Alex MacLeod

I've got a point to make about that Alex. Independence may be about a single emotional issue for many people but there are many, many issues to be debated over the next year and a half. Economy Education Welfare Health Service Defence Transport Agriculture Fisheries European Union These are just a few and personally I think there are people who will completely ignore a generic Independence thread compared to a multitude of specific threads. Do we really want to stifle the debate before it starts? I do understand all that PMF. Keeping this whole site tidy is also important. I also apologise for my error that resulted in your ban from this thread and look forward to a lot of good debate over the next few months.

sorted it for ya!!

Now I'm even more confused. First off you spell my name wrong. Then you tell me not to join the police force. I didn't even know they gave jobs to pensioners. I dont need to listen to the song. I sang it many a time in school concerts but what it has to do with Tichy Blacks Back I'll never know.......unless he has the words tattoo'd there of course.

People......get over it. If you have never lashed out in anger at something, be it punching the air, banging your head against a wall, kicking a stone in the street, slamming a door or whatever, then you have the right to criticise. I think the majority will have done so at some point in their lives. To vandalise is to deliberately and knowingly cause damage. TB lashed out in anger and the perspex broke. Did he expect it to break. Did he deliberately cause the damage. I think not. He admited his mistake and took full blame for his actions. End Of.

A number of threads have been opened on the same subject. These have now all been merged together and the title changed. Opening new threads takes up more space on the server so please, if you've something to add that comes into the category of Scottish Independence, use this thread for all similar debate and comment.

The new Forth bridge is being funded totally from traditional means. (Public funds) As is the dualling of A9.

Ten years ago many would never have predicted that we could drill for oil and gas in deep water areas. Technology has advanced so much since then that drilling, and producing from, depths in excess of 3000 metres is common practice. The industry has also developed subsea technology and robotics so much that laying underwater production manifolds and other equipment is simple in those depths. Also being successfully developed is subsea production plant that could be operated from a shore based facility. The industry has also developed means of recovering more from existing oil fields. Back in the days when the first fields were discovered in the North Sea experts were predicting recoverable reserves at around 20% of actual reserves. These figures are now around 60 to 70% recoverable hence the reason many thirty year old platforms are being refurbished to last another twenty or thirty years. Now back to the 'new boom'............the Atlantic shelf has vast quantities of untapped reserves and all the new technology mentioned above is going to allow production from those deep water area's. Oil will be produced from Scottish waters for many, many years to come hence the reason the 'NO' campaigners are trying to make the facts out to be lies.

So many people get tied up in the assumption that the SNP would be the presiding party if/when independence happens. Assuming that the country votes yes then the first thing that would need to happen is a Scottish election to determine who leads the new state. I like how you bring up council tax freeze as a bad thing Charles. You forget to mention that when councils had free reign to charge what they wanted they spent millions on trash and official jollies around the world. Now I cant speak for anywhere else but in Perth I've seen a vast improvement in the local services being provided since the freeze. We still have recreational facilities for all ages. We have theatres. We have parks and gardens that are maintained to very high standards. All this is being done by thoughtfully using the monies available and not squandering as happened in the past. I wonder if thats because our council is run by a SNP/Lib Dem coalition So what is it thats not being provided for you and Inverness Charles? Better roads maybe........wait a minute!! Was it not Westminster that took control of the roads away from councils and handed it over to the private sector. Better schools? Was it not Westminster (Thatcher) who brought about the PPI system for building new schools that we now have to pay for into perpetuity?

Dunfermline is not in the same situation as Rangers was. Yes they owe the taxman but I think someone will come along and pay that bill. The rest of their debt, as CaleyD says, is loans given by people close to the club. What the club really needs to survive is for Yorkston to cut his losses and hand over control to the Lieshman syndicate or a buyer willing to take on the debt. If that doesnt happen then I believe they will die. Someone may start a new club in Dunfermline but it wont start as a Scottish league club. It wont be a newco. Instead I feel that if those owed monies decide to pursue their claim the grounds will be sold off. Probably to put a few new houses there. Personally I think it would be very sad if Dunfermline FC disappears.

As an aside from all the embassy debate......is there a need for representation in so many of the countries around the world where we also have reciprocating agreements. After all, if every one of the countries listed in the above link had a little bit of themselves in UK there wouldnt be any room for our citizens to build homes. Christ we have ten different establishments in Finland, a member state of the EEC. Is it really necessary to shell out the extortionate salaries for all those diplomatic types and their hangers-on?

Terry already tld us in his interview after the game that he expects to foot the bill. As for the cost I'd suggest its quite cheap.

I must read the wrong papers. I have seen no evidence to say anything is crumbling. All I've seen so far is one group arguing a point and another counter-arguing it. Neither of those groups are able to put hard facts on the table though. Back to your football analogy. Mr Austria and Mr Switzerland tried out a league system that failed for them but Mr Scotland has taken their reasoning on board, and is going to try the same anyway, believing that knowing the reasons for previous failure can promote success. So to sum up.........we dont know if any other country has failed in its ambitions to become a free state but if they have then what was their reason for failure and can that reason be rectified in a way as to promote success?

