Council Juice

I keep having this nightmare running through my head where we are 7 games in and we have 1 loss.... but only 1 win and 5 draws. I just get this feeling we really will have to scrap for results this season and if the team are not prepared for that we might struggle. The lack of a good replacement for Black- I personally thought in the 1st division, a level down, that role was tailor made for Vigurs but hey what do I know. It remains to be seen if any of our new signings are any better than him. The fact that most of the signings are young and promising is good. Up for a challenge I hope. Eager. Getting in one of Rangers or Celtics young midfielders on loan might be worth a punt.

The official site can be kinda slow mind. Best checking BBC or Skysports sources.

Given that Walter Smith wants his Rangers 1st team to have a maximum of 22-24 players I would think a 1st division outfit with no european competitions and much smaller infrastucture would be looking for nearer 20-22max with any cover filled in with youth or cost effective loan signings (ie parent club pay wages) 2 keepers, 7 Defenders, 7 Midfielders and 5 strikers giving us a squad of 21 would probably be sufficient. You cant have too many not in the match day squad at this level picking up wages for nothing.

The only reason we had an U-19 team was because SPL rules dictated it. The two outfielders who have been offered contracts are deemed to be as good as, if not better than, Vigurs and Wood and will come in cheaper. The reason both those players have been let go has nothing to do with their skill or ability. Its more to do with finance. People can comment till the cows come home about the board and the club letting talent go but the bottom line is, if we are to survive and recuperate from our relegation, we need to take stock, cut cost and rebuild. Not too sure about giving Kyle a contract though. Nothing to do with his ability but more his injury and what effect that could have on his confidence in the future. Not sure caleyboy, where your coming from about vast amounts of money being spent. In light of Vigurs and it being to do more with finances. Why offer contracts to Morais and McBain who would be on good money? One we were really gonna struggle to keep even if we did stay up and the other is approaching 35 and aside from an excellent work ethic isnt all that great. I think Butcher just didnt fancy Vigurs much as a player in either style or ability otherwise he would have featured more in the run in. On the topic header. I've heard that Shane Sutherland is considered a good prospect.

With Yogi off to Hibs. Falkirks interest will hit the backburner I would imagine. And with luck Foran will choose continuity over SPL status. Perhaps he fancies a promotion chase. Who knows. I also read in the paper that Kerr has rejected his cotract offer. Letting Vigurs go is no looking soo pretty now. Not that it ever did in my opinion.

No they haven't. Look how long it's taken Saint Johnstone to get out of there. Dundee, Dunfermline and Livi have never come back after relegation. I know you said you are trying to be optimistic but I think you are kidding yourself with that one. Dundee and Livi both went into administration before coming down and Dunfermline were not far off (paying players by cheque etc) Thats a major factor in why they havent bounced back. Only really Dundee have recovered financially from those days. We on the otherhand are only appearing to be releasing the players out of contract who never played and trying to keep the ones who do. We're not in financial mire. Falkirk would have went up alot earlier than they did if it wasnt for SPL stadium criteria. Aberdeen should have been relegated if it wasnt for that. Sometimes it takes team time to adjust. As long as we know we have a fight on our hands though, and that 3 or 4 other teams will reckon they have a chance to win the league and take our scalp. As long as we realise this early, we can go straight back up.

I thought Vigurs would be one player, who with his ggod eye for a pass, would have the potential to do a good job in the 1st. Would have aided his development no end and made him ready for the SPL step up. In the same way Hamilton done with McCarthy and McArthur (although he may not be as good as those two it could have worked similarly well) Perhaps his rumoured laid back attitude was not appreciated by Butcher. Tho I doubt Brewster would be one to tolerate that either and he ws giving hima game. As for the rest. Sutherland and Wood never made the grade, Gatheussi and Byrne never played. Mihadchjuks was decent but an unrequired luxury for the 1st Div. I am a little disappointed Vigurs is away but unlike Terry Butcher, I do not have the luxury of watching him train everyday. It is therefore difficult to critisise his decision in releasing an out of contract player when we are required to downsize. I am glad to see the club having ambition and trying to keep several players. There will be interest in Kerr, Morais and Foran though and if we failed to get all 3 signed it might backfire on the management unless they can find similar replacements. I am happy to wait until pre season though. Nothing gets done when players are on holiday.

Maybe their focusing on the backbone 1st. Well hopefully thats just the case. I really think Vigurs is a must keep. I heard good things from one of his former youth team mates. "quality" was the description.

