Huisdean

Alex Don't think the tax case has been decided yet one way or another so not sure if we can yet say, they have broken the law of the land yet. The practice of minimising how much tax you pay is not illegal but certainly to me immoral and if HMRC succeed in their case against rangers, there are a lot of clubs in England who will be very worried indeed. I think we need to wait and see what the fallout is before we all rush to make decisions on what, for many, is a very emotive issue. My own view is that if rangers become a newco, then they should be relegated to the third division regardless of what the finacial fall out is as this then gives the SPL a huge chance to chance the face of Scottish football. While that may take a few years and will cause finacial hardship for some clubs, in the long run, it must improve the situation. I, for one, will still be in my usual seat next season supporting my team.

What surprised me last night was the lack of fight from Dunfermline. Only for very very brief spells was there any urgency from them and, had I been a Dunfermline fan, would have been very disappointed at this. As for us, the game sort of summed up our season, crying out for an out and out striker anmd had we scored one goal, which I thought we merited, i think we would have gone on to win comfortably. Hopefully the team can give us a big performance against Hibs now that the pressure is off but,as everyone knows, changes needed for next season. While everyone is aware that changes to personnel are required, I also think it eqaully important that we develop a system of play that all the players understand and know their roles. To me, that has been one of our biggest problems this seas, not having a system that everyone seither understands or seems comfortable with.

for what it's worth, this was always a "nothing" story ceased on by some posters to try and make it a "big story". Yes, Butcher could, and probably should, have mentioned in the match programme but hardly a cause for some of the nonsense spouted. As Alex Macleod has stated, with such a poor attendance, more focus should have gone on that but to me, the attendance just highlights what what a poor level of support we have, both from the local population and by some posters on here who profess to be supporters.

Definately worth a punt as presumably he is not on huge wages. Always going to be a difficult season stepping up from the SFL, and he does seem to be running out of steam a bit at this point in the season butnext season will be critical for him to show whether or not he can make the step up.

Don't think there is an option in the poll for me to vote. I would continue to support and watch ICT no matter what but feel that if any club, be it Rangers or whoever, if they go into liquidation should be demoted from the league and have to start again as a newco. Looks like it ain't going to happen though.

I think your 100% correct IHE. TB has been good for the club in several ways especially in raising the profile of ICT and being an effective media performer. I also think he deserves another season but he has to learn from his mistakes and try to see "the bigger picture". The idea of another coach, with a strong personality needed I think, may well be the solution with MM moving on. IHE for coach anyone!!

As someone has already said, for 64 minutes, we were so much better than Wednesday and waited for us to kick on after the penalty (stonewall by the way) but then the defence just blew up and we lost a game we should have won comfortably. Haven't heard the post match interview from TB and while it may be true defensive mistakes cost us the game, had we taken our chances up front, that wouldn't be an issue. We need to defend from the front, something we seem incapable of doing. Substitutes today were baffling. It was obvious Tade was either not fully fit or so lacking confidence that he should have been replaced so much sooner. As for the last two subs coming on in injury time, what was that about. This game could so easily have been won as could Wednesdays and that is the most annoying/frustrating thing. Finally if some fans appear to be saying they would rather not renew their season tickets but go to watch County instead, then to me they ain't fans.

Yes that's exactly why people are staying away. Nothing to do with paying top dollar to watch absolute pish on the field at all, is it? Could you please point out where I turned his performance into a negative. I'm pretty certain that I praised his performance. But let's not let little things like facts get in the way of a good ol' witch hunt for folk who disagree with you eh? May I suggest you stop trying so hard to be a smart arse? You obviously crave attention constantly... Or have you grown up now? *actual facepalm* You think negative people lack perspective yet in the very next sentence you say you didn't think we deserved to lose? Are you unstable? Injuries is a massive cop out of an excuse used by happy clappers. Isn't the point of having a squad rather than just a team so that the club can cope with injuries? Did we not have a transfer window in January to further alleviate any injury problems? You can use the injury excuse all you like but it's just not washing with this fan. Glad to hear you're so confident of beating County. I have actually taken the time to go and see them this season (in the away end with the Falkirk fans, naturally) and I actually know what I'm talking about when I say they'll see us as 12 easy points next season. Happy clapper, negative or realistic? Well from where I'm sitting, it's you who doesn't fully understand the meaning of "realistic" and you're definitely looking like a happy clapper to me. But by all means continue to drum up support from your fellow happy clappers. There's plenty to choose from on here. Having just watched the highlights for the first time, I am of the opinion that the St Johnstone penalty was very very soft and if that was given, then the foul on Tansey equally merited a penalty. Had we scored first, as we should have, then I don't think we would have lost and still don't think we deserved to lose that match. Did St johnstone play us off the park and create chance after chance, no they didn't and we had enough chances to win the game. With regard to injiries, we did try and get some players in the transfer window, not too successfully from the looks of it but quite simply, there was not the money to get replacements as good as the ones we lost. Unless you are blind, then it is obvious how injuries have affected the teams position and performance as we simply cannot afford to lose the number of players we have this season. Finally one for all the long ball theorists, look at the highlights and watch the first chance that Tade missed, good football, pleyed on the deck, but totally ignored by many on here. Yes there is not enough of that type of football played but FFs we are not Barcelona. As, I think Davie said, lets get behind the team on Sunday instead of constant knocking of the team. (closest thing to a happy clapper I can find!)

