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Stewards are just another reason why attendances are dropping all over Scotland,Do the people at the clubs not realise that they have to hold on to the customers they have left and start treating them with respect not like cattle Football fans all over the country are being treated like scum by people who crave a little authority that they wouldn't otherwise get in their mundane lives,a luminous jacket changes that and a large percentage of them cant wait to use their authority just clowns The Government really needs to get the bill for safe standing at football through in time for next season,the lack of atmosphere in grounds terrible and something needs to be done quickly,it works very effectively in many other european country's so why not here,Bayern Munich have a great safe standing sections which encourage a very vocal support,everyone has a standing number similair to a seat number,no problems

Nah he was trying to make himself look like a twit and succeeded Yeah, told me he had been on here taking lessons from you on that one

Like him or loathe him he was part of our first ever squad, was the first ever professional ICT player (or was it still CT at the time?) and won 59 caps and an International trophy with his country. Sounds like a pretty successful career to me. Maybe not the greatest or most popular ICT player but he's a big part of our history and always contributed whenever I saw him play.

Couldn't help but ponder whether or not that was code for "hope someone puts a match to him"

I couldn't care less if United/Motherwell go ahead of us. As long as the likes of Hamilton and St Mirren (teams on par with us) keep getting beat then I'll be happy.

I accept that clubs can (and do) ring-fence funds coming from external sources for things like the footballing debt and giving the business a boost post administration, but I think Dundee could find themselves on a very sticky wicket when it comes to setting aside money that the business itself has produced....time will tell whether or not it is allowed, but you can be sure that if it was an individual who was facing bankruptcy then the system doesn't allow them ANY control over their spare income, certainly not in terms of picking and choosing who they pay and who they don't. It also wouldn't allow them to pay off their mortgage to the tune of 6p in the ? and remain in the property, which is what seems to be the case with the Sandeman "debt". Hadn't read the 200% piece until today and have to say I find articles like that a little unfortunate. As you say, some valid points raised by the author, but I think he ties himself up a little and loses the point/impact of the article by allowing it to become long winded...which inevitably leaves it open to some inaccuracies and gives people an easy excuse to dismiss everything he says as a result. It's one thing to discuss and debate these things on a forum, quite another to take a position of authority and set them out there in an article or statement. Not sure you can so easily separate the legal and moral arguments either. I know I could never support something which went against my morals, no matter how legal they are/were....and I think my many protestations in regards the actions of ICT on certain matters over the years stands as testament to that. The reverse of that being that I could probably be more accepting of an illegal action if it was done for moral reasons. It's perhaps taking it a bit far to suggest the administrators at Dundee have done anything "illegal" as everything is out there to be seen by those who need to see it, probably fairer to look at it from the point of them testing the limits and seeing how much they can get away with. Whether or not that turns out to be acceptable in the eyes of the law and legislation isn't much of a factor in my thinking, I'm more concerned that their actions are simply serving to demonstrate to others how the system can be worked and, what should be considered suicidal financial risk. isn't actually all that risky when you can just write of millions of debt and continue as normal when it all goes wrong. I'm not claiming to be any kind of saint and I can push my luck and test the limits with the best of them, but I like to think that my actions are guided by a fairly sensible moral compass and that I would draw the line at doing anything which would have any far reaching consequences for people other than myself.....but then again, people might just think I'm full of shit!!!

Might turn out to be a decent appointment. Certainly got his work cut out for him

Channel 4 are making a documentary about Calderwood's time in charge of County called 'Big Fat Gypsy Manager'.