DD, if my mental arithmetic is correct it is impossible for us to finish ninth at the split. For that to happen we need to be overtaken by five teams below us and each of those teams must take points of each other at some stage.

My interpretation of what Kingsmill asked is "are there any, of the many, countries out there who have been granted, or won, independance in recent times wanting to revert to what they previously had"? Its a simple question with a simple yes no answer but, like a politician, Charles avoids the answer by waffling a load of bull.

Sorry Laurence but, considering there are no posters on this site who go by the name of Sonny Boy, I fail to see the purpose of your post.

The government was no more in charge than you or I. That mix of Lords, Clergy and Knights that made up the 'government' were all put in place by the monarch that some of their countrymen found the need to invite over from Holland. But the country was happy to court the services of a Dutch occupying force for fifty odd years before Culloden.

Were you at the Dundee game?

Laurence, I think PMF was being a little pedantic. As for your other points.....you have the right to read all you can on the subject of independance and to corulate your viewpoints on how you decypher the information.....and I admire that but dont invent what is not there. Dont invent what has not been said. The so called 'Royal Mail' is in effect a private business that will continue to compete with other carriers to survive. That means it will need Scottish business as much as it does any other country's. Some of your other points are just drivel. I dont need green card insurance or medical cards to travel to Ireland so why would things change because I travel to England? Why is your passport going to change? Would you not be one of those who may be entitled to dual nationality so, when Scotland issues her own passports, you can have two. As can all the Scots who qualify in England through residential status.

I know who it'll be as far as CTO is concerned.................the one who accumulates the most points in matchday polls.

Trying to analyse this closely. For us to go out of top six we need to be overtaken by three of the five teams below us. St J have two to play and would need two points from those games. Hibs need five points from nine. DU need six points from nine. Aberdeen and Killie both need seven from nine. Killie away to County and home to St Mirren and Dundee...........I can only see them get a max six points. Aberdeen away to Celtic home to Hearts and away to DU...........Realistically they may get four points. DU home to Dundee away to St J and home to Aberdeen...........For them to gain six needed they will have cancelled out either StJ or Aberdeen. Hibs away Motherwell home to Us and away Celtic.....................The most I see them getting there is two points St J have home to DU and away to us.......................................If they win both then they may overtake us but will have cancelled out DU's chances. Killie ruled out of top six. Aberdeen also ruled out. Hibs ruled out from overtaking us and may struggle to stay in top half. So, and I know miracles can happen, being realistic, and basing analyses on how those teams are faring at the moment, I cant see a permutation that will dislodge us from top six.

As I wrote in 'SAFE' thread Looking at the table as it stands right now the bottom three cannot make top six. Of the next three Dundee United possibly have the most realistic chance of making it. We have six points on Killie but they have a very difficult awayday to Dingwall so I dont envisage them being a threat. Aberdeen have an awayday to Celtic and DU and based on performances I dont see them getting more than a point from those fixtures. Our next three games are against County, Hibs and St Johnstone and that is where our destiny lies. It is in our own hands which position we are in at the split but it wont be bottom six.

Looking at the table as it stands right now the bottom three cannot make top six. Of the next three Dundee United possibly have the most realistic chance of making it. We have six points on Killie but they have a very difficult awayday to Dingwall so I dont envisage them being a threat. Aberdeen have an awayday to Celtic and DU and based on performances I dont see them getting more than a point from those fixtures. Our next three games are against County, Hibs and St Johnstone and that is where our destiny lies. It is in our own hands which position we are in at the split but it wont be bottom six.

Pittodrie's a different kettle of fish being as the ground is mostly sand. Tommy will know how to keep ours good.

This is the Republic squad as published on BBC site today. No CP listed there. Cant find any info anywhere on U-21 or U-19. Goalkeepers: Westwood (Sunderland), Forde (Millwall), Randolph (Motherwell) Defenders: O'Shea (Sunderland), St Ledger (Leicester), Clark (Aston Villa), Wilson (Stoke), Coleman (Everton), Kelly (Reading), O'Dea (Toronto), O'Brien (West Ham), McShane (Hull), Pearce (Reading), Ward (Wolves) Midfielders: Whelan (Stoke), McCarthy (Wigan), Green (Leeds), Hendrick (Derby), McGeady (Spartak Moscow), Pilkington (Norwich), McClean (Sunderland), Brady (Hull) Forwards: Keane (Los Angeles Galaxy), Long (West Brom), Doyle (Wolves), Sammon (Derby), Walters (Stoke), Cox (Nottingham Forest), Hoolahan (Norwich)

Is it really such a hard decision for players like McKay? I dont think there are many players who've come here that haven't found the area and the club to be a very enjoyable experience. The ones that dont want to stay are usually those who've been brought up on central belt football and who prefer the bright lights and ignorant beings of big city life to the relaxation and friendliness of the more rural setting.