DoofersDad

This seems to have turned into a passion v discipline debate to some extent. But the point is that at this level we should expect both. I don't think anybody here has a problem with meaty tackles and nobody is accusing OTJ of being in any way a dirty player, but players do need to know that when they commit themselves to that kind of challenge they are going to win the ball. Perhaps when players are bearing down on goal there may be justification for taking a risk - but not on the half way line under the ref's nose! OTJ was very late for the tackle and would have been better pulling out and keeping on running to help cover the developing attack. We can analyse these tackles in slo mo till we are blue in the face and still we disagree whether any particular tackle should be red or yellow. The referee has to make an instant decision and that decision will be influenced by the aspect of chance of just where in the stride the tackler makes contact with the player with the ball. The fact is that going for this type of tackle is a risk and there are factors which are not in the control of the palyer making the tackle. Players need to make judgements of when to go for the tackles and when to redirect their passion and energies in responding to the situation in another way. I am just a bit worried that in responding to the need for passion some of our players are forgetting the need for judgement as well.

Sounds like a great idea. I'd love to go along and watch but I'm not free that weekend. Let's hope it catches the public imagination. Obviously it will be a fantastic day for those playing but I am sure it will be a lot of fun to watch and could raise a decent amount of cash.

Thanks for posting this. Likewise, I had never seen it - and what a good goal it is too! One of our best players ever IMHO and one who never really got the recognition he deserved.

It's not so much that Terry's food is bad, it's just that if you want it you have to scrape it off the changing room walls first.

Yes it does. It's just that you don't understand the explanation! You don't "deserve" a penalty just because awarding a penalty is the correct decision. Doran should have been awarded a penalty but he did not deserve one. What Doran deserves is a rollicking from the manager for failing either to bury the chance sooner or to square it to Sutherland who was in an even better position. The referee also deserves a rollicking from the manager for making a very poor decision. Hope that makes it clearer?

Don't pay too much attention to the BBC stats. Apparently Abedeen had just one attempt yesterday and none on target. Not entirely sure where their goal came from in that case! But yes, point taken. County are playing to avoid defeat and not to win. Once the novelty of the SPL wears off their fans will desert them and those with no strong alliegence will come back to TCS where the more attractive football is being played.

Yes it does. It's just that you don't understand the explanation!

Charming. Had Foran kicked him any harder then he certainly would have got a red card. That would really have helped our cause - I don't think. It's a bit of a sorry state of affairs when supporters are urging our players to physically assault the opposition. For the record, if you watch the highlights you will see that after being scythed down pretty fiercely by Foran, Fraser got up pretty quickly for a scumbag. He was lying down just long enough to check that his foot was still actually attached to his leg and then he was up and got on with the game. We have some talented players. If they would just focus on kicking the ball rather than the opposition we might start winning a few games.

