DoofersDad

Football-wise and financially I think the Germans will put them in their place

Speak for yourself

Would a restructuring provide an excuse to allow Rangers newco in? It seems absurd to try and rush things through for this coming season and would be unfair on teams in the SFL who would not have been aware that for the last quarter of last season they would, in effect, have been playing for a place in the top tier. It would be fine for those who suddenly find themselves promoted but they will still be at a relative disadvantage as they will not have planned pre-season with SPL in mind. Surely just another wind up.

What's the plan? Do the 11 players play in different positions each match to see which they're best in?

I would think there would also be a lot of SFL teams very unhappy about a Rangers Newco going straight in to the SPL. They currently get no benefit from Rangers being in the SPL but with Rangers not being admitted there is a better chance for them to get into the SPL until Rangers rise through the ranks and reassert themselves in the top flight. It will be very much to their financial advantage for Rangers to join at the bottom of the SFL. I also am sceptical about the warnings of financial problems for others in a SPL without Rangers. Surely this greatly increases the chance of others to win a European place and that can only add interest to the Scottish game. It has been boringly predictible for years. Now there is a chance for someone else to come 2nd and that might encourage better players to sign for the also rans of the SPL and the SPL to become more competetive as a result.

The Chairmen must vote against Rangers NewCo being admitted into the SPL. Caley D has eloquently laid out the reasons on another thread making the point that both Dundee and Falkirk have submitted valid applications within the time frame required. But for me there is a further important reason - one of precedent. If Rangers NewCo were accepted into the SPL it would be for one reason only - money. It would mean that the SPL chairmen felt that admitting Rangers NewCo would be to the financial advantage of other clubs in the SPL and therefore they would be admitting them for a reason other than merit. Currently, teams are admitted on merit with the team that wins the SFL gaining promotion. If Rangers NewCo were to be admitted, not on merit but because of the potential financial advantage they bring to the other member clubs, then what happens next year when Cowdenbeath romp to the first division title with Dundee a distant 2nd? Do the SPL chairmen admit Dundee rather than Cowdenbeath on the basis that they will bring more money into the SPL than Cowdenbeath? Admission must be as a result of merit and not of what is, to all intents and purposes. bribery.

Luke, I think you will find your hypothesis has not been proven. Most fans will defend anyone be it players, the manager, fellow fans etc, if they think they are being criticised unfairly. Where we differ is when we feel people (and the manager in particular) need to be defended. As far as the manager is concerned, he gets the chance to defend himself week in week out in the media and he is very capable of doing that (see - I'm defending him!). But as the person who makes the key decisions on the playing side, it is only right and proper that fans question him when we they have doubts and criticise him when they feel he has done things wrong. That is what a forum is for and if we stopped having that diversity of views the forum would be very boring and the club would be the worse for it. It really would be best if folk stuck to the arguments rather than criticise their fellow fans. We're all on the same side after all and share a common wish for ICT to succeed, we just have different views of how we get there.

Sorry DD but that's not what posters have said. It hasn't been a case of "don't get too excited" but definitely more "he's not good enough". Oddquine has very eloquently pointed this out and I'm certainly in her camp regarding giving these players a chance. Nobody's seen this guy play, but several posters claim he's not good enough - on what basis? OK he's a late starter, but that might just mean no-one's noticed him as he's not been in the shop window. Isn't that the same as the Hull striker Steve Bull, who hit the headlines with a late starting career - and then went on to play for England! I'm with Oddquine. Give the new guys a chance, don't write them off before you've seen them play, and don't p*ss them off by writing negative drivel that they might read before they've played (or even signed). Positivity can breed success, but negativity will certainly breed failure. I think you need to go back over this thread and read the posts again. I think only KenCar said he wasn't good enough and if you read his post it is pretty clear he meant it not in a literal sense as he, like the rest of us, have not seen the lad play, but in the sense that in general we would not expect players playing in struggling conference sides to be what an SPL club is looking for. Read ICT Paisley's excellent post at number 68 for an example of a more considered view of the news. And who is not for giving the boy a chance? It's not that people aren't prepared to give him a chance, it is just that some of us don't have unrealistic expectations of him. The lad himself has talked about the move being an opportunity to advance his career so I hardly think he is going to p*ssed off by supporters who wish him luck but feel he will have to prove himself. What may well p*ss him off is people such as yourself and Oddquine who seem to have such low expectations of what this club needs that he will be thinking he's taking a backwards step by coming here. What I do agree with you is that positivity can breed success, but negativity will certainly breed failure. The question is who is being positive and who is being negative here? I explained in my post why not getting excited over Warren's potential signing is a positive stance to take. I can think of few things so negative as meekly accepting that signings of players with no particular track record from struggling conference sides is the future for an SPL side.

