games especially I feel that that team are getting into great spaces but then they play it through the middle leaving great spaces in the edge of the oppositions box (I highlight this on the Motherwell match thread with screenshots to back this up) Now, during the Butcher reign a lot of the time, we would see Shinnie and Raven for that matter overlap the wingers, exploiting the flanks and getting a good cross in for Billy Mckay, Richie Foran and Ross Draper to get a head to. By playing the narrow style of play, we are simply trying to walk the ball into the net and ocassionly have belter of goals like Christie's and Polworth's for example. The tactics that are being employed at the moment will take time to master because it's the complete opposite to how they lads have played the last season and a half. I am not saying the tactic will fail far from it but I think there should be a happy medium of both narrow and wide play especially at home. With all due respect Davie, I don't agree when you say we don't have the striker needed to convert them. Billy Mckay converted them during the Bucher reign, what's changed that he can't convert them now? Agree. Worth looking at the highlights of the last County game where getting wide behind the defence caused county all sorts of problems. That was not passing through the middle type football, that was counter attacking with pace both down the wings and through the middle when width had created the space. It was a joy to behold with bith Shiinie and Raven involved in the goals and Doran pulling all the strings. That is not the way the team were instructed to play against Motherwell.

If Hughes wants to play like a Spanish side he should go to Spain. He needs to understand that it is the quality of the final ball that is important - not the number of passes leading up to it. It is interesting that he mentions Barcelona and to reflect that for the last 2 seasons Barcelona have made visits to Celtic Park. In 2012 they lost 2-1 and last autumn they won just 1-0. The continental style is to sit back and defend the space. This gives players a bit more time on the ball. The reason why Barcelona have struggled against Celtic is that Celtic pressed them hard in the Scottish way and disrupted their passing. If Barca and their highly skilled players struggle against Celtic what on earth makes Hughes think that our good honest laddies can compete with Celtic playing in the Barca style? Can't fault the guy for ambition but perhaps someone should tell him that we've already beaten Celtic a few times - and with squads not quite as good as we know have. It was done by playing to our strengths.

The players made mistakes even when we playing at our best earlier in the season. If they didn't make mistakes they wouldn't be playing for us. Mistakes are more noticable now because we are creating less and scoring less and this makes the errors more costly. And maybe we are making more mistakes. But the question is, why? Different style of play, fewer chances created, more errors, same players, different manager.

It may have slipped some folk's notice, but there is a derby game on tomorrow night. I can't remember a match against County which has been less eagerly awaited and about which there has been so little discussion beforehand. Do we know how many tickets have been sold? How full is the away stand going to be? We really should be filling it every time but will it even be half full tomorrow? We were critical of County fans who stayed away from TCS in droves earlier in the season but will there be any more ICT fans in Dingwall tomorrow night? Will the stand even be half full? There are a lot of reasons why folk might stay away:- The game comes at the end of a long run of games including 2 home games within the last week. Many folk simply can't afford to go to all these games. It's on TV People are disillusioned with the way we are playing and are less inclined to go because of that. With recent results all but extinguishing the chance of improving on last season's position, there is little to play for other than bragging rights. I'd go if I could but I'm committed to attend a retirement do. I can't really get out of it because it's my retirement do! I really hope other folk are up for the game and give great support to the players. There is always a buzz about derby games and often recent form and managers' instructions go out the window. A win tommorrow with the buzz of the occasion and the away support roaring the team on could just get the players doing what they do best and could help turn things around. One thing's for sure, a defeat tomorrow playing a "through the middle" approach will ensure the home stands at TCS are all but empty for the rest of the season. Hopefully there will be a great support tomorrow night and the fans who go will be rewarded for their loyalty.

This is supported by the clip posted at 415. There is a very clear suggestion that he thinks the players are not working hard enough. Where I think he may have a point is that there is a tendency to stand off too much and not close down quickly enough. But that ignores the real issue. The issue is what we are doing with the ball when we have it. If he would use some width and allow the players to attack the space with pace, he'll soon see that the players have heart. These players got us to 2nd in the league. They are good enough alright and we are lucky to have them. What we need is for the manager to have the guts to change his tactics to suit the very considerable talent and heart at his disposal.

I think Gingerjaggy's idea is a good one. It is not a media grilling that is required but politely asking questions about what is concerning us. As Bughtmaster says, using the wings creates the space in the middle and it would be reasonable to ask him questions about why he seems so reluctant to use the wings. This would give him an opportunity to explain in a bit more detail what he is trying to do without anyone trying to catch him out.

