DoofersDad

Seem to have 3 threads picking up on the Shinnie situation. Think I'll stick to the one called "Graeme Shinnie". He may not have committed his future to the club but he is still in contract till the end of the season and I would expect him to give his all for his current employers and team mates - team mates who in some cases will also be his friends off the park. In addition, unless he maintains his level of performance and continues to impress his future employers, he may find himself warming the bench at the start of next season. If Yogi thinks his current level of performance warrants his inclusion in the side then he should continue to pick him and we should continue to support him as part of the team. The captaincy is a different matter though. I think there are others in the side who could take on the captaincy at least as effectively as Shinnie and it should be with someone who has committed to be at the club for at least another season. Giving the captaincy to someone else also makes it easier to drop Shinnie should his performance level drop off. He should play if his performance justifies it but he should not be considered an automatic pick.

On 4th Jan after the St Mirren game I posted "It was interesting that with Draper available, Tremarco continued at left back with Shinnie in midfield in preference to Draper. In my view Draper is better in the defensive midfield role than Shinnie whilst Shinnie is better at left back than Tremarco. I was wondering if this means that Shinnie's departure is imminent and the thinking here was to give Tremarco the opportunity to establish himself at LB whilst Shinnie is still here. Whilst Shinnie didn't have a particularly poor game today, it does seem to me that in the last few games he has lacked some of the intensity of performance that we have got used to seeing." I think that since then his performances have continued in that vein as if he was lacking that edge in playing for the side. I don't think he is the sort to deliberately take the foot of the gas so to speak but I think these things must impact on you at a subconscious level. Meanwhile, Tremarco has continued at left back and done very well. We also look even stronger in midfield with Nick Ross having grasped his opportunity, Williams and Doran also playing well and with Vincent and Christie waiting on the bench. It seems to me therefore that Shinnie is no longer the automatic choice he used to be and that in the circumstances we should give the nod to those who are committed to the club and drop Shinnie. I can't say I blame him for moving to Aberdeen. He grew up there and no doubt supported the Dons as a lad and has always aspired to play for them. He is still young enough to move from there to a big English club if he does well there. IMHO it is probably the right move for him but I would rather he was staying and I don't really want to see him captaining the side for the rest of the season.

Wasn't there, but from reading the OP it seems to me that what was being said was well beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour. We can all moralise what any individual should or should not do in these situations but one point which nobody seems to have picked up on is not so much the individual words used but the message they added up to. This individual was not just being exceptionally foul mouthed he was making very unpleasant and serious threats - ignorant, idle threats no doubt, but threats nontheless. This is not just something which would have warranted the stewards evicting him for, it was something that would justify police involvement. I appreciate that folk don't want to detract attention from the achievement of the team on the park but if the OP is correct in what was said, this is not something which should simply be left. Personally I would be delighted if the club could indentify the individual, uphold the values of what is supposed to be a family club and ban him from TCS.

Looks like a bad February then!

One has to be grateful to the town planners of the 60's for tearing down that hideous monstrosity and replacing it with the elegant and stunningly beautiful building that graces the water front now.

With so many of the bigger clubs in the process of recovering from various problems and with us having the best squad we've ever had, there has never been a better opportunity to get into Europe or feel we are genuine cup contenders. We may never have this kind of opportunity again and we need to do all we can to keep the squad together. The big clubs will come back stronger and better managed and even if we continue to develop, it will get harder to compete at the very top. One should never say never, but we should resist offers unless they are very big offers which would allow the club improve the contract terms of others to ensure they stay.

What our club does well and no doubt will continue to do well is to bring in players who seem to be under-performing at a lower level and developing them within the structure. We have always had a good team spirit which has allowed us to play as a team and through a succession of managers the focus has been the team rather than more prominent individuals. New players need to be ones which fit in with the ethos of the club and can bring something to the style of play. I think an important element of this is continuity. Sides built on teamwork rather than individual flare need time to develop as a unit and that means that we need to find players who are keen to live in this part of the country and sign up for 2 or 3 years. These factors make the County players an obvious place to look for replacements. County have some good players who are under-performing as a team. You only need to think back to the first half of the game at TCS earlier in the season when we were lucky not to go in at the interval 4 down. They also know what it is like to live up here and, indeed, many wouldn't want to move away and if they fitted in with the team ethos at ICT would be ideal candidates for a longer term commitment to the club. I wouldn't want to speculate which players might have the potential to develop within the ICT set up - all I'm saying is that OTB should be the first place Hughes should look at when seeking new blood. As for the County boys, a switch to ICT would be perfect - they'd get to move to a big club down South without having to move house.