What folk are saying is that we should not get too excited about a player whose only full time football has been with a club that finished 19th in the conference and who, incidentally, has actually not signed for us yet. Terry may have unearthed a real gem and I am sure that if he signs we will all wish him well. But I don't think it is being negative at all to suggest that those who appear to think that this signing will be our ticket to European glory should tone down their expectations. With regards to Tokely, he was 17 when he signed for us and we were in Division 3. There is no comparison. We are an SPL side and fans would like to think that one year we will have enough success to win a domestic trophy and get a shot at European football. Signing players from the lower reaches of the conference does not fill me with expectation that this success will come next season. That is not being negative, it is being realistic. The manager will sign who he signs. Hopefully the new signings and those already here will gel into a good unit which will help bring the fans in and we can build from there. I will support the team whatever it is but reserve the right to voice my views on this forum and elsewhere if I feel the manager is not making decisions which are in the best interest of the club. I think that's a positive thing to do.

Of course it is sad when fatalities like this occur but the reality is that the A9 is not a particularly dangerous road when you look at the stats. The road safety foundation regularly reviews road safety and rates roads based on the number vehicles using the road and the number of fatalities relative to that. On that basis, both the A9 (south of the Ord) and the A96 are rated as low to medium risk. The only 2 roads rated as high risk in Highland are the A833 between Drum and Beauly and the A86 between Laggan and Spean bridge. The 10 most dangerous roads in the UK are all in England and mostly in the pennine area and if you have ever driven on some of those you will realise what a pleasure it is to coast along on the A96. The statistics clearly show that dualing roads significantly increases their safety and so it makes sense to do this. But when you look at the stats more generally the reality is that the dualing of these important trunk routes is unlikely to be seen as top priority from a road safety perspective. It makes more sense to look at specific sections where accidents are more common and campaign for road safety improvements to address these identified black spots. The argument for more extensive dualing is more a journey time issue than a road safety one.

On hearing the news that Ross Tokely has signed for County, his ICT contract package is returned to the suppliers.

I'm far too worried to think about panicking.

What is it with this attitude that if you post something critical or even just express a bit of concern the suddenly you are not a supporter of the club? It's nonsense. Most of those who are expressing their concens on this forum are doing so because they support the club and want it to do well. It seems some folk have lost touch with reality here and any difficulties that they might acknowledge are attributed to the financial position of the club and therefore somehow we are not entitled to be concerned about it. Let's look at just a coulpe of crucial positions in the side - central defence and striker. In central defence we have now let go or lost (however you want to spin it) 2 experienced and long serving central defenders who now play for a rival SPL club. As replacements we have a defender who suffered a serious injury last year and we really do not know how he will fare next year. Other players brought in to that position last year have left (so much for rebuilding) and the position is so desparate that folk are getting terrribly excited by a player who has played 3 seasons with Newport County who finished 19th in the Conference last season. And he hasn't even signed yet. Up front we have a striker who scored just 3 goals in 24 games and another (Shinnie) who, whilst he looked promising before sustaining injury last season is still to prove himself at this level. We made offers to our two leading scorers from last season but were unable to persuade either to stay. Other players have been offered contracts and despite being given a deadline have still to sign. Obviously they would rather be somewhere else too. Butcher promised to rebuild this side. Well he's certainly demolished the old side but where is the new? It's like building a house where you have been given an entry date and turn up a week before you are due to move in and find the roof isn't on yet. But no need to worry, Sir! It's all in hand. It may be that Butcher is the man for the job and will be able to bring in hidden gems from the lower reaches of English football. He has done so before but he has also brought some dross in. But when you compare our squad at the moment with others in the SPL you have to think of us as hot favourites for drop. So, in conclusion. Yes, I am worried but I will still be giving 100% to the team next season.

Fraser Dougal, will you let us know how they get on, please?

