http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32112666
 

So John Barnes is playing the race card. Apparently his revolutionary 4-2-2-2 formation, abysmal signings, losing the dressing room, and getting knocked out of the Scottish Cup by (then) lowly Inverness, aren't the reason his managerial career hit the buffers, it's institutional racism.

Do me a favour luv!

 

There was a documentary on ITV4 a few nights back about him, only saw the last 5 mins but thats what he spoke about and how clubs like Celtic never gave him a chance. It had some other of his contemparies backing him saying it was unfair and he was never given the same opportunities for success as other coaches especially at Celtic where he was a great fit - althought they all overlooked that King Kenny was there with him making an arse of it all.

 

While I dont disagree with some of his points that there is a disporportionaly low number of black or managers from other ethnic groups in not just England but European management, it doesnt hide the fact his record at clubs was awful and he was utter bobbins!!!!

He was a crap manager, his colour is and was irrelevant. 

 

Is there racism in football management and upper leadership of clubs? Of course there is, plenty of examples out there ... but it doesnt change the fact that Barnes was a terrible coach in his time at Celtic and it was his ability or lack thereof that got him his jotters.

 

 

Yet another JB led piece on this. While I still agree that proporionally black and minority managers are under represented - there is still no doubt that JB in particular was guff every chance he got (which was more than once or even twice)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31970841

He was a crap manager, his colour is and was irrelevant. 

 

Agreed absolutely but, in line with what I was saying in another thread about the New Religion which is Political Correctness, it's sometimes a bit difficult to say thngs like that without being issued with a Fatwah by the PC handwringers.

 

He was a crap manager, his colour is and was irrelevant. 

 

Agreed absolutely but, in line with what I was saying in another thread about the New Religion which is Political Correctness, it's sometimes a bit difficult to say thngs like that without being issued with a Fatwah by the PC handwringers.

 

Only half true, there is very little doubt that there is racism ingrained in football and that black managers and coaches, if they get a chance at all, don't tend to get a fair chance and that, like any other discrimination, is a disgrace.

 

What is equally true is that, although there is certainly discrimination against black managers, John Barnes was not a victim of it. He was given a chance with a huge club and the only thing he personally was a 'victim' off was his complete lack of talent as a coach, motivator, manager and tactician.

 

Just because Mr Barnes is wrongly playing the race card does not mean that there isn't racism at play and that every reasonable effort shouldn't be taken to eliminate it and level the playing field.

However one tries to make allowances, the fact remains he was a crap manager. End of!

 

 

He was a crap manager, his colour is and was irrelevant.

Agreed absolutely but, in line with what I was saying in another thread about the New Religion which is Political Correctness, it's sometimes a bit difficult to say thngs like that without being issued with a Fatwah by the PC handwringers.

 

Only half true, there is very little doubt that there is racism ingrained in football and that black managers and coaches, if they get a chance at all, don't tend to get a fair chance and that, like any other discrimination, is a disgrace.

 

What is equally true is that, although there is certainly discrimination against black managers, John Barnes was not a victim of it. He was given a chance with a huge club and the only thing he personally was a 'victim' off was his complete lack of talent as a coach, motivator, manager and tactician.

 

Just because Mr Barnes is wrongly playing the race card does not mean that there isn't racism at play and that every reasonable effort shouldn't be taken to eliminate it and level the playing field.

 

 

Totally agree with this ... not surprising as it is basically what I said in post #3. 

 

I abhor racism in all forms and 100% support all efforts to eradicate it from our society through education and also through calling it out for what it is when dealing with situations where it is so ingrained that is almost seems 'normal'. Football, and football management in particular, is one of those situations. I have no doubt JB has dealt with racism as a manager, he certainly did so as a player, but I equally abhor situations where it goes to the opposite extreme and the race card is played to cover up other faults or inadequacies. It devalues (or can devalue) the claims those who are legitimate victims of racism.  

 

Sometimes a person (regardless of colour/religion/gender/sexual orientation etc) doesnt get the job because there are better candidates or because they have no track record of success ... and when they failed before it was not because of those same factors, it was simply because they were no good. JB may not have had a fair crack at getting a football management job since Celtic, but we dont know what he has applied for or if he may be setting his sights too high? In some cases the lack of a job offer may be because of his skin tone - and that is offensive to any fair minded person - but the fact that he was in charge when one of the most memorable headlines in global football EVER was generated means he will always be tarnished by that result against then 'league minnows' ICT. Kenny Dalglish hasnt exactly been high profile in football since that day either albeit he did have a brief stint back at Liverpool !!!

