DoofersDad

Great news. Congratulations to them all and I hope they all feature on the field and come back to Inverness safe and injury free. We've probably made these new signings in case they don't.

Let's hope he does better there than Lee Cox. Cox just got 2 starts for Swindon and is now out on loan at Oxford. It's a funny old world - whenever we sign players struggling in the nether reaches of the English league folk moan about lack of quality yet Cox is a player most of us would love to have kept. There are very few who seem to do do better once they leave ICT. There is something about ICT which brings the best out in players. It must be the great atmoshere inside the TCS and vocal support of the massive crowds.

Arbroath have shipped 15 goals in 7 competetive games this season so their defence is not good. I would expect the likes of Sutherland and Shinnie to look good against that kind of opposition. Neither looked good against Celtic so let's hope the performance against Arbroath gives them the confidence to dominate the Motherwell defence. One worry about Sutherland (a player who I have always liked by the way) is his ability to give goalkeeping practice to fans in row R rather than the opposition keeper. Keeping the ball down is a basic skill which he surely must practice in training. On match days I have seen him smash the ball into the back of the net during the warm ups but when it matters it usually goes over the bar. It's frustrating - he's capable of being a very good player indeed.

According to the Arsenal website deals with both Roberts and Brislen-Hall are confirmed. http://www.arsenal.com/news/reserves-news/roberts-finalises-inverness-loan-move

Interesting report on the BBC website. http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19421013 Getting to the group stages increases UEFA's "solidarity fund" paid to the SPL by £1million. Scottish clubs will also receive a co-efficient ranking boost as a result of the Glasgow side's success. ICT benefit from this so, well done, Tinks! Well done also to Terry and the team for allowing Celtic a morale boosting win on Saturday ahead of their crucial match against Helsingborgs last night!

I'm pleased to hear he played well against Arbroath but he was pretty mediocre against Celtic.

Congratulations to Butcher to picking a full strength side. This will allow further progress in the cup and ensure the players who will start against Motherwell go into the game with a bit more confidence.

I think a happy 90 minutes on the park would bring more money in.

This sounds really good to me. Although one the one hand I am disappointed that Sutherland is not playing up front and I wonder what is happening with Oswell (not even on the bench tonight - I think) Roberts looks as though he could be pretty useful. I also am excited by the idea of an arrangement where up and coming youngsters get the chance to show what they can do here. If they are on Arsenal's books they should show some real promise and whilst most won't make it through to the big time, some will. I know there will be some here who only want players on long term contracts and who will say these lads will not be playing for the shirt, but I think it will be good to see a range of promising players in the side from time to time. And whilst they may not be playing for the ICT shirt, they will be playing for a career with one of the best clubs in World football, so they'll be trying alright.

All together now ..... Let's all laugh at County, let's all laugh at County, La la la la. La la la la. and repeat - till we get gubbed by Arbroath tomorrow. Two serious points though. Three premier division sides knocked out tonight including the holders so this competition is already opening up. No messing about with this competition, please, let's make sure we win tomorrow and we could get a morale boosting, money earning run going. Secondly, Adams rested several players including Munro and Tokely. The report says that without ext ICT keeper Brown, the defeat might have been heavier. What is clear is that County have little depth and are heavily reliant on the defensive qualities of those two. If County are hit by an injury or two to key defenders they could struggle.

One despairs of the thought process of some people in authority. They will believe the unsubstantiated testimony of a handful of untrustworthy people but ignore the hard evidence of over 500 tests which failed to show he had ever taken a banned substance. I think Armstrong takes the view that no matter what the evidence says, he isn't going to win his case and it is simply not worth several more months or even years of legal wrangling, preparing cases, being constantly questioned and the subject of speculation. I think and hope that he is at peace with himself. He knows the truth and knows what he has achieved. The same strength of character which led him to his remarkable achievement is now allowing him move on and I, for one, admire him for that.

That's really interesting but yesterday on another thread I said:- "But sometimes, no matter what coaches see day in and day out on the training ground, that form never translates itself to the match day situation and you just have to accept that something different has to be tried. Surely we are that stage with the way MacKay and Sutherland are played and it is worrying that Butcher persists with this. Remember when he first came here and persevered with Barrowman when Rooney was clearly a far better option on match days. It must be frustrating for coaches when players who shine on the training ground perform poorly on matchdays. Equally it can be exasparating (in a nice way) when players who are nothing special in training do much better in matches. The skill is recognising these situations when they arise and responding positively to them. The concern with Butcher is that he seems to be too stubborn in persisting in what he thinks should work rather than recognising what actually does work." I don't doubt that Sutherland is doing well on the training ground, but I find it hard to believe he is capable of the kind of traditional wing play of skinning the full back, getting to the by line and crossing. I am sure that what he may be doing well on the training ground are aspects of play which would be great attributes to a player up front. What he can also do well is to turn a defender and fire an early hard shot (usually over the bar, admittedly,but he finds the space and has a go). If he is doing great things as a winger in training (and I don't doubt you) then that is really encouraging but only serves to strengthen my conviction that those skills linked with his physical attributes would make him an effective striker. I would love to see him play up front with Mackay. The fact is that whatever he may be doing in training, it didn't work playing him wide last season and it isn't working this season. Personally I think he could be a real star for ICT but he really has to play where he is most suited. Even with Nick Ross sadly out for a few games, we have good options in midfield but we are lightweight (literally) upfront. I just don't see what Butcher has got to lose by trying Sutherland up front with MacKay. I think it could give us the real cutting edge we currently lack up front.

