Council Juice

- I reckon this might give an insight into the characteristics and localised accents in the south west central belt area.

I don't think he said that at all. He was pointing out the fine line between qualifying and not qualifying and used a missed chance as an example. The Daily Record then applied their spin and made it into a back page story. But he could have used a little more savvy than single a moment out. David Taylor despite being useless at least was smart with the press. Worked his political socks off and gave little away. I guess there are many ways you could look at it but one things for sure. We need radical changes in the way youths are brought into the game to have any success in the future and following the Dutch is the way to go.

On the point of Argentina definitely qualifying. Dont forget Uruguay have Forlan and Im pretty sure that Ecuador have had an awful qualifying campaign thus far. Could still be all on by the last game and I'd have to take Uruguay in that if all was on the line. Thats if Maradonna still has a job. But I still think the 3 front runners will be Spain, Holland and Brazil. With England and Italy after that. If the likes of France and Portugal qualify they can also be in the mix.

Would you expect Liverpool fans to support Man Utd in Europe? Or Rangers supports Celtic? While some say they want their teams to do well in Europe they still take every little bit of glee they can from it if they do get knocked out. Its rivalry. Its Football. So I dont want my rivals to win the World Cup. I think thats fairly justified. And theirs nothing more annoying than Lee Dixons smug mug when we get beat. I guarantee I'll see it today on football focus. Then theirs that newspaper guy on Sky sports news. And the guy who does the morning report. Faces like cheshire cats discussing our mess and then talking up the English chances. There are several English sporting figures who do poke fun, but its usually in the most patronising smug way possible. Not a joke. Its smug. Up itself. Then its also worth remembering the Highland clearances. U must realise that alot of the guys on here are actually old enough to remember the persecution, murder and rape of the people there. It cut deep. Ever been in a London taxi with a Scots accent. How about double fare and out and out racism in your face. Ya big bunch a bullies you. Well your no gettin ma lunch money! (please excuse my outburst. My english Primary 6 teacher made me write a letter of apology to an English pupil for saying England are Sh*t (the team and he knew i meant that) before the Euro 96 game which was made worse after we were beaten. I was a little too young to tell her where she could shove her letter of apology but Im still bitter - oh and only scottish people spit by the way)

Cheers again guys.

I do agree with you there. It was wrong of Boyd to spit the dummy though I do think Burley could have done something better than rounding on him in the press conference. He made a mistake in Iwelumo and still had a sub remaining at the end and could have at least tried to see face to face what Boyds thoughts were after he cooled off. But Boyd is a grown man and should have shown maturity. Magregor and Ferguson were nothing other than idiots. No idea what they were playing at with the V's no matter what their reasoning and the SFA, not Burley handled the situation very poorly. Ferguson was spot on in saying that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. I dont think Burley had much choice in going with the SFA to ban them and THEY made him look a very lame duck. Having the likes of George Peat coming out and saying it's all Iwelumos fault (was Peat ever a pro? even the best miss them.) and that it hasnt been good enough etc on the eve of the game and on the day Smith saying that he doesnt enjoy watching Burley's Scotland. (I must point out that i dont think these interviews were ever given at the time but probably some time before the game and the tabloids were perfectly willing to sabotage the teams efforts i order to sell papers. I think the same is probably true with the Ferguson interview as well) It just seems that the guy carries no luck at all.

We generally always have looked to finish 2nd and often have. Brown got us to Euro 96 via either play offs or best runners up (cant remember). We got to 98 as best runners up. We got to the Euro 2000 play-offs v England- lost 2-1. No idea what happened for 2002 world cup. Cant remember at all. Berti got us to play off v Holland in 2003 for Euro 04- Won 1-0 at Hampden but they got through on a technicality. For 06 World cup Berti had us bottom and dying but in stepped Smith and took us to 3rd after a final day defeat to Belarus(blip) McLeish took over reigns and after beating France in Paris took us to within a whisker of topping the group. In a group which contained Italy and Ukraine as well. Burley was given a group in which if we beat Macedonia and Iceland home and away and a victory at Home against Norway we'd be in play offs. He failed as did Berti.. who lost his job may i add. I'd also say Vogts had a much tougher task in that he had to rebuild a team in which Lambert, Collins and Craig Burley had retired from. Alot of others were over the hill and nobody obvious was coming through. We used to panic if Steven Crawford wasnt going to make it. Thats how bad it got at one point. Burely had a settled squad who nearly qualified as winners ahead of the world champions and then went about dismantling it.