What a bizarre comment....your basically saying that he deserved to be fouled, and that is somehow ok that no penalty was awarded because he took a touch instead of just hitting it first time!!! What ever happened to the concept of supporters looking for reasons to support a team and it's players? It seems to have become the norm these days to look for reasons not too!!! What a bizarre couple of comments. Of course I'm not saying he deserved to be fouled and I very clearly stated that the referee made the wrong decision. What I am saying is that had the right decision been made, Doran would be able to count himself lucky as he was fouled after having made a hash of a golden opportunity. As for supporting a team and its players I think that can best be served by providing encouragement on the park and being objective both in crticism and praise off it on this forum. In speaking to any Dons fans I may, of course, refer to what a diving cheating squirt Fraser is, but the reality is he was on the receiving end of some tackles which should not have been made. That kind of indiscipline is not going to help the campaign this season and it serves no purpose in trying to justify it on this forum. Nor does it serve any purpose bleating on about a bad penalty decison when the ball should have been in the back of the net before the defender got anywhere near the ball (or the player). No matter how good at their job people are, they do it better if areas for improvement are identified and worked on. By all means lets have some tongue in cheek banter, but when discussing serious topics let's try to be reasonably objective. It is completely wrong to equate being critical with not providing support - the reality is that objective criticism is often more supportive than saying "well done" when it was anything but. And why should we be "looking for reasons to support" our team. No need to look. We should simply be supporting the team - full stop - and saying things as we see them. What is the point of trying to deceive ourselves and others that things are different - we learn nothing from that. I sincerely hope the manager doesn't resort to looking for reasons to support his players rather than telling them how it is. The changing room discussion on Saturday might have gone something like this. "Christ we were hellish unlucky with the equaliser lads! Never mind, it was just one of those things - don't worry about it. You all did your best. There was no reason to think the referee would actually give the foul when Graeme pulled the lad's shirt. And what a cheating rabble they are to take a free kick before checking that you had all ambled back in to your defensive positions. And as for Jonny actually being able to cross a ball! well, who would have thought that? And what a great effort it was from the five of you marking that new lad, Smith. Or was it 6 of you? My but he's a big lad. Must be all of 8 foot 6! There was nothing anybody could have done to intercept that imperious leap of his. In any case, he looked a couple of yards offside to me. Come on Richie - get that Rioja open!" I have a suspicion that Terry's post match analysis might have gone somewhat differently. I will continue to support ICT by giving praise where praise is due and objective (and hopefully constructive) criticsm where it is not.

I think IHE has it pretty well spot on - but no marks for Shane? Fair point about the Proctorisation of Raven. His distribution was poor yesterday and that is what people notice, but he actually defended pretty well. Highlights now up. Can't really argue with OTJ's red. He lost possession through poor control of the ball and was reckless in response. Foran is a lucky boy as was Meekins but that was not shown on the highlights. I don't think any of the three tackles were malicious but all were reckless. These are the sort of tackles you think you are hard done by if you get a straight red but are relieved if it is only yellow. Anderson is unlucky but the decison for the penalty and the red card was correct. He did foul Sutherland before he cleared the ball. Doran was clearly fouled but he had plenty time to bury it or move it on to Shane who had an open goal. Wrong decision but we didn't deserve to get the right one. As for the Aberdeen goal! That clip could be used as an example to demonstrate just about every aspect of poor defending from a set piece that you could ever image. How they must be laughing in Aberdeen (and Dingwall) as they watch that tonight.

I think the "burly" is a bit more frequent than "hourly". If it was hourly then that might suit OTJ. Indeed, the burly of the SPL is considered by many to be hurly in it's frequency. This activity seems to have been too whirly for OTJ who lost his composure. I understand he is now feeling somewhart surly and is finding comfort with a curly wurly. Tomorrow's Sun headline reads "Surly ICT star copes with SPL hurly burly by eating Curly Wurly" . Is he friendly with a girlie called Shirley by any chance? For launching such an uncalled for challenge against one of our players I award myself my first of the season.

The only singing I heard from our end yesterday was a brief rendition of "you're not singing anymore" immediately after we took the lead. I couldn't help but have a wee smile to myself about the irony of that. On the plus side it was great to be surrounded by folk who, whilst not singing, were actually shouting encouragement and were clapping anything remotely deserving of applause. No moaning minnies around me today - perhaps they didn't bother turning up which was why the crowd was so poor. If so, it was all the more enjoyable for their absence.

Crowds have been inconsistent. We had 5888 on Christmas eve last season but only 3487 in April. The season before we started with 6144 in October and 4468 in January. I suspect the away support was a lot lower for the April and January matches and the number of home fans for our first home match against the Dons is way down on the last 2 seasons. Worrying.

The thing about the Doran "penalty" is that the ball should have been in the back of the net before the defender got anywhere near him. However, the decision was inconsistent. If the defender got the ball first and not the man then it should have been a corner and not a goal kick.

