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Really irritates me when people try and imply that those who disagree with their view, or simply question the actions of the club they support are somehow less of a supporter than they are. (BTW I'm delighted Tokely is staying)

just an update ..... Fixtures will be supplied to clubs (and other license holders) at 8AM (UK time) tomorrow morning with a publishing embargo to 9AM. This (presumably) allows clubs to get the details typed into a story or fixture list page in time for the 9am deadline. Our fixture license - as an authorised 'fan' site - allows us to display only ICT fixtures not everyone else's in our fixture list. As 9AM UK time is 4AM Toronto time, I do not know when we will have them up on the site ... perhaps Don will have time to add them, I dont know. However, as with every year, I know the temptation for some will be to go to another site, copy them and then cut and paste these within the boards ..... PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS. Our license does not allow us to display them and we have no option but to delete posts that break our license terms. If you must be the first one to display a list .... please make it easy on us all and just post a link to a site like BBC or SKY or somewhere like that which will have permission to display fixtures of multiple clubs. Thank You in advance !

So...reading between the lines...he's not much of a plumber either then?

Hmmm....yet somehow he managed to just about save us from relegation when most would have given no hope upon his arrival, win promotion at the first time of asking and secure a 7th place finish in the SPL (narrowly missing out on top 6). I'm not going to argue with your rating of individual players, that's largely opinion and we won't all agree....however, some would have been signed with a view to being starting 11, some would have been seen as squad players and one or two were perhaps reluctant signings but needed due to circumstance. They may not all have been superstars, but they got the job done and that's what matters.

Agree! it would be a dull world if we all just followed the party line like sheep and didnt woice our opinions.

I think we could offer him a contract with ICT and Tulloch homes

This is where the manager comes in to his own. I would expect with those on 1 year deals that are showing promise, then we'd be talking to them sooner rather than later with a view to extending their stay. I would say, for the most part, players looking for new clubs/contracts would be more inclined to up their game. I also don't agree with the argument that Rooney somehow dipped in form towards the end of the season. It's the manager who's offering the shorter contracts, so I imagine he's ok with the challenge. Our own young players are all being offered 2 year contracts as far as I can see, so the 1 year thing doesn't really effect them. Sorry, but as much as I am a fan of ICT, I would expect any young player with ambition to be looking at ICT as nothing more than a stepping stone to bigger and better things, especially at the moment. Again, this is for the manager to "manage" and as he seems to be doing things his way...unlike in the past when there's always been a hint of interference from above...then you have to assume he's comfortable with it. Injuries etc can impact heavily on any team whether it's made up of long serving players or not, in fact we had a bit of that issue last season. What's more, it was the new/young guys who stepped into the breach and performed to ensure we didn't flounder and a couple of them performed so well they became mainstays in the matchday squad. It's not as if we are starting the season with a squad of 20+ strangers, nor are we likely to be doing so in the future. Our turnover of players will very likely increase and time will tell whether or not that's for the better or not. It feels like unfamiliar territory, but we've had closed seasons like this before where a number of new faces have come in. The difference this time is that it seems to be happening through choice instead of circumstance...and we have afar more experienced manager at the helm who is conducting proceedings. Some of the new players will move on to bigger and better things, some will need more development before moving on, some will find their level here and some won't make the grade. We seem to be cutting out the risk of being stuck with those that don't make the grade whilst remaining attractive to players with potential looking for a step up who don't want to be tied in anywhere. What we lose with 1 year deals is the chance to cash in on those who move on and up, but football is hardly a sellers market these days and big pay days for young players are few and far between so you have to manage the risk v reward. We seem to be betting on our own young guys in that regard (which makes sense as those are the players we know best) and giving them the 2 year deals, and that's a good thing. One dud on the books for a year longer than we want them there could easily wipe out any fee we might get for selling on one other player and given the ratio of players released to players sold and the fees being commanded just now, then those are not good odds. I'd love for us to be giving players 2 or 3 year deals, but right now, I don't think we can afford to do that and Butcher looks to be thinking outside the normal parameters expected from ICT to overcome that. It could be argued that he's simply being more realistic by not chasing the elusive "big sale" that this club has been chasing for 17 years without success.

Wouldn't have said Kerr was a rubbish signing (awaiting a slagging for that.) Thought he did ok when he came in, but he was no better than Russell say. Stratford and Eagle came with the status of being a 1st Division club and they were rubbish. No manager is going to have an immaculate record of signing players. Ferguson signed Veron, Mourinho signed Kezman, Souness signed Boumsong. There is always going to be duds signed at some point. Thats the way football is. Butcher knows what he's doing.

Nah, I think that's a bit of an apples and oranges scenario. Barrowman was given a longish contract and was totally unproven at SPL level. Players like Gillet, Tokely and the gang have proven themselves to be good SPL players and should thus warrant a longer deal.

