John Sutton and James McPake....two names being bandied in the courier. Constructive views please.

I will constructively Criticize, I will be bitterly disappointed if we have signed John Sutton. I just don't rate him at all. Not sure about McPake though, I will wait and see about him.

*Edited to include: I see Motherwell have axed 10 players including Shaun Fagan, and Adam Coakley.  Coakley might just be what we're looking for?

Well the last time Motherwell axed players we got Brown so who knows.

2 names mentioned but only 1 is a serious target and he doesn't play for St Mirren  :014:

We will probably sign half of the county team as they will be getting rid off their full timers very soon.

ICT shouldn't be thinking in terms of other teams' cast-offs... (Small team mentality - eh Johndo.?)

As it is looking less & less likely that St Johnstone are going up - a serious bid should be made for Jason Scotland....

Paul Ritchie is available on a free transfer this summer. Still only 31

ICT shouldn't be thinking in terms of other teams' cast-offs... (Small team mentality - eh Johndo.?)

As it is looking less & less likely that St Johnstone are going up - a serious bid should be made for Jason Scotland....

Simon Mensing would, for me be the pick of the St Johnstone Squad.. still only 23 but would add steel to the midfield or can play at the back, and at his age will still have scope for improvement at a higher level..

I will constructively Criticize, I will be bitterly disappointed if we have signed John Sutton.  I just don't rate him at all.  Not sure about McPake though,  I will wait and see about him.

*Edited to include: I see Motherwell have axed 10 players including Shaun Fagan, and Adam Coakley.  Coakley might just be what we're looking for?

Can't seewhy you don't like Sutton, he is still young, decent goal ratio and has looked a decent player whenever I have see him

ICT shouldn't be thinking in terms of other teams' cast-offs... (Small team mentality - eh Johndo.?)

As it is looking less & less likely that St Johnstone are going up - a serious bid should be made for Jason Scotland....

Simon Mensing would, for me be the pick of the St Johnstone Squad.. still only 23 but would add steel to the midfield or can play at the back, and at his age will still have scope for improvement at a higher level..

Yeah - ok - Go for him too -  :022:

ICT shouldn't be thinking in terms of other teams' cast-offs... (Small team mentality - eh Johndo.?)

Is that a serious comment?

As it is looking less & less likely that St Johnstone are going up - a serious bid should be made for Jason Scotland....

I wish. We could offer a pre-contract but with Cardiff rumoured to be after him there is no chance of us landing him.

ICT shouldn't be thinking in terms of other teams' cast-offs... (Small team mentality - eh Johndo.?)

Is that a serious comment?

It was meant to be serious - if certain players are no longer considered good enough for Motherwell & St Mirren - should they be good enough for us?

I take Alex's point about Mark Brown....

The impressive thing about Sutton over the years has been his ability to regularly score goals against us.

The impressive thing about Sutton over the years has been his ability to regularly score goals against us.

He's scored against us twice this season - Dargo has scored twice against them...

Do you think we should consider a swop?

Jason Scotland.........would love to see him here but would the SPL do a U-turn and grant him an extension work permit?

Simon Mensing.........think he'll be staying where he is.

I wouldn't say the Motherwell players were 'cast offs'. Are they not reducing their squad size (again) for financial reasons.

It was meant to be serious - if certain players are no longer considered good enough for Motherwell & St Mirren - should they be good enough for us?

Yes.

Dods was a Saint Johnstone "cast off" - and playing in a division below Motherwell whose "casts offs" aren't good enough for us according to you. He is a prime example of where we do our buying.

Players like Duncan, Wyness and Caff are all "cast offs" in one way or another or are Aberdeen cast offs seen as better than Motherwell cast offs? I wouldn't think so.

Regardless, players that are freed by their clubs in the SPL are going to be the ones we are likely to look at given our budget and I see nothing wrong in it if they have something to offer which many players int he past certainly have done.

Incidentally, Sutton would be far from a St. Mirren "cast off". He is doing the excat same thing as Dargo and I would love to have him at ICT.

Jason Scotland.........would love to see him here but would the SPL do a U-turn and grant him an extension work permit?

Simon Mensing.........think he'll be staying where he is.

I wouldn't say the Motherwell players were 'cast offs'. Are they not reducing their squad size (again) for financial reasons.

I dont think there would be any trouble with a work permit as I think he married his dundee bird. Doubt he would consider the SPL though if the Championship was after him. In fact one of the first things he said when he signed for Utd was everyone wanted to play in England and how that was his goal.

I doubt he would have realised his potential had he stayed at Tannadice but the system has failed both Dundee United and Jason Scotland over the work permit thing. Or at least that **** McLeod has :008:

Paul Ritchie is available on a free transfer this summer. Still only 31

There's only one Paul Ritchie.

You united fans really need to get over this  :015:

Macleod even spoke about it on the radio yesterday. The reason he wasn't granted a work permit was because he wasn't in his national team and therefore did not meet the requirements for the work permit. End of story. He wasn't even considered a first team regular by your management team at the time and just because he is now scoring for fun you lot seem to think you've been hard done by  :015:

Saw McPake play for Livi against County in February - he looked pretty nifty.  A defender very much in the Dods mould, but is much younger and possibly a little bit faster.