I'd really like someone who doesnae talk p*sh so pdunno bout either. I'd like Levein just because of his ability to get the best out of his teams and their general strength in set pieces. Add to the fact he talks sense and is definitely not a yes man (ask Hearts and SFA) The latter probably stopping his chances of getting job for now. We aint gonna get any Premiership manager (money) and we often appoint managers out of contract. I'd look at Darren Ferguson at Peteborough, Billy Davies again perhaps. I'd take Strachan I suppose. Not McGhee, not Souness.

Must be noted that no European team has every won a World cup outside of Europe. Then again South Africa in June is much like Northern Europe so of all the places that may look like changing it's gonna be there. Lets hope not eh?

Alot has been said over the last couple of days over our, yet again, abject failure to qualify for the world cup. Some want Burely out. Some everyone at the SFA. Im using a quote below as it forms a base for most of my points and counterpoints. I think it might be worth getting a technical director in who isnt from Scotland. A Dutchman for example. Someone to come in with a different philosophy and start it from grass roots level. Too many times do you hear that lads arent big enough at 14 years old. Then they get the boot and 2 years later have grown a foot but have given up the game. Why do they not look at the Man Utd system, the Arsenal system and the West Ham system, who teach players to not only have a winning mentality and how to actually play football as a team. Burley has made mistakes and is right to admit he has. Took him long enough. He's made far too many personel mistakes in needlessly singling out players and critisising them ie Broadfoot being limited, Weir too old despite being the most experienced defender still playing at the top (champ league) and having played in the best league in the world. Not only that he is by far our best defender. He went with too many friendlies early on against hard opposition ie Czech Rep and Croatia... as well as Argentina. If you want to experiment, and that he did, you dont do it against the top teams(irregardless of their current form). Boyd was wrong to spit the dummy but i'd take him back certainly. Why he was continuously overlooked and only given 20 minutes game time in 6 games is ridiculous. I thought Burley wanted to play attacking football yet he never once went with the most natural striker we had. That brings me to my next point... his inconsistency in his selection policy. Kris Boyd was left out because he wasnt playing enough games. This despite having scored vital goal in both cup finals the previous season and finished as the top scoring Scotsman in the SPL. He was also among the top scorers despite not being a regular for his club at the time. That season he went on to become the top scorer in the SPL. Fair enough if he's not playing you dont pick him but everyone knows that if you play him he'll score. That simple. but if you want to set a rule at least follow it through your principles. Here are a few examples. Shaun Maloney - Out injured for 4 months last season. Made 2 appearances. Called up James Mcfadden - Dropped 2 games before Norway game for loss of form- 1 goal in 13 for Birmingham. Called up and played. Stephen McManus - Not played since last season because of injury. Played 180 minutes. Craig Gordon - Started v Iceland despite not having played at club level for considerable length of time. Burleys line ups have often bewildered. Calum Davidson?! Having a laugh there are we not? Gary Teale? Alexander at defensive mid over natural defensive mid Hartley? David Clarkson in the squad?! I did agree with his call up of Kyle - He deserved chance. As does Riordan again (over Clarkson at any rate) Kris Commons flatters to decieve. Both he and Morrison are better in the middle. Not wide right. Being honest we could have been down 3 or 4 at half time against Macedonia if it wasnt for good keeping, Weir being in the right place at the right time more often than not, and good luck/poor finishing. Fletcher is completely right in that the team hasn't been good enough over the campaign. Some Burley defenders have pointed out that he plays more attacking football than former bosses. It might be worth pointing out that his team have scored less and conceded more than either Smiths or McLeish's teams. And not looked anywhere near as threatening. As a fairly poor team (which we are) Scotland need to be well drilled and efencively sound 1st and foremost. We should also take advantage more often from set plays. Burley doesnt like this style despite it being very effective. He wants the Argentina job clearly. I think Burley, unfortunately, with his PR gaffes and selection policy (in both squad and who he plays) has to go. For all the good play in the last 2 games we were lucky against Macedonia and beaten against the Dutch, albeit expectedly. It cannot be compared to previous campaigns in that we failed on last day games in that Smith had to completely revamp the team in one and in the other we had France, Italy and Ukraine in our group whereas Burley only had 1 really good team. I only hope we can avoid Souness.