Morais was on loan at St Johnstone before Hibs and was one of their best players. So he could handle it. I think with Kerr's situation pre ICT he might be up for staying put. There is a chance St Johnstone might fancy Morais back. Derek McInnes knows him and tried to keep him before Hibs came in. SPL over SFL, higher wages and not too disimilar geography might be tempting for the guy. I reckon Foran will go. Any of the other Bottom 6 could be interested, as well as ST J. I thought Eric Odhiambo was on loan from Leister. If so he'll be back down the road I'd imagine. Unless we attempt to extend the loan. Pavels will IMHO leave. Hopefully we'll let go 2 of Zadi, Gatheussi or Byrne(#1 preference) Keeping the likes of Duff and Vigurs must be priority as they are potential ICT stars of the future.

The board can only be critisised for acting too late. Getting rid of Brewter, Irregardless of any pay off, was one of the smartest most cost effective decisions they made. Fair enough we made signings late January - Pavels was Brewster, as was Morais and Gatheussi. Byrne came in under Brewster as well. Butcher only brought in Kerr and Foran. But they were probably needed anyway. Byrne and Gatheussi were the wasted cash. If the board hadnt paid Brewster and Malky off they would probably have lost as much, if not more in lost revenue on match days. For there can be absolutely no doubt the vast majority had lost all faith in Brewster - even the DoF's own son! And these same fans (or alot of them) would have stopped attending in protest. No gate money, no food revenue or programme monies. Merchandise sales would have plummeted as well. Also if Brewster had remained in charge, and no doubt taken us down in March, who, concievably would now have enough faith in the board to renew or buy a season ticket? Not I. That is a certainty.

Glad to see that after 5 years in the SPL not everyone has become dour gloom mungers! :( I honestly reckon we have a good chance to keep the likes of Munro, Tokely, Proctor, Djebi Zadi, Duff in defence and Hastings perhaps as well but perhaps one of the youth players may step in to the squad. In Midfield it is just as easily concievable Duncan, McBain, Vigurs, Imrie will be there, Sutherland and Gillespie etc have a chance to step up to the plate. Up front the likes of Rooney who's 6 SPL goals is nothing to be sniffed at and Barrowman who leapt before he could jump but has a chance to redeem, are both still under contract. Woods could also be a good SFL striker. Esson might fancy staying put for stability. Morais has recently said he feels at home, and not lonely up in Inverness. Kerr might not fancy leaving if he gets a firm contract offer from ICT. I reckon we'll lose Mihadjchuks and Foran, and whilst they have done a decent job I dont think it would be a massive loss. Also Morais might get a call from St Johnstone. Again he has the skill to unlock any 1st division team but there are others. We could have a look at the likes of Pat Clarke and Neil McGregor at Clyde. Both will be available and are decent players. We have options. We have a good nucleus. We just need to be confident. We need to BELIEVE!

I'd like to reitterate my topic opening line. Absolutely gutted Watching skysports news and seeing an R next to ICT was pretty hard to bare. I just see no point in dwelling on it.

Rooney and Barrowman in a team, down a division, on the front foot. Probably player together have the potential to do really well. We might even cash in. Who knows? The Highland derby has served up some of the best banter ever. I thoroughly enjoyed it. And to be honest missed it when we were in the SPL (obviously I'd rather have SPL football that a singular derby game) Finally the only good thing about playing the filth was tv coverage and the money their fans brought with them. I'd be glad to see the back of the bigots and plonkers associated with those two clubs. Unfortunately they come with the money. Part of the package. But I dont think as a fan I'll terribly miss playing them for a season (assuming we will bounce back)

I'm trying very hard to get behind this thread.... You've made a lot of depressing points with it, all the same.... Such as?

If we keep Zadi too I think he would be ace in the 1st with his crazy bombing runs. And He wouldnt get caught out anywhere near as much (in theory anyway) C'mon get behind the thread. I want happy thoughts people!

Under the present management team I can't see us achieving much better than a middle of the table position next season. It is now apparent the "Butcher Bounce" wasn't quite long lasting enough to save us from the drop. Oh C'mon, We were 5 points behind in January and they so nearly did it. ! point. Just one point. Hell 3 more Hamilton goals would have done it! To start questioning if we have the right management team is really pointless and short sighted. Hey lets bring back Robbo!

keep who we can, kerr foran toke's lionel morais hav 2 stay... keep things as were,,, **** eat and sleeep as premier team, change as little as possible from this season, think premier we will be premier, Fek we shood be aiming for EUROPE!!!!! I dont nessesarily think we need to keep Morais, Kerr, Foran or not all three at least. Doubt Toke's would leave. Knowing him he'll be on a solo mission for us to win the league! Lionel could be ace in the 1st. And on the topic. Ok technically I dont have a season ticket so for me to vote yes was a little misleading, however Im really considering getting one - something I dont think I would have if we stayed up. Its like a seige mentality, get behind the team think in my head. I'll defo be going to hella lot more games for sure!