At the moment, with Dargo probably offski, I'd take Sutton like a shot - can anyone actually think of a better striker we could realistically sign?  I can't.

You united fans really need to get over this  :015:

Macleod even spoke about it on the radio yesterday. The reason he wasn't granted a work permit was because he wasn't in his national team and therefore did not meet the requirements for the work permit. End of story. He wasn't even considered a first team regular by your management team at the time and just because he is now scoring for fun you lot seem to think you've been hard done by  :015:

Not quite true there ken. He was granted a permit when he was brought here in the first place, and wasn't in his national team then so what changed when he applied for an extension, and how come the extension was easily obtained when St Johnston took him? Oh! and I'm not a united fan.

The SPL do not have the power to Grant or Deny anyone a work permit directly.  They will however have their own internal rules and regulations with regards to what constitutes acceptable terms and conditions for the sponsorship of a foreign player working within the SPL, just as banks have rules and any other company which holds a licence for sponsoring foreign workers.

A Canadian friend of mine who worked in Scotland for 2 (maybe 3) years on a general work permit and who wanted to remain here longer required the bank to write a letter of sponsorship saying that he was in their employ and they didn't envisage that changing under current circumstances in order for him to get that extension.  They refused and he had to return to Canada.

I would imagine the same rules apply to footballers, they can come here for X amount of time on a general permit, but for an extension they need a letter from club/employer (operating under SPL guidelines) stating they did not envisage that changing within the period of the extension applied for.  Given the nature of football and frequency with which players come and go then I'd imagine the SPL have a rather strict criteria for issuing such sponsorship and as was stated at the time Jason Scotland failed to meet that Criteria.

Given how backwards the regulatory setup is in Scottish football it is not unlikely (in fact it is highly probable) that the SFL have a different more leniant set of criteria which allowed Jason Scotland to obtain the letter of sponsorship required to allow him to continue working here.

You united fans really need to get over this  :015:

Macleod even spoke about it on the radio yesterday. The reason he wasn't granted a work permit was because he wasn't in his national team and therefore did not meet the requirements for the work permit. End of story. He wasn't even considered a first team regular by your management team at the time and just because he is now scoring for fun you lot seem to think you've been hard done by  :015:

Oh yeah, like he is going to admit the real reason on national radio :006:

ICT would feel hard done by too if you invested the time and money in scouting a player and then signing him only for some **** to try and have him deported. Wether he was a first time regular or not is irelevant. The reason we feel hard done by is nothing to do with him scoring loads and most arabs still wouldnt want him back anyway (me included).

A panel of 5 men to decide wether Scotland gets another work permit. All 5 men have Hibernian connections. Scotland has recently scored winner against Hibs at Hampden. Scotland denied work permit... How many other player can you name in Scotland who have been refused a work permit for any reason? Christ that Du Wei got one :015:

How many other player can you name in Scotland who have been refused a work permit for any reason? Christ that Du Wei got one :015:

{LINK}

I am a little confused over the criteria and didnt think the SPL could / could not grant a permit ? .... I know there is a UK HOME OFFICE rule that the player must have played OR BE EXPECTED TO PLAY in 75% of his country's last/next international games and that the country should be in the top however-many teams in the world (25 ? 50 ?) before a permit is granted. However, how is it that the SPL can refuse a permit whereas the SFL can grant it ? Is there a quota in each league ?

How many other player can you name in Scotland who have been refused a work permit for any reason? Christ that Du Wei got one :015:

{LINK}

I am a little confused over the criteria and didnt think the SPL could / could not grant a permit ? .... I know there is a UK HOME OFFICE rule that the player must have played OR BE EXPECTED TO PLAY in 75% of his country's last/next international games and that the country should be in the top however-many teams in the world (25 ? 50 ?) before a permit is granted. However, how is it that the SPL can refuse a permit whereas the SFL can grant it ? Is there a quota in each league ?

I think the Saints put forward a better apeal and Utd thought a new permit was just a formality. I remember an article in the paper a few weeks before the permit refusual with either Eddie or manager at the time (which one was it back then...)

saying something along the lines that "Scotland is expected to sign a new contract in the next few weeks on succesfull recieval of a new permit which is expected to be just a formality". Thankfully the Saints were able to put together a good appeal though and Scotland was allowed back in the country.

You united fans really need to get over this  :015:

McLeod even spoke about it on the radio yesterday. The reason he wasn't granted a work permit was because he wasn't in his national team and therefore did not meet the requirements for the work permit. End of story. He wasn't even considered a first team regular by your management team at the time and just because he is now scoring for fun you lot seem to think you've been hard done by  :015:

Not quite true there ken. He was granted a permit when he was brought here in the first place, and wasn't in his national team then so what changed when he applied for an extension, and how come the extension was easily obtained when St Johnston took him? Oh! and I'm not a united fan.

Don't shoot the messenger this is what Murdo McLeod said yesterday on national radio and apparently Scotland was back in the national squad when St Johnstone applied for a work permit. He even said he thought the rules were wrong and should be changed but the panel had no other choice because at the time he didn't fulfil the criteria

Anyway this is going a bit off topic. I doubt we could afford Scotland anyway, if the rumours are true he's heading for the Championship