Glad to see Gordon; Weir, Caldwell, Hutton, Brown and Miller starting. They pick themselves. D. Fletcher would too on ability but he needs to perform. Id much rather have a fit Chris Burke in there than Naismith but that is rare to say the least (and he isnt in the Squad) Im gonna sit on the fence and say 1-1

Think its a bit of a long shot to expect much from Naismith. Why Fletcher is not starting is confusing unless his cold he's meant to have picked up has ruled him out. I cant see Maloney doing much other than winning throw ins of dutch defenders legs. Burley always likes to throw a suprise in. Maybe one day he will have a tactical masterstroke but it aint really worked so far. Sometimes I think he does it to feed his own ego. Glad to see Whittaker over McAllister. No idea how Davidson got in ahead of him. That guy wasnt good enough 7 years ago and cetainly isnt any better now. Good to see a natural midfielder in Hartley in there instead of Graham "stopgap" Alexander. I refer to him as stop gap as he just seems to be there to fill missing gaps. Never actually does anything. Perhaps Darren Fletcher might not go missing for once after kick off as he has become accustomed to. We need him to show up, the rest to be at the top of their game and Naismith to be the tactical masterstroke we all hope he will be to even remotely think of getting a result.

Yep was him Im pretty sure. Where did he go again because thinking of it, Im also pretty sure it wasnt Elgin. And thanks to all who took the time to name as many youth players as they could think of.

Yeah I speakin to Ian myself at the game. Had some very interesting things to say.... Namely about how suprised at the low standards at Hearts compared to ICT and that he's trying to see if he can get back in January as he really misses the banter. ....Of course Im totally lying. Wasnt even at the game.

Hey dunno if anyone can help. Youth midfielder we had. Think we released him couple of years ago and he went to lower league club. Elgin perhaps but could be wrong. Really vague I know. I once got him confused with Vigurs on this forum if that helps.(dont know why) Someone described him as a good passer. Dunno if still in football. Hey why not make it a game. Take it in turn to throw player names at the thread and I'll congratulate the winner.

"Butchers Choice" :025: :025: :015: Are we suggesting he's the dawgs? Reading the thread and a few interesting points put across. I think its probably simply a case of Hastings was on a high wage and wasn't 1st choice. So was released/given to Hamilton and Butcher probably on deadline day asked Grassa if he knew of any decent cheap experienced available left backs and Golly's name popped up. I welcome him back. Was good before and will add much needed passion and commitment to the squad. Been there done that like most of our defenders so not totally a crazy signing. Could do with shaving a couple of years off but hey whatcha gonna do! Wouldnt have minded getting Hart back though- instead of him going to Dundee. He's a good 1st div player who didnt really get prolonged chance in SPL.

Also agree that it's unlikely to be an issue as I also think he wont be working at the SFA come the end of this week. But i'd imagine that George would be considerate enough to let him away for a friendly in Japan. He's got Elvis anyway. And Im sure Billy Stark could help if need be.

I had a feeling he might. He got called all the names under the sun... as did butcher for letting him go. Feel a bit better now. Im over it.

Diffinitely possible. I mean If you've ever been working somewhere or in an enviroment where several of your collegues or friends have went to pastures new then you can tend to feel left behind or forgotten about. Like a bit of old furniture in a newly fitted room.

Munro consistently finds the opposition central defence witha good long punt. Its no good but at least its consistent.

We've No got a shop and You do We've No got a shop and you do Can we have a loan?

Georgios, TB signed 3 players in January to confirm. Foran, Kerr and Odiamhbo Morais, Gatheussi, Mihadcjuks and Byrne were all brought in by Craig Brewster. With Morais scoring a double v Partick for CB in cup before we got beaten by Hamilton in the next league game. CB then got the boot. I dont really see Rossco as a great captain. When he's good he's good but he does tend to blow hot and cold on occasions. Not what you want in a captain. You really need consistency.

Also on the topic I think it's a little early to be attacking Butcher. This is only really his team now. Sure he brought in a couple in January to try and fix the mess he was left with. (remember He only really signed Foran and Odiambho. Mihadcjuks, Morais, Gatheussi and Byrne were all brought in by Brewster) Now he has some of his own players. A good deal of young and hungry guys (Sanchez, Eagles, Stratford, Odiambho) looking to get their careers going alongside 5 or 6 seasoned SPL and SFL campaigners (Tokely, McBain, Munro, Esson, Hastings, Duncan to name a few). He has a good blend and just needs to tinker with the balance. Fair enough in 10 games time if we're lagging then have a go but after a challenge cup game and 1 CIS game which we won both of is it really time to panic. Really?

Was he not one of our top scorers last season? got around 6 or 7?

I'd take Bayne back in a second. Got a great attitude and work ethic. Might rub of on Barrowman. And while he doesnt score alot, has a nack of getting important goals. Rooney should surely be able to cut it. He wasnt that bad in front of goal last season and now he's steped down. Barrowman really needs to step up. What about Denzil. Id take him back. Doubt he'd come back after way he was treated mind... and wouldnt recieve a better wage packet that he is on. How about just getting Juanjo?!