HT 0-1 FT 0-2 ICT Warren Opp Andreu Time 43mins

It is very illuminating to compare Tuesday's performance with a match which took place 15 months ago at Easter Road. In that game, ICT won 2 - 0 and it could have been 4 or 5. The style of play was both exciting and skillful and drew comments on the match day thread such as this from AJS "We raced into that lead with ease as Hibs ran out of ideas almost straight from kick off, despite a couple of shaky moments at the back from Brill. Doran, Watkins, Ross and Shinnie overpowered their back line with some fine passing and smart runs". Sound familiar? What is also remarkable is the similarity in starting line ups: of the 11 that started at Easter Road only Foran was missing from Tuesday's starting line up. One slight difference is that on Tuesday we moved up to 3rd in the league - on 9 Nov 2013 we moved up to 2nd. It is true that Butcher behaved despicably at the end of his contract and it is also true that Hughes is a likable and engaging character, but that should not cloud our memories to the fact that Hughes inherited a squad of exceptional players who were capable of playing exceptional football. It seems to me that the similarities of the two games mark Tuesday's game as a key point in Hughes' tenure as manager. After the dismal slump at the end of last season, the team is now back on track and back up to playing at the level it was when Hughes arrived. We now have to see if he can sustain this for the rest of the season and beyond. I'm afraid I am not yet ready to join the Hughes love fest quite yet. What he has done has been done with the players he inherited. It has also been achieved by moving away from the philosophy he was espousing this time last year. Then he was commenting that whilst Butcher liked to use width, he wanted his team to pass the ball through the middle. Full backs were stopped from making surging runs down the flanks but fortunately he has now realised that using the width of the park is one of the strengths of the team. In the last 2 home games we have had great goals scored following the ball being played wide into space for Raven and Tremaco to run onto. Not only does this tactic obviously work, it is also exciting to watch. We are therefore back to where we started by virtue of having the luxury of a settled side and by a change of heart in the style of play. One thing that is different is a stronger emphasis on possession and it is this aspect which may be the key to whether Hughes can take the team forward or not. Butcher's philosophy was essentially "you can't score unless the ball is in their half and you won't concede if the ball is in their half". Hughes' philosophy is "you can't score unless you've got the ball and they won't score if you've got the ball". Butcher's philosophy led to a a faster pace and a more gung ho approach. Hughes' philosophy leads to a more measured and patient approach. What we need to see and I think are perhaps beginning to see is a combination of the 2 philosophies - "you'll score more if you've got the ball in their half". As players get more comfortable in possession and that little bit slicker and accurate with their passing they need to be a bit bolder in playing the ball into the gaps and getting the ball forward quicker. I give credit to Hughes for getting us back on track by appreciating what the strengths of the team are and moderating his style accordingly, but I think there are a couple of things he needs to achieve before I become a fully signed up member of the Yogi fan club. Firstly, he needs to up the pace of the possession football. If a focus in training is keeping possession and passing quickly then if the players are developing in this they should be able to play more incisive balls forward. It would be good to see less of the side to side and then back to the keeper stuff that so many people find exasperating. Using the width of the park creates more space for this. Signs are promising that progress is being made in this regard and I am optimistic that Hughes can take this team to a higher level. We should be able to judge him on that at the end of this season. Secondly, he needs to demonstrate that he can bring in new players who are comfortable playing the system. Hughes has been incredibly lucky to inherit such a great squad and to be able to retain them into his 2nd season. Clearly we are going to lose players this summer and new ones will need to be brought in. We won't be able to judge him on that till the end of next season. Having pulled things round from the disappointments of his early months, I am optimistic that Hughes can take this team forward. But lets not get carried away - it's still far too early for the statue.

What is relevant here is last night's crowds. St Mirren, boosted by their victory OTB in the last match, had their lowest crowd of the season. Partick's previous season's low was 2914 but last night only 2138 turned out to watch them thrash Hamilton. There is no doubt that crowds are reduced on a cold January evening and on that evidence our crowd was clearly 500-1000 better than it would have been had the pay what you want initiative not been in place.

Is that you, IHE?

Had Raven and Tansey been playing last night we would have won by more than 2. Both must return as they have been outstanding in recent weeks. I feel Shinnie has been a bit below his normal high standards of late but I can't see Hughes dropping the captain. I think Tremarco will drop out with Shinnie going to left back. I wonder if Watkins is properly fit. He seemed less involved yesterday and was first to be substituted. If he's not fully fit then he could drop out. If he is fit then either Williams Doran or Ross would make way. My guess would be Williams despite the fact that he played well last night.