So predictable some posts on this forum. The posters who are usually negative are and the postive ones remain positive. The good think about some of the positive posters is that they can put things into perspective while some of the negative posters are,well just negative. The game sure wasn't pretty on Wednesday but, for those who were there, did we deserve to lose, I don't think so. We did create more chances than St. Johnstone although they played the better football but with little end product until late in the game when we were chasing a point. There are many reasons why we are in the position we are this season and injuries has to be a major cause. It is no surprise that defensively we have started to improve with a semi settled back 4 but now the problems have switched to upfront. We have arguably lost our 3 most creative players in Hayes/Shinnie and Doran. name me a team in our position who would not struggle without these players. The ones who have replaced them are just not as creative or even out and out/good strikers. I do like mackay I have to say and if we could pair him with someone, I think it could become a good partnership. Anyhow, we now can hardly score in games despite creating chances and that can be said for large parts of the season. TB has a bit of power now if some of the players want to stay as thay have to produce in the reamining games, if they don't then they have to go as simple as that. As for one poster saying County would look at us as being 12 easy points next season, or something like that, give me a break. They don't know what players they will have next season and are unproven at SPL so nobody knows how they will fair (and by the way, haven't they been getting stick recently for their stlye of play?) so am I a happy clapper or a being negative. In truth neither, just being realistic which some posters on this site don't know the meaning of that word.

Smee - I have not missed a home game and can honestly say what you posted is nonsense. While not the whole story, the injuries and constant cahnging of personnel in the team has definately had an impact and it has been the biggest impact on the season. However, the next biggest impact has to be the questionable tactics and personnel that Terry/Mo sometimes use!

Not disagreeing with you totally in respect of "the we''ll be fine attitude", but taking into account goal difference, Dunfermline have to win 5 out of their 8 games to go above us while we tale no points from any of these games. I don't think Dunfermline are capable of this but the best way to make sure is get another couple of wins under our belt and then i think we will be safe. Time for the fans to get behind the team and come out in force perhaps or should that be another topic?.

Johndo is a nice guy but yon IHE is a pompous shitt stirring ersehole and proof that Olanzapine can be ineffective in the treatment of multiple personality disorder. At the risk of psychobabble repetition I really look forward to the day that Terry actually admits to being part of the problem - at any level. Touche IHE!.

Aye, vert clever and adds a lot to the debate or do I detect some other agenda!.

I really really wonder what some posters expect from ICT. We should have won yesterday, no doubt about that, and missed cahnces almost came back to haunt us. Bit wait a mniute, look at the chances we created, a lot through actually playing football, but that is totally ignored by some unrealistic expectations from some supporters. The team are low on confidence at the moment and that is very obvious but they gave their all for the cause. There is the bones of a good team in there and if TB does develop that next season, then he will have served his time here and it will be up to someone else to try and take us forward. I do agree with a lot of what IHE said but not the way he said it. The weakest part of our game just now is our tactics which need to be sorted out. Now that we are almost safe, we should be looking to get these sorted for next season but Johndo, keep the psycho babble out of this, it serves no purpose other than it makes you look a pompous ****hole which I know you are not. At least you care for the club when I am beginning to doubt that others do.

Don't think it is frowned upon, at least not by me, to have a negative or different viewpoint on this forum. The problem is that so many posters hold deeply entrenched views and cannot see the other side of the argument. That isn't good for debate. As for County abd Drerek Adams, they got lucky to get to the final and were well beaten in the final. Winning the first division and then competing in the SPL are two different things. County also have a lot of staff outr of contract at the end of the season and it still remains to be seen whether the players that have/stay can play at SPL level. Comparisons with County at this stage are meaningless.

Any you seriously felt a need to post this.......yawn

I think there is a healthy level of opinion from all sides on this site with some people prepared to defend/explain their positions. That has to be good but some posters, on both sides of this particular debate, just don't want to see each others point of view. I do also think some posters need a shot of realism on ICT's place in Scottish football, we will probably never win the title, but we should always aspire to do so, we should always try to play attractive football but sometimes that does not win you games. A few posters have indiacted that they would rather see attractive football even if it meant we dropped down a division, I cannot undertsand that point of view at all. In theory you raise the standard of play by playing better teams. I fully accept that everything in the garden is not rosy at the moment and to me, the club does seem to be lacking a bit of direction from the board but these are difficult times in Scottish Football just now.