I'd have to go do some digging to get the source of the figures, but from memory Dundee had a low 6 figure sum of cash on hand when they went in to administration. That has totally gone and the only money they now have on hand to pay creditors is the £150k (or thereabouts) that they will get from the Supporters Association. As all debt is frozen at the time of entering administration and only day to day running costs/wages (including administrator costs) need to be met then that cash in hand has to have gone somewhere....certain day to day costs are unavoidable and if the money coming in can't meet them then the business is not viable. The only place it could have gone is player wages, an area where further cuts could have been made, but weren't. In other words, that cash in hand has been used to subsidise players the club could not afford within it's day to day budget. Spending more than you can afford to "remain competitive" is not an excuse and is exactly what got Dundee into problems in the first place. Then, to add insult to injury, the first statement that comes from the club after the announcement on the CVA is "We hope this lifts the transfer embargo"....yeah, great idea...you couldn't afford the squad you had before, you couldn't afford the squad you had during administration, so now the administrator is packing up his suitcase you want to bring in more players you can't afford. A sure sign lessons are being learned.....NOT!!! Whilst I don't think the current regime is the best I can't see any club voting for a change...even Dundee. In any other industry a business would find itself struck off from any related professional body for such a serious indiscretion (certainly would be for two in 7 years). Whilst Dundee may have claimed throughout this whole thing that the "vested interest" was used against them, I'm actually of the opinion that it is perhaps what saved them. I doubt I would be far off the mark in suggesting that every club in Scotland is one poor (financial) season or less from administration, and with so many other clubs teetering on the edge then none of them were/are going to set a precedent of expulsion or automatic relegation because they know they could easily be the next ones in the dock. They have to be seen to do something, but as I highlighted previously the 25 point deduction and transfer embargo served as no real punishment and, if anything, probably encouraged Dundee to continue spending a bit more on players during administration than they could really afford....in short, it would actually appear to have been counter productive in terms of teaching anyone a lesson or serving as a deterrent to others.

Great post from Caleytillidie. The thing is, rules is rules and where they are silly rules you need to apply a bit of commonsense in judging how far you can go in breaking the rules. Where stewards are inflexible, rude and aggressive, then it is best to sit down and watch the game. Goading them and getting thrown out is not clever. Having said that there have clearly been times where the behaviour of the stewards is worse than that of the fans they are dealing with and if they are out of order it is perfectly legitimate to complain. But for me, the problem is not so much the stewards but the rules they are required to enforce. Requiring fans to sit is a nonsense. We are left with the legacy of a massive over-reaction to the dreadful tragedy at Hillsborough which, in itself, was caused by a set of circumstances which were completely avoidable. The physical presence of seats prevents the kind of crowd surges which were common in the "good old days" but these could easily have been controlled by more barriers on the terraces and by sectioning off areas of terracing and controlling numbers in those areas. And in reality, the crowd surges rarely caused injury beyond minor scalding from a cup of spilled Bovril. With seats in place, standing does not represent a risk and therefore there is no good reason why people should not stand provided that they are not standing in front of others who wish to sit. If fans at the back wish to stand or jump up and down then they should be allowed to do so. As far as safety is concerned, the seating actually introduces greater risk in my view. Everyone is now channelled into often steep stair cases in order to exit the grounds and one person tripping could cause a significant incident. With the old terracing you descended on a wider front. The terraces had other advantages. Those who wanted to sing could group together far more easily with the result that there was better atmosphere in the grounds. It was also more social as you could move around to speak with mates you might have spotted in the crowd. And the stewards? What stewards? There was no need for stewards on the terracing because there were no silly rules to enforce. Their role was simply to stop folk getting on to the pitch If we want to get the soul back into British football it is time to put Hillsborough well and trully in the past and apply a bit of common sense at last. Bring back the terracing and bring it back soon whilst I am still physically capable of standing for 90 minutes.

IMO he was never terrific. Decent player, good servant etc, but at no stage was he ever one of our best players, even in the lower leagues. It's just a pity he never fulfilled the potential he showed in his first few years. After becoming a Canada regular at quite a young age, his career peaked when he won the Gold Cup and beat Celtic in 2000. He perhaps lost his way after that and didn't seem to improve much. Good luck to him.