That was some pretty hefty challenge he took when battling for the ball. Did it go beyond the bounds of fairness or is it just a consequence of Ross being too lightweight and easily brushed aside? The ref clearly saw nothing wrong with it and Celtic went on to score. How did others see it?

There is much which Butcher has done which I disagree with and one or two things he continues to do which bemuse me. But at the end of the day it is results on the park and the quality of football which determine whether the manager is doing a good job. He took over when we were cast adrift at the bottom of the SPL and whilst we just failed to stay up we ended up running away with the SFL title the following year in some style. Last year was difficult for reasons which are well known and which I won't repeat. We can certainly hope that this season we won't be ravaged by the kind of injuries we had last season and as this is now very much Butcher's team it will be reasonable to judge him on how we do. In looking at that we need to consider the very tight financial constraints he is working with. If we get relegated then it would be reasonable to ask questions but to my mind, if we continue with the more enerprising style of football he has started this season with, then anything between 9th and 11th represents a perfectly adequate performance from the management team and anything above that would be good. I know there are things he has done which have angered many and he hasn't exactly set the heather on fire but based on results to date, there is really no justification for questioning his position. Could somebody else do the job better? Probably - several of them are on this forum, apparently - but it is simply not going to happen. Even if we stay winless till Christmas the Board could not afford the compensation. So like it or not, Terry is staying and there is nothing to do but get behind whichever team he picks - even if you could have picked a better one.

The discussion about Munro and Tokely is interesting and will be sure to be a major talking point throughout the season. On the face of it they appear to be doing well but I think that is more of a reflection of the way Adams sets out his team to play. They are playing not to lose and as a result Munro and Tokely are being protected and their lack of pace and mobility is less of an issue. Because we are now a more attack minded side, our back four and particularly the 2 central defenders are getting rather exposed. I suspect that if Munro and Tokely were still in our side, they would be doing no better than King and Warren. I also think that if teams can break down County early on and they are forced to push more, there are several teams, us included, who could take good advantage of the weaknesses of our 2 ex defenders. One thing's for sure, when we play County it will be a lot more than just a local derby, there will be a few people with a point to prove. Of those, nobody will have more of a point to prove than Terry Butcher, but unlike Munro and Tokely, on the day he will be reliant of the performance of others to prove his points for him. I think he will be more animated than ever. I haven't decided whether I will watch the game or watch the manager on the day!

I disagree. The youngsters will get their chance but I think the manager needs to pick what he thinks is his strongest attack minded team available for this one. There are 3 reasons. We have yet to have a win in the league this season and there is a need for more time for the players to gel and particularly for the defence to gel. We are creating chances and scoring but are shipping too many. Get that right and we could win a lot of matches this season. Now is not the time to mess around with the side. There is also no point in giving players a "rest" because there is a weeks international beak after the Motherwell match. Linked to that is the need for team to get the confidence of a good win to get some momentum going. We need our best players playing well to acheive that. We should not under-estimate Arbroath - note that the Rangers were held by Berwick today and after 3 games are only 4th. Getting a win and hopefully by 2 or 3 goals or more should do wonders for morale. And as many have been saying on this forum, we need a decent cup run, both to ignite some momentum of support but also to help with our difficult financial situation. It may only be Arbroath but this is an important game for the club and we need to approach it with as much seriousness as if it was a crunch league game.

Agree we haven't seen the best of Esson this season, but if we didn't lose any of the first 3 matches and the keeper was well below his best then I'd say there wasn't too much to worry about.

It is easy to be critical of players after seeing them perform below expectations in just a handful of matches. Match day situations are different from the training ground and players who show great ability in training can take some time to adapt. I have seen Raven in the 2 home league games and he has not impressed, but rather than slate the lad I think he should be given his chance if the management team feel his showing on the training ground justifies his place in the starting line up ahead of Meekings. But sometimes, no matter what coaches see day in and day out on the training ground, that form never translates itself to the match day situation and you just have to accept that something different has to be tried. Surely we are that stage with the way MacKay and Sutherland are played and it is worrying that Butcher persists with this. Remember when he first came here and persevered with Barrowman when Rooney was clearly a far better option on match days. It must be frustrating for coaches when players who shine on the training ground perform poorly on matchdays. Equally it can be exasparating (in a nice way) when players who are nothing special in training do much better in matches. The skill is recognising these situations when they arise and responding positively to them. The concern with Butcher is that he seems to be too stubborn in persisting in what he thinks should work rather than recognising what actually does work. Raven maybe just needs a few more games to adjust to the SPL before things click with him. If things click then perhaps in a few months time we will have everyone on this forum saying he must be offerred a new contract. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we slate him and discourage him before he has had a real chance to prove himself. Let's have a bit of faith in the judgement of the management team and if Raven continues in the team for a few more matches, give him support to help him boost his confidence.

