Caley Stan

2001/2 St. Mirren 8th 45 points 2002/3 St Johnst. 3rd 67 points 2003/4 N/A 2004/5 Partick 9th 39 points - relegated :014: 2005/6 Dundee 7th 43 points 2006/7 Livingston 6th 45 points 2007/8 Dunfermline 5th 51 points 2008/9 N/A So, of the 6 teams that have been relegated in this period, 5 have finshed in 5th place or below and none have been involved in challenging for the title.

Great work, Locutus.

Rooney's in the middle of a three-year deal so if anyone wants him they'll have to pay. It would great to see Hayes and Cox offered new deals. In response to the OP, i don't think it would be wise to add any more young players to the first team when we're already blooding the players Alex has listed above. I'm not fussed if they're from our youth system or not, as long as we are showing signs of building a team for the future. Unfortunatley, the prevalence of short-term deals suggests we aren't.

Bob feckin Harris. Yet another IHE prophesy comes true.......

Before it was pointed out to him that you don't need to pass through Leith to get to anywhere apart form Leith. I'm enjoying Des McKeown. He paints a good picture of the game.

Partick v Dundee draw @ 3.40

Both of those groups are easier than England's. There is every chance they could finish 2nd before going out to Germany on penalties in Round 2.

Saturday's game

I agree with that prediction completely. I'll also predict that we will finish at the back of that group in 4th.

Albion Rovers for the same reason. Cowdenbeath would be laugh though as would any non-league team, particularly Wick which would require a serious carry-out for the train.

...............and so the SatNav trials begin. I might come if you don't take the feckin SatNav. :P

Not much to add to what's already been said. It was an average performance but i think we still deserved a point. If there was a difference between the teams then it was that they defended better. The spell after half-time finished us again and i think this was a reaction to what happened last week. Our offensive 4-2-3-1 quickly looked like defensive 4-4-1-1 with Rooney hopelessy isolated from the midfield. We rallied and had loads of set piece opportunities but wasted them. Our only clear cut chance came when Foran got to the bye line and cut back for Cox - the Partick defender did really well to get there first and knock the ball over the bar. Disappointing result which underlines just how difficult this league is.

It's a bit sad that one of these threads appears every time we lose a game and it says more about the nature of some sections of our support than it does about Terry Butcher. I agree with some of the points that have been made about TB's lack of tactical nous. This has been costly in the last two games as teams have sussed our weaknesses out in the first half and exploited them shortly after half-time. I'm sure Butcher realises this as well. But i don't agree with calls for his head. He has presided over the club's biggest turnover in playing staff in over a decade and has had to deal with a relegation which was largely not of his making. The new team has shown signs of promise. People were saying at half-time in Perth that they'd never seen us play so well. Amongst some of the poor signings he made in the summer, he's uncovered a couple of gems in Hayes and Sanchez, and persuaded Richie Foran to stay. It's worth remembering that going into the Cup final, we had won 4 games in 5 and scored a barrowload of goals against the wee teams. I think he's building a team, and if he's given a good crack at it i believe that the team can find the consistency needed to mount a challenge for promotion. By a good crack i don't mean 'til the end of the season, i mean the 2 or 3 years that will be needed to finish what he's started.

:(

I think Northern Jaggie's idea is more likely to improve the atmosphere than any attempt to move singers into another part of the ground. Traditionally, noisy football supporters sit behind the goals and their team shoots towards them in the second half. Section G grew quite naturally as a result of this tradition and i don't think it should be messed with. The priority should be making it easier for those who wish to join them in creating an atmosphere.

Our home attendances in the Challenge Cup certainly suggest that the latter may be a factor, but did we take many more to our two previous finals? The glory hunters theory is more difficult to quantify, especially as we might not be taking part in any "major games" in the near future. It would be very intersting to see how many people would turn out for a big Scottish Cup tie - home or away.

Negative and boring got us a 1-0 win over Greece at Hampden when McCoist came of the bench late and glanced in a header. We went on to qualify for Euro '96 as a result. You should remember - you were standing next to me! Oh how i would love to see negative and boring 1-0 wins that take us to major tournaments again.

I think we should move Rosscoe into centre and give Stratford a chance at right-back with Bulvitis dropping out.

He hooked Sanchez for Cox after 57 minutes. The midfield weren't getting on the ball at all at the time and a change needed to be made. It was a really tough decision because all of the attacking players had played so well in the first half. As it turned out, Cox didn't really make us much more solid. The problem was the poor distribution from the back and the lack of pace of the full-backs. I think Butcher's biggest mistake yesterday was not bringing on Imrie or Odhiambo earlier as Hayes faded badly after a great first half and Foran wasn't as effective either. I hope we also remember just how good we were in the first half. Surely Butcher deserves some credit for getting us playing like that.

Qos v Dunfermline Draw @ 3.50

Are from Grantown ??? Haven't you noticed his extra thumbs?

The muppets have gone too far this time. First Mike Smith, then Brewster, and now they go and bring in Pinochet. It's time for a revolution.

Robert Eagle appears to be latest victim of this phenomenon. Butcher said in the P&J today that McBain and Barrowman are "back in training". Were they injured?

That press conference is hilarious. I do agree with most of what Keane is saying, but his manner just shows him up as a complete headcase with a massive chip on his shoulder.

They have a large debt but they also get bigger crowds than anyone else in bottom 6 and i'd be very surprised if their budget was any smaller. I heard Chic Young saying recently that his money would be on Billy Stark. Craig Brown has aslo been touting him and pointing out how successful the system of promoting from within the SFA was in his own case and in the case of Andy Roxburgh. This must be the only point in Stark's favour - his club record is atrocious: Morton 1997-2000: Finished 5th and 6th. He was sacked after Morton were pumped 6-2 at Caley Park. St. Johnstone 2001-2004: Stark took over a couple of months into the season with St. Johnstone at the bottom of the SPL. The were relegated with 21 points (19 away from safety!) and Stark was sacked after consecutive 3rd place finishes in the First. Queens Park 2004-2008: 4th and 6th in the Third before promotion via the play-offs after a 3rd place finish. I think this record should be enough to discount Stark completely. He seems to be doing allright with the 21's so leave him there. The manager of Scotland must have a track record of success and Stark doesn't.