Were you actually at the game last night and if so, were you in the dugout? The players who you obviously feel are letting the club down are the players who had the team up in 2nd place before the new manager came in. They are the same players who gave their all yesterday in trying to play to a system which they know is not going to work and who were obviously very frustrated about it. All the players have their good days and their bad days but yesterday you certainly could not fault them for lack of effort. It was a bit like a new conductor telling the string section of an orchestra to play the wind instruments. They can huff and puff all they want but it won't sound good and it won't be their fault.

I've given this a bit of thought and so the first thing to say is to apologise for the length of this post. My immediate response to Mahonio's original post was simply to post . I didn't expand on that as I felt it encapsulated my frustration at folk who are not prepared to give folk a chance to bed into a new role. It is, after all, a common criticism that football clubs don't give managers time and this club has a record of bucking that unfortunate trend. That is not to say that I did not have any concerns, but my view was that it was far too early to judge the man and we would need to be struggling well into next season before it would be reasonable to ask such questions. Since then, my concerns have been growing and yesterday rapidly took things to a new level - his comments before and after the match and the tactics on show during the match were simply not acceptable. So, should he be sacked? Rather than say a definite "No" as I did a short while ago, or a definite "Yes", I think it all depends on discussions between the Board and the Manager - and if such discussions have not taken place today, they need to take place very soon because having taken over the Manager's position at a period when the most successful season in the club's history was all but assured, Hughes has catapaulted the club into crisis in just a few short weeks. I don't use the word "crisis" lightly, but crisis it is. Hughes has now very publicly stated that the style of football the squad are good at and which the fans love to see is not his style. His style is to play it through the middle - a style he has not been able to achieve results with elsewhere and which we all know he will not acheive results with here. Not only are we to play it through the middle but the guys are to pass it at all costs. No wonder we are creating little up front and are nervous as hell at the back and are giving away soft goals. Not only is it not going to work, it is boring to watch. The frustration of players and fans alike was evident at the game yesterday. For me it was encapsulated at a first half free kick midway in our own half. With most of the team moving up towards the 'Well penalty area there was an exchange between Warren and Draper. Warren was calling Draper back to receive a short free kick and it seemed to me that Draper was effectively saying something like "what's the point" whilst Warren was saying it was what they'd been told to do. A short kick was taken and inevitably came to nothing. Presumably when Draper has been "educated" on how to pass the ball to Billy's feet through the 6 or 7 opposition players in the way, all will be well. If Hughes hasn't already lost the dressing room he appears to be doing his best to lose it and he is certainly losing fans through the turnstiles. If his insistance on his fundementally flawed tactics is allowed to continue then there are number of implications:- We will not win a European place next year. Whilst a European adventure at our level may not be very lucrative and might even cost in the short term, the experience for the players and fans and the kudos it would bring to the club would be huge. The longer term impact would be to attract more fans to the club and it would make it a more attractive club to potential future players. Barring miracles, what recently seemed probable this season is now highly unlikely. Players will want to leave. Perhaps we would get some money in for them as they are all under contract but it will not be much. Our current form is relegation form or close to. If this style of play carries on to next season and we lose some of our better players then relegation is a real possibility. Post independence, a European adventure will mean a trip to Berwick. Crowd numbers which are already low, will drop alarmingly and that will have a major impact on the financial position of the club. This will be a much bigger factor than any transfer income. Club finances will be further hit by a lower league position (or a position in a lower league) and no windfall through cup success It is a distinctly gloomy prospect. Hughes came here in the fortunate position of inheriting the best squad this club has ever had and with most of them contracted to the end of the following season or beyond. Since Butcher has left others have committed to the club, Tansey has rejoined and Christie has emerged as a real talent. In short, the scene was set to build on Butcher's legacy and take the club forward. Butcher and his management team certainly did well in assembling the squad and had them playing an effective style of play which, when the team was on form, could be exhillerating to watch. Where Butcher was weak was that he was often tactically naive and had no plan B. It was in this aspect of the game that I for one had high hopes of Hughes. I believed he could bring a different dimension to build on that legacy: little did I think he would simply knock it down. This is a crisis not just because of what we see happening to the team just now, but because of the potential of next season. The Rangers and Hearts are out of the equation and Hibs will be rebuilding. That's half of Scotland's big 6 teams. This year and next represent the best chance we have ever had or are likely to have for many a long year to finish in the top three and to win a European place. With the excellent squad we have available to us it really must be a priority for the club to secure a top 3 finish next season. We may never have a better opportunity as the following year will almost certainly see The Rangers back and challenging and possibly one or both of the Edinburgh clubs. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd will probably continue to strengthen. Bottom line for me is that we simply can't afford to start next season playing Hughes' "through the middle" nonsense. If he is given the chance and 10 games in we are sitting close to the bottom then it will be too late for anyone else to turn it around. We have to get back to doing what our players do best now. The Chairman needs to tell him that and if he won't do it, then out he goes. Many have said that so early in his contract the Board can't afford to sack him, but in my view the financial consequences of him continuing to do what he is currently doing would cost far more than buying out his contract. I don't know what gets written into contracts but is Hughes not in breach of his contract by radically changing the way we play? Surely the interview process must discuss a candidate's proposals for basic playing style and tactics. Unless the Board felt that this nonsense was a good idea then Hughes will be in breach of his contract and he can leave "by mutual consent". If the Board were conned because they did not have a football man on the panel then they should have the guts to make a sound business decision and cut their losses. So Mahonio, my original to you is now directed to Hughes and his fatally flawed philosophy. For raising the topic I now give you