Ticket bought, normal seat ;-( those that complain its to much.... simple...... don't buy one....

He's from Aberdeen and only ever played with Dundee United and the Dons so can't see much connection with Fife. I suspect it's purely the length of the deal (although I've no inside info). So far, he's spent his whole career at established SPL sides, so must think a better contract is out there. He's not the youngest of players, so might think he needs to maximise his earnings at the peak of his career. Getting near to deal-or-no-deal now.

I don't think Butchers record for signing players is as good as people make out. I had a wee look at the list of his signings and there are a few flops, most of the signings are very average with a couple gems thrown in. Richie Foran - Excellent signing Johnny Hayes - Excellent signing Kenny Gillet - Injured for most of the season but looks very impressive. Lee Cox - Good solid signing Jonny Tuffey - Excellent backup keeper to have The rest of the players he signed are either shockingly bad or fairly average and could have been replaced by any player really. Chris Hogg - Looked good but was only here for 6 months, i'd liked to have seen him for longer. Dani Sanchez - Average player that didn't even set the first division alight Stuart Golabek - Good first division player for 1 season. Stuart Duff - Average player who will always be seen as a rotational player, top 6 player? i don't think so. Eric Odhiambo - Average signing who helped with rotations. Chris Innes - We really didn't need him Brian Kerr - Rubbish Robert Eagle - Rubbish Daniel Stratford - Rubbish Nauris Bulvitis - Rubbish Gil Blumstein - Rubbish Max Johnson - Didn't even get a chance Then theres the loanings of: Alex Macdonald - We didn't need him Kevin McCann - Far too injury prone and again didn't convince myself he could hold down a regular spot. Aaron Doran - I liked him and would have loved to have seen him for longer. Out of all of those players i'd only ever be screaming to hold onto Foran and Hayes. I rate Cox but i've still always thought Duncan was better. Butcher has signed 7 defenders and apart from Gillet possibly i would say Grant Munro was better than them all and yet he gets punted. Strangely enough i would say our best two players last season were Ryan Esson and Adam Rooney, both Craig Brewsters signings. Terry Butcher has seemed to work well with what he has got but with more players leaving he is making this team his own and i don't think his signing ratio for talented youth players is that excellent. I really hope to be proved wrong this season though and can't wait for the first game against Clach.

You also seemed to have missed out on another aspect of his job and that is developing and having belief in local young tallent, our only home grown tallent has been Murno since the merger and already we have Shinnie, Ross and Sutherland I cant fault the youth set up as they have done a tremdous job bringing on the youngsters but its still the manager who picks the team.

Eagle and Stratford may have came with the status of being a 1st Division club but so did Hayes and Cox and they are comfortably competing in the SPL. All i'm saying is his record for signing top 6 players isn't the best. Out of around 20 signings Hayes and Foran are the only ones that stand out for being gems. He's letting players go that are already established at SPL level to bring in players that may play like Stratford, Bulvitis, Sanchez, Odhiambo, Eagle and more importantly Blumstein who was signed to do a job in the SPL and yet failed to deliver big time. I do hope that he does manage to bring in some quality players but to bring in as many as he needs to is certainly going to be hard and i can easily see a few more flops being signed this summer, Tansey and Tade might even be them!

Eagle and Stratford may have came with the status of being a 1st Division club but so did Hayes and Cox and they are comfortably competing in the SPL. All i'm saying is his record for signing top 6 players isn't the best. Out of around 20 signings Hayes and Foran are the only ones that stand out for being gems. He's letting players go that are already established at SPL level to bring in players that may play like Stratford, Bulvitis, Sanchez, Odhiambo, Eagle and more importantly Blumstein who was signed to do a job in the SPL and yet failed to deliver big time. I do hope that he does manage to bring in some quality players but to bring in as many as he needs to is certainly going to be hard and i can easily see a few more flops being signed this summer, Tansey and Tade might even be them! Agreed with what your saying about Hayes and Cox but they were an unkown quantity as well when they came in. Your right some have been a complete waste of time with Blumenshtein being the best example. But i will reserve judgement for the new lads this season for when we are a few games in.

Is gil on the Israeli team yet?

Due to the content of some of the offerings on here, I went to the Rumour Mill to check out the content of the Rossco thread thereon and HEY!! Maybe IHE could arrange to get Happy Pills to some of the 'fans' as it would appear that we have a lot of 'trouble at mill'! The source for all statements is probably as well founded as their Rossco offerings... their belief in our leader is so weak poor Terry is tried, found guilty and sentenced AND HE HAS NOT EVEN ISSUED ANY DETAILS OF HIS TARGETS YET!! To again quote Mr IHE ... Muppets!

Let's hope so he's p**h