Great to have 4 wins in a row but perhaps a bit disappointed we didn't take the opportunity of exploiting our dominance by improving the goal difference a bit more. St Johnstone have a few injury problems and were unlucky with injuries during the game but the net result of that was that they were one of the poorest sides I have seen at TCS for a long time. I guess we all see the game differently but I am surprised by MOTM choices of others. Whilst I agree that it was a good team performance, the key to the victory was that their attacking options were so effectively snuffed out. Warren and particularly Meekings were dominant at the back winning crosses and making tackles and interceptions before efficiently offloading. In front of them Draper was his usual tower of strength. The stats that St J only had 2 shots at goal bear testament to that. On the creative front, Doran was the pick of the bunch. He always looked to get forward and inject some pace and movement into the game. He worked well with Tremarco and was excellent covering back when Tremarco went forward. His workrate was superb. The downside was that he didn't have his shooting boots on. Tremarco was awful for the first 25 minutes but he did brilliantly to set up the 2nd goal and thereafter was much better. I note the popular vote for Nick Ross but that view certainly wasn't shared by folk around me when the announcement was made that he was the sponsors MOTM. Again he had a very tidy game with excellent first touch and short sharp passing (including eye catching back-heels) but he rarely opts for a penetrating pass if a safer short pass is available and he also seems to lack the confidence to shoot. With Tansey and Raven out it was very encouraging to be able to bring players of the calibre of Christie and Vincent off the bench. It shows we have excellent depth in the squad. It was also good to see young Sutherland get a brief outing. He looked pretty sharp and was unlucky not to get on the end of a low cross following good work on the left by Tremarco and Doran.

Without the initiative I doubt the crowd would have been much more than 2500 if that. Clearly it has attracted a lot of extra folk but that in itself does not make it a success. Success will be measured in 2 respects: firstly on whether we got improved gate money and secondly on how many of the extra crowd were new or very infrequent attenders and who may be persuaded to come more regularly. On the first point it really goes without saying that if the overall income from the game (including 50:50 sales etc) is less than for a full price game, there is no point doing this regularly. If income was down then it might still be worth doing as a loss leader occasionally if it can be shown that it brings in more folk to other games. Had I not been a season ticket holder I would have still paid full price and it will be interesting to know how many paying customers actually did that (or more!) On the 2nd point it is important to recognise that just because the gate might have been 500 -1000 more, that does not mean that all these extra folk were potentially new supporters. There are a lot of people who go to a few matches each year and I suspect that the initiative will have persuaded a lot of these folk to choose last night's game as one to go to. The club will get more money out of these folk if they took in this game as an extra, but less if it was just part of their annual "ration". Of course, the initiative was aimed primarily at folk who have never been before or who have only been occasionally. The hope is that these folk will have liked what they saw and will come back. There were undoubtedly a good number of new folk in the crowd yesterday, but did they like what they saw? The person next to me brought 2 mates with him and from the comments I was hearing they certainly won't be back. Despite the favourable comments on the matchday thread, these folk were not impressed. They had no time for the patient build up play and generally felt it was all a bit boring. Watching top level football on TV was what they preferred. I think the last point is important because TV tends to spoil folk and lead to unrealistic expectations. If people simply want to be entertained by watching the highest quality football then the fact is that we are never going to be able to offer that. But what the club can offer is good football with the added emotional attachment of supporting "our" club. It is that sense of belonging and engagement that enriches the overall experience. If these folk can somehow be persuaded that ICT is their team and they can develop that emotional attachment then they will come back. That is is easier said than done and I guess that the club just has to keep plugging away at all levels in the hope that bit by more people will begin to feel that ICT is their club. Whether last night will be judged a success or not, it was certainly a very positive intiative. Well done to the Board and well done to Yogi and the boys for a decent performance.

HT 0-0 FT 2-0 ICT Mckay Opp O'Halloran Time 63 mins

Temperature's are expected to pick up a little with temperature hovering around freezing tomorrow night. Assuming the pitch is currently covered there shouldn't be a problem. As for the comfort of fans, it is the wind and wet that really chills. Winds should be light and it should be dry so as long as folk wrap up they should be cozy enough. Should be a good evening for a game of football - if people are going to use the weather as an excuse not to go to a game where they are able to pay only as much as they want, then I suspect they are not destined to become regular attenders.

Look on the bright side - at least they made the decision early enough so you could simply turn round at the first roundabout South of Inverness

Presumably some sanctions will be taken against Utd if the pitch was still frozen. It may be winter with a bit of snow on the ground but it is just typical winter weather with temperatures only a little below freezing at worst. These are not exceptional conditions and there are games going on around the country on pitches with no undersoil heating. If Utd have had the heating on for as long as they say, you would have thought someone might have checked that it was actually working. I think a 10 point deduction would be in order.