Putting the 2 previous posts together it sounds perhaps as though he was there - but hiding under the bench.

The really worrying thing about tonight's game for me was that I thought the players gave their all and actually played pretty well within the tactics that were deployed.How bad will it get when performance levels drop off? Shinnie, Draper, Tansey and Vincent all worked hard in midfield but time and time again it all came to nothing because there was no width. But it's worse than just there being no width - I got the impression that players have been told to play the ball to feet. On the odd occasion that Raven or Tremarco were wide in space the ball was played to feet and so by the time the ball reached them their way forward was blocked and so it was sideways or back again. A few months ago the same players would have had the ball played into space for them to run onto. It was the same with the forward ball - lack of width meant there were few gaps to exploit and therefore sideways it went again. Motherwell had players out tonight and were there for the taking. With the effort our lads put in we would have taken them to the cleaners if the tactics had been better. Unless things change soon it is going to be a disappointing 6th for us at the end of the season. Very proud of the effort of the players tonight but hugely disappointed at the way they were told to play.

Further to my comment above, it was interesting to see Esson try to play a short ball whenever possible. Sometimes he looked for alternative short options before resorting to the normal keeper's hoof. He looked uncomfortable trying to play the short ball. Makes me wonder whether Brill was dropped because he's been involved in one or two mix ups recently or because he wasn't following instructions.

Of course! Thanks for the clarification.

Motherwell also have some significant injuries so I don't necessarily see that as being too light weight. Is Tansey available? I would probably start with him with a view to bringing Christie on later. For me it's more a question of what the game plan is rather than who is going to play. Yogi's quote on the BBC preview is "I think we play football and we still don't know how to keep a clean sheet. That's all down to hard work and shape. "I will pick a team and let them go and play, sit back and analyse it and get the answers. "And, if it's not those guys, I keep saying to them, football evolves. If it's not you, it will be someone else. "You can't do any more than give them the jersey and say 'go and play and show me you can take this club where we want to go'."

He starts his job proper after the County game and all the fixture congestion.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of the game than me can shed some light on what seems to be a bit of a contradiction in the way players are told to play. A lot of comment has been made about an apparent pass at all costs mentality which seems to have got us into a lot of defensive difficulty when a good hoof up or out of the park, whilst not pretty, would have cleared the immediate danger. However, as soon as the ball gets back to the keeper it appears that he is instructed to let everyone get into position up the park and then - hoof! Quite often Raven and Shinnie make themselves available for a safe out ball but Brill waves them up the park. So, when a defender has the ball and it is risky to pass they are being encouraged to pass, but when the keeper has the ball and it is safe to pass and keep possession he is being told to hoof it. Can't get my head around it.

At one time it did look as though he might get more game time and he certainly looked promising when he did get on. But then we seemed to accumulate more and more palyers to give options in midfield and he rarely makes the bench. I don't know if he's been offerred a change to go out on loan but I would have thought that would have been a good option for him. But if the lad does not feel particularly settled in Inverness and wants to try somewhere else then fair enough. Hopefully he can find a club at a decent level and make some progress with his career.