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Everything posted by DoofersDad
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I don't know what to make of that. Obviously it was great to end the season with a win, end in 5th rather than sixth and to beat last year's points tally. Great also to sign off the season with an excellent last minute goal from Greg Tansey. But what do we learn from the match to take into next season? It was very much a game of two halves - again! First half was dull with very little action. Lots of sideways and backwards passing culminating in a pass back to Brill from Shinnie of all people from inside the opposition half! Second half was much, much better. It looked as though the half time team talk went something like "OK boys, forget everything I've taught you and just go out and play your natural game and give it a right good go!" We were much more threatening when we were more direct and attacking with pace and width. But then after the match Hughes in his interview was saying that we'd not been passing it quickly enough and we needed to up the pace of the game. He said the players were taking on board what he was trying to do and it showed in the second half. It does seem to me that the way we played in the first half was how we've tended to play since Hughes came in (ball to feet) and the way we played in the second half was how we were playing in the first half of the season when when we were 2nd (ball into the spaces). If how we played in the 2nd half was the way Hughes wants the team to play then that's fine by me but it certainly contrasted sharply with the style of play we have only witnessed since Hughes came here. The conclusions I reach are:- We have a very talented squad of players who are capable of playing very exciting attacking football. We have a manager who in recent weeks has had the team playing in a style which is boring to watch and which has been very unsuccessful. We have a manager who today takes credit for a 2nd half performance which was much more in the style of the team before he took up post. I have no idea what Hughes really wants from the team and consequently no idea of the style of football we are likely to witness next year.
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Of course I agree that we should be trying to get sales up regardless of the whether sales are up or down, but the point surely is that it will be easier to do that if you know the reasons why those who you might most expect to buy tickets are not buying them.
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Result never in doubt. I suggest prize to BA5 for being first with the correct guess.
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I never suggested that people's decisions to buy will be influenced by season ticket sales and I agree the club has done well to hold prices. My point is simply that you can't have a debate about why sales are up or down if you don't know what the figures are. I'm not sure why you would be concerned that the press might use the figures for comparison with Aberdeen. So what if they do? There is the view that any publicity is good publicity and in any case it should be used as an opportunity to respond to the reasons some people may give for not renewing season tickets. Not being open with the media about the numbers being sold only suggests the club has someting to hide.
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In terms of league position our last 2 seasons have been our best 2 seasons ever and we have Terry Butcher to thank for that. On a very limited budget he and his management team did an excellent job in finding latent talent and fashioning them into a team that could compete well in the top half of the SP(F)L. The sad thing both for the club and himself personally is that both seasons could have been better still. Both seasons saw us riding high in the league before Butcher decided he would capitalise on the success and head off to bigger clubs. Last year the aftermath of the Barnsley fiasco resulted in a significant drop in form when the players realised that despite all his praise about the loyalty of the players, the manager had no loyalty at all and was keen to leave. This year Butcher renaged on his commitment to the club and left and his successor has been unable to maintain the early season form. I am convinced that without the Barnsley fiasco we would have captured a European place last year and despite both Aberdeen and Dundee Utd being stronger this year, with the start we had, we could have finished higher and perhaps gone one better in the cups. As SP points out, had Butcher had faith in the team he had fashioned and gone on to win a European placing or a cup with ICT then his own stock would have risen immensley and he could have attracted a bigger salary elsewhere. But we've won nothing and he's won nothing. We are a small club and may never have such a good chance of success at the top level of Scottish football again. The Rangers, Hibs and Hearts will all return stronger in the next few years and it will be harder than ever to make that breakthrough. There is a feeling the Butcher took the team to the brink of that success but then snatched it away from us in order to satisfy his short term financial greed. The success of the last 2 seasons is a bittersweet success because we know that it could and should have been better. In denying us success, he has also denied himself success. The irony is that whilst the club has still enjoyed relative success, his opportunity for success may well morph into abject failure and leave his career in ruins. If so, he only has himself to blame and will get no sympathy from me.
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Over 40 replies and not one has actually answered the OP's question. There is a lot of conjecture about whether or not sales will be up or down and reasons given why they might go up or down. The subject of honesty and communication has come up and it would be interesting to have some honest communication from the club about how sales are going compared to last year. Remember that our support comes from a wide range of situations and viewpoints. It is great that there are those who support the club through thick and thin and who would continue to buy their season tickets even if we slipped to Div 2, but we also have supporters who go to games not out of any particular loyalty but simply because they enjoy a good game of football. If they don't feel they are being entertained then they won't fork out money to watch the team. It really doesn't help to brand them as fair weather fans as it only serves to alienate them and drive them away. Indeed, these are the people the club needs to reach out to because the club needs them to come more often and hand their cash over. That is why it is important to have factual information about season ticket sales. If they are down then there will be a reason for that and a need to understand and address the problem. Perhaps if someone could answer the OP's question we could start to have a sensible discussion on this thread.