Absolutely gutted with our SPL demise yesterday. Gutted. Not a good hangover cure and not a nice birthday present! But I've sat back and thought about things and I dont think things are all that bad. Here are my top 10 reasons for optimism: 1. We should keep the core backbone of the team. Fair enough Black and Fraser are offski. Morais, Foran, Mihadchujks, Kerr, Byrne (anyone care) will likely be off as well. But with Esson, Tokely, Munro, Duncan, Proctor, Hastings, Imrie and McBain all still at the club or very likely to stay we have a very strong core in the team. 2. Rooney and Barrowman also have longer term deals. Fair enough Barrowman hasnt been great but with us being on the front foot next season in most games (I'd like to think) and playing two up, as well as dropping down a divison I think they could destroy teams in a Wyness (Barrowman) and Ritchie (Rooney) style way. Or we may cash in on one? 3. We have promising young players who if we fight to keep and get signed up will get a chance and with the rest of the experience in the team will proper in the 1st Divison. Players like Duff (replaces Pavels) Vigurs (Black) Zander Sutherland perhaps? (Morias) Gillespie (kerr), and others. 4. The likes of Kerr (who struggled for a club pre ICT) and Morais (who likes it up here according to interview) could well decide to stay if given the choice. 5. We'll get the proper Pie n Bovril 1st division match banter. 6. We get the Highland Derby next season. Bring back the caravan jokes. Ressurect "We're top of the League and your no" 7. Reduced ticket prices. No excuses to stay away. Its Recession busting! We should be looking to win most games, playing football, the proper ICT way. Get the city behind the team! 8. 1st division food is better. Shame clyde are down :( lovely steak pies :D :( 9. No old firm. No complete write off because journo's cant be bothered finding out about us. No SPL Old Firm central belt bias. 10. And most importantly for all the reasons above I'll attend more games. You really couldnt wish for more!

Having spoken to unbiased non ICT or Falkirk fans most of I have spoken to felt it was harsh. Tokely was getting round the other side of his man touched his shoulder, he went down. If thats a drag or pull then the players may as well start playing tag football with no contact allowed whatsoever. It's also debatable to call it a CLEAR goal-scoring opportunity. Mihajdchuks was in close proximity, the ball was not under control, it was outside the box. Its Steve Lovell (he would have contiunued on and most likely picked up an injury as opposed to scoring) I think in these circumstances a referee should not just be looking at the letter of the law but deliberating if there was malous or intent from the offending player which in Tokelys case is highly debatable. If we're talking about blame, where was Lionel Djebi Zadi for the run down the right side for the goal cross? Why did Foran miss? Why did Imrie when cutting inside not try and keep his shot down for once? We will never know. Whats done is done. In saying all this, He DID get sent off, we DID lose, we ARE relegated. Anything else is irrelevant. Lets look forward to next season. (i'm going to start an optimism thread) Get behind the team and bounce straight back up.

To be fair, Hastings was far from impressive in the 1st half of the season and according to pre match talk last week aint match fit anyway. Gatheussi hasnt played and has a reputation similar to that of Lionel in terms of a little dangerous. Byrne is not the answer. I'd maybe take McBain there but Zadi hasnt been that awful. Dropped a few clangers but so have alot of players. Good cross for Imrie in the midweek game too. He is a little unpredictable. Gets the heart going a bit but i wouldnt say there is currently a better option available at present taking form ability and fitness into consideration.

Does it have to be a Caley thistle team? I mean i reckon i could get a team but none of them are Caley supporters. Also I would be willing to volunteer for anyone elses team too if looking for numbers for a caley team.

Did Hastings not pick up an injury when TB got the job, or thereabouts. 2ndly he isnt fit... yet so isnt back in the team. I wouldnt play Gatheussi there. From what I hear from a fair amount of Hibees , he's every bit the bombscare Lionel is supposed to be. In fact I think they called him Theirri bomb-scare. So perhaps he isnt the better option. I'd take McBain at left back. Played there before. Good left foot. good engine. Fairly dependable and solid. No frills. Play Vigurs in front perhaps?

Got injured, Tokely has moved in there and performed fairly well. Not really much else in it i would imagine.

Seems to be a lotta who hah ing over a hypothetical near impossible scenario. I just dont see why Esson was dropped in the 1st place. I thought he was doing well and never heard of anyone critising his kicking - no matter how superiors Ike's allegedly is.

Jimmy Calderwood shows his dismay upon hearing the tanning salon will be closed for the bank holiday weekend.