A lot of good posts on this and a lot of negative, and frankly predictable posts on this subject. On the assumption that we all want the club to grow and improve, although I am not so sure, all the posters actually want this, what good at the moment would replacing the management team at this time do. The constant changing of managers does no club any good and as someone pointed out, not only would we have to pay off the current management team, but then pay the new manager to get his own staff in which we simply cannot afford. Sure the management team have made mistakes in both signings and tactics, and worryingly for me at the moment, cannot seem to get the tactics sorted, butlet's be realistic about our financial situation and are we really any worse that the teams immediately around about us, Hibs, St. Mirren, Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, I don't think so. This may be seen by some who then class me as a "happy clapper" but I would rather be classed as one of those than be one of the depressed negative posters who preach doom and gloom on here season after season.

Invisible Man??

proc up against mackay-steven. he would have to watch the video of "that" trick he performed against sjohnstone. seen it a hundred times and still dont know what he did. we could all chip in and buy proctor 50 match tickets. he would need tham all to get back into tannadice Why single out Proctor for that, would any of our other defenders do any better/worse than Proctor if up gainst that. Another example of knocking a player for no good reason which is prevalent on this site. No issues with making comments on Proctor after the game if he has a bad game but come on, before it.

Totally agree Caley D. Consistency of selection and playing staff served us well over the years but was always going to change at some point and the nature of player contracts means it's a whole new ball game now. Buthcher was fortunately/unfortunately the manager who had to carry out the surgery required on the team and, while not totally successful, there are reasons behind this. Where the management team do let themselves down, as alluded to by IHE earlier is their tactics. These are bewildering at times and they have to learn quickly on this as it is this that is costing us points in some games, not always the players on the park. Finally to all thes eposters who have said we have been playing as poorly as we have ever have, I disagree. When we have had our best team on the aprk, some of the football, although not always the results has been good if not better than last season. The problem has been continuity of selection and the injury to Andrew Shinnie. If the correct signings can be made for next season, we have a good base to build on (ever the optimist but i suppose that is what being a fan is all about)

Seems strange you would repost it then, so totally totally irrelevant that you felt the need to make us all read it again? Sometimes I read these forums and shake my head in disbelief at the bullying culture amongst some members. If someone, such as Dougal, puts forth their views in contradiction to a certain group of posters then the knives are drawn and the attack is on, like a shoal of hungry piranha. If Dougal is a troll then he will be loving you lot, if he is a normal poster with some out there views then a lot of you need to take a good look at yourselves. TBH, pressed wrong buttons when writing post but seriously what has Butcher and McCoist shaking habds etc got to do with the game yesterday. Everyone, including Dougal and myself are entitled to their opinion and if I need to cooment on a post, I will do so. If anyone wants to comment on my postings, feel free as i won't get upset about it.

Were some people actually watching the game yesterday and Proctor's performance. He steadied the defence in the 2nd half and didn't do a lot wrong. For right back it is either him or Piermyer, rest of the defence as it was yesterday. Tudor Jones has to play, Ross to drop out as too lightweight for thisd type of game and someone up front to play with Mackay who actually knows how to play as a striker, Foran or Wannell?.

Dougal, totally totally irrelevant post, adds nothing to the debate and is just ........ words just fail me. Utter pish would be the words to sum up that performance today I don't recall seeing a poorer defensive performance ever from an ICT back four Possibly the worst ever Orc team to set foot in TCS and to be played off the park like the way we did was a total embarrassment Can't believe no one has mentioned this but did anyone at the game or watching it on Sky see the sickening scenes I saw as our management team waited for McCoist/Durrant/McDowell and co emerge from the tunnel before the game? A simple hand shake should have been sufficient but what we got was basically a cringeworthy hugfest which I found quite insulting to the ICT fans who had the misfortune to witness it Rangers were fragile today and all this pandering niceties should have happened within the stand if they even had to happen at all and not in full view of the paying punter The fact that Tokely never made it off the bench certainly backs up this alleged rift anyone got more info?

As usual some over the top reactions after todays game> Sure we didn't play well and too many players had a bad day. Rangers won this game without over exerting themselves and down to our poor defending. However many of those slagging off Meekings have been saying that he has been good on other games and let's not forget he is only 19 and still learning.Again, I am getting a bit fed up with many posters continually slagging off team and performances but oblivious to the fact that we have rarely been able to field the same team two weeks running due to injuries. You will only get consistent performances when you can get a consistent team playing week in week out. Having said that, the substitutions today, apart from Proctor, who played well when he came on, were baffling. I am getting less impressed by Gnapka, who is to attacking what Djebi Zadi was to defending. We needed someone to play alongside Mackay but Gnapka isn't the one. Tudor Jones, if fully fit should have been on sooner as well. All in all, a bad day at the office but some of the postings on here really mae me question if some posters actaully want to be supporters of ICT or simply want to look for the latest excuse to slag off the management and team.