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4 for Partick tonight. 30 mins ago they were 11th and now they are 7th. 37 games from the start of the season - crazy but great.
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Having a good laugh at County winning - must be a first!
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Club goalscoring milestone & trivia question!
DoofersDad replied to Sneckboy's topic in Caley Thistle
Someone said he thought it was that Canadian who played for us. Was it Richard Hastings? -
It's all quite entertaining but I still think whoever finishes 11th will win the 2 leg play off.
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For a number of reasons there is just something appealing about The Rangers, Hearts and Hibs all being in the division below us. Much as it sticks in the throat, I can't help but say " Come on you Staggies!" Now, where's the mouthwash?
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They've got a bridge and castle too.
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St Johnstone lost and Villa won.
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Absolutely. He wouldn't be in my starting line up at the moment but there is no doubting his talent. It's interesting to watch him in the warm up routines before a match when he is as good as anyone in playing the 1,2 with the coach and burying the ball in the back of the net. It doesn't happen on the park though and when he does have the opportunity to shoot he is more likely to pass. He is a good passer of the ball and his ball control is good. He has the ability to drift past players from time to time but doesn't do it enough. It maybe sounds silly but sometimes with the way he moves and his natural balance he reminds me a bit of George Best. But - and it's a big but, he doesn't pressure the opposition enough when they have the ball, as Caleyboy says, he doesn't fight hard enough for the 50:50 balls and he doesn't take enough responsibility for making things happen when he's on the ball. It is hugely frustrating because he has the potential to be a superb player. I think you have to accept that his physique is what it is and I agree with Ronaldo that it needs a good manager to get him to believe in himself and motivate him to show more aggression in his game. It may actually be Latapy rather than Hughes who can convince Nick of his ability and what he needs to do to realise his potential. Until he does toughen up mentally I can't see him featuring too much in Hughes' line ups.
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We were very definitely 2nd best against a pretty lacklustre Utd side. Makeshift defence did well but it was dull, dull stuff. Free kicks in the opponent's half being played backward. Loads of sideways and backward passing and little penetration. Only 2 efforts on target. This slow passing build up allows opponents to get back in numbers and have a wee rest as we pass the ball sideways and back in the hope of finding a way forward. There is precious little goalmouth action, few chances are created and undue pressure is placed on the back four and the keeper. It's football Jim, but not as we know it.
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Was it not simply to allow the crowd to show their appreciation to Ryan Christie who had scored on just his 2nd start and had been named as the sponsor's MOTM? No disrespect to Nick but a nice gesture to Ryan.
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Oh well. Now that the European dream is over I suppose we can expect Hughes to start experimenting with the way we play.
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We have come from being in a position of 2nd in the top flight to one where we have had 3 record defeats in 2 months and people think this thread has run it's course! Unbelievable! I would have thought there was plenty of scope for lively and constructive discussion. If people don't like the thread or are bored of it, the answer is simple - don't read it. If you do read it but are happy with current form and results then either give some constructive arguments as to why you hold that view or refrain from posting.
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That's what I like to see. A poster treating those with different viewpoints with respect whilst offering well argued justification for his own point of view. Caleyboy, you say that if we don't like it we should GTF. OK, lets Get The Facts. Hughes took over at a point when the team's performance and status was at it's highest level in the history of the club. Since then our results have represented relegation form. In March we lost 5 - 0 at Parkhead. That equalled our worst ever loss in the SPL The following month with no lessons learnt we did even worse by losing again at Parkhead but this time 6 - 0. Not only did this beat the unwanted record equalled in March, it equalled the worst defeat in the history of the club. March also saw us suffer a record home cup defeat. In all the years we were in the lower leagues and for all the years we were holding on in the bottom 6 of the SPL, the heaviest home cup defeat had been 3 - 0. It is now 5 - 0 When a club at the top of its game and with an excellent squad of players gets a new manager, some loss of form may be expected before things pick up again, but you don't expect to suddenly collapse to relegation form and suffer a series of record defeats. Personally I think it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned about this and to voice that concern. There are several on this forum who seem determined to vilify those of us who are expressing concerns. I assume that those who dish the abuse out are perfectly happy at the transformation in the club's results and the new records set since Hughes has taken over, but it would be really nice if they could, for once, explain why they are apparently happy with this state of affairs. If these facts don't concern you, then please tell us why! It would be far more positive than aiming mindless abuse at those of us who care enough about what is happening at the club we love to voice our concern.