I kinda got the impression when Dundee went into Administration that they (Dundee FC) felt it was unnecessary and forced upon them by HMRC...in other words, they felt they had the debt under control. If that was the case then I wouldn't have expected to see so many of the smaller debts and it only serves as a sign that things were far more desperate than they made out. Granted, we don't know how old these debts are or how long they have been running....many could be 30 day credit agreements from suppliers, but if they are then it indicates that even with administration pending they were continuing to run up debt. Sorry, but I don't care who the administrator was or how well respected he might be, but if you are overseeing a business that is in administration then continuing to run it at a loss is not ensuring that creditors are going to get the best possible deal. What's more, I fail to see how running at a loss can be considered "ensuring viability". I think you are partially correct about how others might have reacted if you had "taken your punishment". The victim mentality that has emanated from Dens Park since day one has done the club few favours. For me, what's done most harm is that more could/should have been done by Dundee FC to ensure creditors were better treated. Doesn't matter how many players you cut from the squad or how you skirted the transfer embargo to bring in trialists...the fact is their was room for further cuts, and cuts that would not only have brought the club into break even but might have actually seen it make a few quid....money that could have gone to the people who were due more than 6p in the pound. What's more, the footballers would have been guaranteed their money at some point under the league rules in regards to paying footballing debt. Instead, Dundee FC have effectively held these players and paid them from the pot that should have been earmarked for the creditors. They got into the mess they are in by putting performance on the park ahead of business performance, learned nothing, and continued to do the same whilst in administration....instead of paying what they couldn't afford to win the league, they have been paying what they couldn't afford to avoid relegation.....that's giving the 2 fingers to the 25 point deduction as far as I am concerned. We've had this discussion before, Dundee FC were signed up to the rules as a member of the SFL/SFA and made little or no moves to change the situation prior to going into administration so don't have much room for complaint when they are held to account by it. Now that it looks like you are coming out the other side, it will be interesting to see if you continue to fight for a change to the system. If I'm honest, it's probably the fact that there's few signs that lessons were learned the first time round, and even fewer are being learned/taken on board this time round. Performance on the pitch continues to be put ahead of all else and even throughout administration this has been to the cost of others. The fact that other clubs will have witnessed it all and seen Dundee FC come out the other side with barely a scratch does little to deter them from doing the same....in fact, being able to wipe out the vast majority of your debt whilst maintaining a competitive squad and overcoming a 25 point deficit could almost be seen as encouragement for others to continue taking the risks they do with the finances.

When you consider the situation that we faced yesterday I would have said that we di well to come away with a point - I felt that there were more longer term positives than negatives - and in an end to end match a draw was the fairest result. So we start the game with a new if not "makeshift" defence. Not actually shure if Tel had any other options than what he picked - two central defenders who have not played together, one who is short of match practice. I have never liked Proctor at rite back but he deserved a chance and he didnt take it. Thank Gawd that we had Duff to steady the ship and Ryan to save the day as ever. The loss of Hayes also put the game plan out of synch and we had to change our tactics accordingly. Cox and Duncan were strong enuff in midfield and will always be first pick when we have a wide option to play to and through. It was my first glimpse of Doran and he shure has potential but needs match time to progress and fit in to the system. Rooney and Foran together will reallly pay dividends. I thought that Foran played as well as I have seen him in ages - possibly released from the responsibility of shoring up the midfield and being overly defense minded. He has the "head", the positional sense and the movement to be the perfect foil fer Rooney as the third goal proved. I would take Dargo back in a mo and he carved us open a few times in a St Midden 10-15 first half dominance which may have been as much about us sitting back on the lead. I was surprised that Hogg and Innes did not dominate in the air and we always looked susceptible to set plays - plus Innes lost his marker on several occasions. ESSON Mr reliable as ever - and am I being cruel - but was he found wanting a little during that fisrt half Midden dominance - I kept on waiting for him to sort out the defence and give them laldy but he didnt and I was equally surprised that he stayed on his line so much. But what a reaction save at the end. DUFF Another reliable who at times appeared to be the main man marshalling the defence. Plays the easy ball every time. HOGG Thought that he looked the better of the other three by a long way. INNES Lack of playing time showed and he looked lost at times. PROCTOR Strange choice at left back - given his chance and didnt take it. DORAN Like my first look - very Hayesesque but appears to be more of a tracker backer - also looks as he can pass/cross with either foot. COX / DUNCAN Solid enuff but I would have scored Cox just in front of Russeldhino HAYES Not around long enuff to make any difference. FORAN My MOM with his best all round performance in ages. ROONEY Certainly appeared to be helped by the new Foran and he shure is taking his chances again after a bare spell. As fer off the field I will hit another thread on that.

Supporters Club bus will leave from the Stadium as usual at 10am to go to the Hibs game. ?12 per person.

The guy had pretty limited ability. Where did you envisage him ending up?

He was a cracking player that always gave his all. Defensively he was the most solid left back we've ever had and if he'd been selected ahead of Zadi we would have never been relegated. All the best to him.