 

If anyone wants to show racism is rife in football management and that black managers are not getting a chance then I would respectfully say that John Barnes is not the example to hold up ..... 

 

 

 

He was a crap manager, his colour is and was irrelevant.

Agreed absolutely but, in line with what I was saying in another thread about the New Religion which is Political Correctness, it's sometimes a bit difficult to say thngs like that without being issued with a Fatwah by the PC handwringers.

 

Only half true, there is very little doubt that there is racism ingrained in football and that black managers and coaches, if they get a chance at all, don't tend to get a fair chance and that, like any other discrimination, is a disgrace.

 

What is equally true is that, although there is certainly discrimination against black managers, John Barnes was not a victim of it. He was given a chance with a huge club and the only thing he personally was a 'victim' off was his complete lack of talent as a coach, motivator, manager and tactician.

 

Just because Mr Barnes is wrongly playing the race card does not mean that there isn't racism at play and that every reasonable effort shouldn't be taken to eliminate it and level the playing field.

 

 

Totally agree with this ... not surprising as it is basically what I said in post #3. 

 

I abhor racism in all forms and 100% support all efforts to eradicate it from our society through education and also through calling it out for what it is when dealing with situations where it is so ingrained that is almost seems 'normal'. Football, and football management in particular, is one of those situations. I have no doubt JB has dealt with racism as a manager, he certainly did so as a player, but I equally abhor situations where it goes to the opposite extreme and the race card is played to cover up other faults or inadequacies. It devalues (or can devalue) the claims those who are legitimate victims of racism.  

 

Sometimes a person (regardless of colour/religion/gender/sexual orientation etc) doesnt get the job because there are better candidates or because they have no track record of success ... and when they failed before it was not because of those same factors, it was simply because they were no good. JB may not have had a fair crack at getting a football management job since Celtic, but we dont know what he has applied for or if he may be setting his sights too high? In some cases the lack of a job offer may be because of his skin tone - and that is offensive to any fair minded person - but the fact that he was in charge when one of the most memorable headlines in global football EVER was generated means he will always be tarnished by that result against then 'league minnows' ICT. Kenny Dalglish hasnt exactly been high profile in football since that day either albeit he did have a brief stint back at Liverpool !!!

 

If anyone wants to show racism is rife in football management and that black managers are not getting a chance then I would respectfully say that John Barnes is not the example to hold up ..... 

 

Yes I noticed that CB had very selectively quoted your post citing only the limited part that suited his agenda....

Some peeple can actually judge managers by their performance and not their skin colour. Barnes was an inconsistent but potentially pleasing and skillful player. He has become a proven and capable "activist" and role model in relation to racism BUT he was never going to succeed as a manager as many, many whiter dudes ever would either. Controversial but he may have got the job becos of his skin colour in the first instance.

It is very easy to claim racism as a reason for some situations but before commenting further I'd like those making the claims to tell me how many BME candidates are there who choose to do coaching badges and or are coaches in UK. Perhaps they just dont choose that as a career path after playing. Indeed what proportion of the UK BME population actually choose to play the game. I think more of the Indian/Pakistani/Chinese background citizens. Considering they make up by far the biggest ethnic group in UK there are very few who come into professional football. Indeed how many UK born players in the professional game are there? There are very many BME's playing but many are imported from europe or the former colonies of Britian, France, Spain and Portugal and most of them usually end up going back home when their playing days are over.

I read an article somewhere a while back that there are 3.4% of coaches/managers in UK from BME groups yet 25% of players come from same group. The article failed to say how many of the 25% were temporary residents. Even looking at Scotland where the BME group makes up for around 2% of population how many are there in professional game here? And of the ones who are how many want to go into coaching?

I believe there probably is racism in the game that puts people of from even wanting to get into coaching thus stopping them from even applying for badges. I do, however, think the relevant associations could and should be doing a hell of a lot more to encourage those with the ability to progress. I also believe that the best candidate should get the job offer regardless of colour, creed or sex. It is also pleasing to know that I support a club that follow those values.