Great posts above from RiG, Bishbasbosh and particularly from Renegade. Agree with most of what was said although not RiG's view of Hayes (he was generally poor) or Bishbasbosh's view that we had the right set up to start with. We struggled to create in the first half because Foran was up front. Andrew Shinnie was very poor today and was rightly subbed early in the 2nd half. Sutherland came on and played up front and despite being a man down, that really sparked the game. This was partly because that is where Sutherland should be played and he was very effective. Bit it was even more because Foran was so much more effective when he dropped into a deeper midfield position. He put in twice as much effort than OTJ and Shinnie did between them whilst they were on the park. I would have hoped that TB would have seen how much more threatening we were with Sutherland up front and therefore I was rather dismayed to see that when MacKay came on for the tiring Doran (who was in serious danger of getting a second yellow) MacKay went up front and Sutherland went wide. Why not just leave Sutherland to carry on with the great job he was doing and either put MacKay wide or bring on Pepper instead? By the way, is there any word of how bad Shane's injury is? No doubt the highlights will see whether OTJ's tackle deserved a red. From the North Stand my immediate reaction was that it was a clear straight red. Having said that, I have also seen reds given for less than Meekings' and Foran's tackels. I thought Doran's booking was very soft but he was lucky not to get a second yellow later in the game. We could have been down to 7! No doubt Aberdeen fans are commenting on what a dirty side we are and how we are lucky we had as many as 10 on the park at the end of the game. We want to see fight and commitment from the players but we also need to see judgement and discipline - I am concerned we have some players who are prone to poor judgement at times and this could cost us later in the season. Finally - what a poor turnout from Inverness fans. The South stand was fuller than the North Stand. Subtract 2000 from the crowd for the travelling support and you get the numbers for the home support. Shocking for an SPL match against the Dons. Let's not get into the arguments of why the Inverness public are not supporting the local team but our crowds are going to drop below the 3000 mark soon and we cannot sustain SPL football with than kind of fan base. It was good to see a generally more solid defensive performance today but we have to start winning matches to attract the fans back.

The lads showed a lot of bottle to take the lead after going down to 10 men. But then they let it slip. Never mind - no point crying over spilt milk.

Highlights footage may prove me wrong but my initial reaction was that OTJ had no need to wait for the ref - he should have headed straight for the tunnel. It looked reckless and he was just nowhere near the ball. He may feel that he only clipped the guy but if that was so then that is only because the wee winger didn't quite jump high enough. I don't think it was malicious and it certainly wasn't red mist like the previous red card but it was a very ill judged tackle. Should he be told not to pull on an ICT shirt again because of this? No. Of course not, but for me it does raise the question of whether he should be in the side as a first choice. In some ways he seems to have some good qualities. His height means he wins balls in the air and at times there is an elegance about his play. But this is not the waltz on Strictly Come Dancing we are talking about, it's the SPL and I get the sense that the Scottish style of play is just a bit to frenetic for him. He suits the more composed positional style of continental football where you have time on the ball. Today he never had time on the ball and consequently was contributing very little to the match. Had the game been going better for him I think he would have pulled away from the challenge. Instead he commited himself to the tackle out of frustration. An intersting thing for me was the way Sutherland played up front in replacing the ineffectual A Shinie. Several of us on this forum have been calling on the manager to play Sutherland in the striking role and I feel that the way Sutherland plays up front would suit OTJ's style of play. I would like to see how that would work out but unfortunately for one reason or another, we may have to wait a while to find out.

Yup - the creme de la creme.

Sounds to me like you should be looking for a new job.

When Cownty come calling, we're sticking them in the uncovered west stand on a Friday night in October. They'll be absolutely Friesian. Maybe Roy will provide them all with a Jersey.

As if they don't have enough bomb scares there already.

When Cownty come calling they'll be Butchered.

All in all a pretty sh*te night for the 4 home countries. Scotland Held at home by the team ranked 97 in the world England held at home by Ukraine Wales being gubbed 6-1 by Serbia (who are ranked only 3 places above Wales) and probably worst of all, Northern Ireland being held at home by Luxemburg! Team GB anyone?

Give him the number 9 shirt. Great stuff.