Sad day, but if he has been offerred a better deal across the bridge or feels more appreciated by the club there, then good luck to him. He's got a living to make I for one don't blame him. I feel strongly that Butcher made a big mistake to let Munro go and another one now to let Tokely go, but I'll not rant on any more about it. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say and it will be fascinating to see what next season brings. I think they are both good enough for the SPL, Terry doesn't. He's the manager and I'm not so I sincerely hope I am wrong and he's right. As I've said before, next season will be the one on which Butcher can really be properly judged. Obviously he will be judged by how well ICT do but he will also be judged by how well those players he judged to be not good enough do. One little word of advice for Terry though. If you're going to play wee Billy up front against Grant and Ross, can we please keep the ball on the deck?

Now that Tokely has moved on there must be shed loads of money to offer to someone else?

Let's hope they stay over there.

Once you've read that the blog in this link makes an intersting read. Just whose interests are Duff and Phelps looking after? - As if I didn't already know the answer! http://www.twohundre...nt.net/?p=19040

Hope Rangers fans have that date in September in their diaries.

Oh dear! And we were getting on so well just a few weeks ago. :love02:

It is commendable that there are so many people falling over themselves to defend the club over Tokely's apparent departure but let's get a bit of a reality check here. Of course we do not know what Tokely has been offerred or exactly who has said what to who and how the communication has taken place, but let's just reflect on what we do know. Ross Tokely has served this club better than any player in the club's history. He has a record number of appearances for the club having played and excelled in all four divisions. His contribution to the club is unlikely to be equalled. He deserves to be treated with respect. As players age there comes a time when despite their best efforts they can no longer play at the level the manager requires. Regardless of what I and many others may think, it appears that the manager thinks Tokely has reached that stage. Money is tight and a reduced offer may well be all that the club can afford even if the manager still thinks Tokely has a role in the side. The fact that Tokely has seen fit to speak to the press about his position shows that he is not happy with the club. Regardless of the detail of what has actually happened, this is not the way he would have liked to leave the club. This is how it should have happened. Well before the end of the season, the manager calls a meeting with Tokely. He acknowledges his superb contribution and loyalty to the club but tells him that finances are tight and difficult choices have to be made. The manager tells Tokely that he is trying to strengthen the team and that he would not expect Tokely to feature regularly in the following season. Consequently the best offer that can be made is significantly less than his current contract. He tells Tokely that he will understand if, in the circumstances, Tokely was to turn down the offer but he really would like him to stay. He also says that Tokely is much loved by the fans and if Tokely did not want to accept the offer that it would be good to have the position finalised by the end of the season so that an announcement can be made and the crowd can say "goodbye" to him and he to them. Tokely considers the offer and is not happy. He goes back to the manager and argues his case that his loyalty and committment deserve more. The manager expresses his sympathy but says that this is the best offer he can make. Tokely considers further and decides he can't accept it. He speaks with the manager and says that he is keen to play regularly and therefore reluctantly will have to turn down the offer. A statement is prepared and the manager says what a fantastic player Tokely has been and Tokely says what a great club this is and what a great guy the manager is. Tokely captains the side in the last home game of the season He is subbed 5 minutes from the end and leaves the field through a guard of honour of his team mates and to a standing ovation. After the game he does a lap of honour and the fans all bow down in homage. Tokely is a legend. There surely can be no doubt that he has not been treated with the respect he deserves. And before I get pounced on, let me say that I do support the efforts of this club but the management of this will deserve more respect from me and from others if they behave with a little more dignity themselves.

Have you tried Prince Phillip? Aparently he was sorry to miss the concert last night and may be looking for an alternative.

It's not just from Inverness, Dougal. I don't much see the buses from Inverness heading down to the Central Belt, but I'd be surprised if there were less than head down from Caithness and pass my bus on the road to Inverness on match days....or the ones I know head to Glasgow etc from Moray and ignore the existence of Elgin City. Don't understand it myself, unless it is a case of not really being a football fan at all, but just wanting to be someone who can say they support one of the two biggest teams in Scotland, have a drunken day out and, if lucky....or unlucky..... a good fight into the bargain. And how do the fans of Wick Academy view your jaunts over the Ord to watch one of the two biggest teams in the Highlands? I would like more folk living locally to watch ICT rather than other teams, but let's just respect their freedom of choice.

He may have had an offer deadline extended but is the old contract still in place? Is the club currently paying him? If not, he has left. That does not mean that he couldn't still accept the contract offer that remains open. If it does it will simply mean that he has re-signed. If he does sign then that will be a great signing for the club - he has plenty of experience and I have heard great things about the lad.

And presumably if Rangers go back to court again the legal expenses will come from the fund which should be being used to pay the creditors they have cheated out of millions.