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This thread's begining to get on my Wick
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What did Maud have to say about that? Was she annoyed at dropping two points? No she was preoccupied with her evening match with Keith. I hope that went better than when she fought William.
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Ah yes, must be positive so let me rephrase. What Hughes said was positively awful.
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If you weren't concerned before, you should be now. That's scary stuff. He dismisses the implied criticism by scoffing at the alternative of kicking it up the park and giving it back to Celtic to come back at us again. Well, to be honest I would rather give them the ball well in their half when we have 8 or 9 players behind the ball than on the edge of our box with only the keeper to beat. Getting the ball up in the opposition half removes the immediate danger and gives us a chance to pressure them into mistakes. But Hughes is quite clear that there is nothing wrong with the tactic of passing it around at the back - if it doesn't always work it is because the players are simply not good enough at it and need to get better. There was a fair bit of blaming the players in that interview - players heads going down and not sticking to the game plan when we went 3 - 0 down. Was going 3-0 down in the game plan? Was there no change to the game plan when it was clear it wasn't working? That must be one of the most uninspiring interviews I have heard for a long time.
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I welcome Davie's post as a constructive contribution to the debate. I share the concern about a schism in the support but can we please not question people's loyalty.It seems to me that there are probably 3 broad camps all of whom have the best interests of the club at heart. At one extreme you have those who want Hughes to go now because they are convinced he was the wrong appointment from the word go, whilst at the other extreme there are those who feel it is too early to even express any concerns about his performance to date. In the middle are those who feel it is too early to consider sacking him but who are concerned about what they are seeing. That is 3 broad views but the reality is it is a continuum of viewpoints between the two extremes. I think Davie's contribution is important because it actually helps to clarify why so many of us are concerned. I think we all share the vision of "a successful team playing passing football that entertains people and encourages them to fill seats in the stadium". But hang on a bit - we were 2nd in the league when Hughes took over. Weren't we a successful team playing passing football that entertained people? Of course, the vision must surely be to be more successful and play more entertaining football, perhaps by passing more and I think we all accept that some change is involved. But the issue here is not the vision per se, it is the practical limit of the vision and the strategy of achieving that. No doubt Hughes will learn to regret the Barcelona comments if he hasn't already done so. Of course we would love ICT to play like Barca but we all know it is not going to happen. There has to be some realism here. It is sobering to reflect on last nights Champions' League semi final between Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. Following his success at Barcelona Pep Guardiola is trying to instill the same style at Bayern and is having some success because they have world class players. However, they were humbled last night. An extraordinary statistic is that Bayern made 656 passes to Real's 287. For all those passes they only managed 4 shots on target. The message is clear. There may well be scope to have the side playing more of a passing game than in the Butcher era but this is surely a thing of evolution and not revolution. The concern many folk have is that Hughes has made radical changes for some games. Rather than rebuilding the playing style, we should have been building on the success we already had - success which was to a large extent built around the strengths of the current squad. Davie states "Hughes has had very few weeks where two (or three) games have not been the norm, so there's little time for coaching in there. there have been injuries and accumulated fatigue. It takes time, and that's what he should get." But that, surely, is the very reason why he should not have been experimenting with the playing style at this time. It does indeed take time but he has not given it any time - he's gone straight in and changed things at precisely the time when stability was needed. Going back to the stated vision it is important to remember this is not just about a passing game, it is about a passing game which entertains. A radio summariser on Sunday reported that the one time Inverness broke out of defence a passing movement ended with Draper passing the ball back to the keeper. That is not what I call entertainment and it will not fill empty seats in the stadium. I have no problem with the vision as Davie describes it, but the high flying status of the club when Hughes took over combined with the difficulties he describes called for a softly softly approach to change with tweaks here and there to build on what we already had. I also agree with Davie that things will be more difficult if a significant number of fans decide they won't buy season tickets next year. That is, of course, another reason for a softly softly approach to change Some fans will continue to support the team come what may, but we all know that many who come to watch will only come if the team is playing well and winning - that's life. Davie mentions that Hughes doesn't have a budget for increasing the playing staff, but that has no bearing on the slump in performance this season. We still have same players - it is the manager that is different. Indeed, because we have the same players and they are contracted for next season as well is a further reason for a softly softly approach to change - we will not have a squad hand picked by Hughes to suit his way ideal way of playing. By all means give the guy some time and I would support Davie's call for fans to get behind him and the team, but let's not pretend there is nothing to be concerned about.
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Can't wait to see what the next colour is