Good advice - but in the spirit of this thread, if folk get into difficulty they can always call the A.A.

Is this an unnecessary late contribution to the last referendum, or the opening salvo in the next one?

I see that Mackay-Steven has now signed a pre-contract agreement with Celtic. Having done so, that rules out the chance for anyone coming in with a bid which meets or exceeds Utd's valuation of him. Or does it? By definition it is not a contract so is it actually legally binding? I suppose the attraction of such arrangements for players is that if their new club does not have to pay a transfer fee, they can afford to offer the player better terms. Only cash rich clubs or those desparate to strengthen their squad in the window will be prepared to pay a significant fee and offer attractive personal terms to the players. Other clubs will focus on offering contracts to players when their existing contracts are coming to an end. The consequence of this is that apart from very big clubs making big offers for exceptional players, any offers for even pretty good players are likely to be modest. Sheffield Utd's offer of £80,000 for Mackay-Steven being a case in point. This highlights the need to try to get players tied up on longer term contracts. The club has made positive moves on this in the last 2 or 3 years and is no doubt thinking long and hard about what they have to do to keep those whose contract are up at the end of the season. It is understandable that players want to further their careers and earn more money, but they do need to recognise that sometimes the best way to further your career is to stay put. As far as Billy Mckay is concerned, he is currently at a club where the style of play suits him and where the manager (and fans!) will stick by him when he is not scoring. If he maintains his current form he has every chance of European football next season together with league and cup success. Being here has also not prevented him from playing at international level. Where else will he get those opportunities? He would find it hard to maintain his place in any other side which offers those possibilities and he risks sinking without trace if he cannot secure a regular starting spot. Of course other clubs can offer more money but there is a balance to be struck between playing regularly with the realistic opportunity for success, and the money. I just hope the club can make a good enough offer so that on balance Billy (and others) decide to stay here.

HT 1-0 FT 2-1 ICT Warren Opp Ciftci Time 32 mins

Whilst artificial surfaces provide a better playing surface, a poor playing surface has resulted in some of the most memorable moments in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjZtz0JpV0 This is one of the great FA Cup moments and would never have happened on an artificial surface. Sadly Hereford utd have gone out of business this year but at least at least the game's administrators and the sharks that ruin some football clubs can never take away the memory of this from the folk of Hereford.

League attendances are inflated by season ticket holders. Sorry, you'll need to expand on that as I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting Season Ticket holders don't attend Cup games? I take it that Alex is referring to the fact that the official attendance includes all season ticket holders whether they attend the game or not. This is on the basis that having paid for their season ticket they are deemed to have bought a ticket for the match. Season ticket holders will only be included in the figures for a cup game if they buy a ticket for that specific game. It would be interesting to know how many league games the average season ticket holder fails to attend. In addition to the usual percentage of season ticket holders who don't attend the average game, there are no doubt some season ticket holders will decide to give the early round cup matches a miss because it means paying a bit more. Both these factors will lead to reduced gates. It always surprises me that crowds at early round cup games seem to be so poor these days. I am one of those who thinks that there is something special about cup football and I have always made more of an effort to get to cup games than league games. I guess I am in the minority!

I think that there is an inevitability about this. As Caley D and others have outlined there are so many advantages that when the technology improves a bit more to iron out some of the remaining issues, this may well become a requirement for top level teams. At the moment there probably are issues around the height of bounce and the speed at which the ball comes of the surface but I don't think these should be seen as major obstacles. Given the propensity for grass football pitches to cut up, the more consistent surface of an artificial pitch should support greater skill. It is just a question of the players getting used to the feel of the surface - not difficult given the fact that the bounce and roll of the ball on a grass pitch varies from match to match depending on the firmness of the pitch, the length of the grass and how wet the grass is. Indeed, currently these things often vary in different areas of the same pitch as a result of drainage and shade issues. A further advantage of an artificial pitch is that it opens the way for indoor pitches which would make the prospect of watching an evening game in January rather more appealing than now. Whilst a roof over the TCS is not a realistic proposition, the ability to use artificial surfaces for a huge range of sports and the fact that they can be easily covered to accommodate concerts etc, means that new build stadia could increasingly be used in a very much wider social context. These other activities would provide the income stream necessary to pay for such good quality multiactivity complexes. In my view there will come a time before too long that the idea of playing a top level football match on a grass surface will be as unthinkable as holding a major athletics meet on a cinder track. The question must be one of when rather than if we get an artificial surface.