Didn't see any Celtic fans in the North stand but there were plenty who weren't supporting ICT.

Celtic may have beaten us 4 -2 on the park but their supporters beat us 10 - 0 on the terraces. Surely we must have the worst home fans in the league and you can see how badly it affects the team; they are scared stiff of making mistakes and receiving a torrent of abuse from the so-called support. In the match thread I said I think the players lack confidence and to be honest, a significant part of that is that they are worried about getting abuse when things don't go right. The crowd do precious little to lift the team but plenty to let the team know that they do not meet the fan's often unrealistic expectations. Take two examples from today. One of the guys sat next to me got to his feet after Celtic's 2nd goal and let rip with a tirade of vitriolic abuse aimed at Terry Butcher. When we scored our goals he simply sat in his seat and didn't even clap. He generally mumped and moaned about what was on display and never once as far as I was aware clapped or uttered any words of encouragement. And amongst the general moaning behind me were comments during a passage of play when we were keeping possession well but not making progress. "F***ing do something with it" was the shout from behind. No sooner had that advice been given than Morrison, I think it was, tried to put the ball over the defence for Andrew Shinnie to run on - it nearly came off but was well cut out and the same voice shouts out, "for f***'s sake don't give it away!" Just what do these people want and expect? We're not Barcelona and if we try anything other than the safe ball it will come off less often than it doesn't. Today we were up against the league champions and their side is stuffed with internationals and sometimes balls don't find their intended target because very good defenders read the situation and do their job well. Let's give them credit for that. And let's give our team credit for trying to play football against Celtic rather than being boring like County and simply stopping them playing and having no ambition. Do these people ever stop to think about what the impact is on the players? Presumably not. How do they think that players feel when they hear more noise in shouts of frustration and abuse when they make an error than they hear in applause and shouts of encouragement when they play a 30 yard pass inch perfect to a team mate? Well, it doesn't make them feel confident and appreciated that's for sure. Believe me, I get just as frustrated as anyone, even angry, when players make basic errors but I respond by silently cursing to my self, rolling my eyes or shaking my head or the like - I don't voice my feelings at the player but will make a point of clapping and shouting encouragement when they next get the ball and use it well. This thread is about small crowds and the concern that some folk no longer come to watch the team. To be honest, it would be a good thing if some who still come along on a Saturday afternoon started staying away. That might mean that those who actually support the team might have more of an influence on the mood of the crowd as a whole and the team will respond to a more positive atmosphere in the ground. That in turn might encourage others to start supporting the team and take the place of the moaners. Now I expect there will be those who will have a go at me saying that they pay good money and can expect to see better entertainment and have a right to make their views known. I would agree with that but the way to do that is to express your views on this forum or directly to the club if you are that angry. On match days, the players really need the support and encouragement of the fans and it really makes me angry that so many who turn up seem to do their best to abuse and discourage the team. They fail to understand that far from venting their anger at what they see as the problem, they are actually part of the problem themselves. I think I am right in saying there are signs at the gates referring to "home support". That is for peope who will support the home team, not people who apparently want the home team to win but who abuse rather than support them. Perhaps there should be signs at the gates directing those who are going to shout abuse at the home team to the South Stand because the only team that benefits from the way some of the paying customers in the main and North stands behave is the away team. Apologies for the length of this rant but I really am getting well and truly p***ed off by the behaviour of some of the people who pay to watch our team but who undermine the confidence of the team and ruin the matchday experience for others. By all means criticise the team as much as you want on this forum but for Christ's sake, on a match day give the team what they so desparately need - support! How f***ing difficult is that?

Missed the first goal due to the police's idea of traffic "management" on a match day being to stop traffic coming off the bridge with the result that ther traffic was backing up almost to the Munlochy junction and I was in a queue for nearly 45 minutes and arrived 15 minutes after kick off. "Lucky b*stard" I hear you say. I'm not too disheartened. Clearly there were weaknesses at the back and Celtic had more quality, but I felt 2 - 4 was a better reflection of the play than 0 - 4. Celtic never had spells were they were laying seige to our goal and to honest, never particularly threatened as much as one might expect the champions to do. They were just more clinical in front of goal. But I don't think any of the ICT squad played particularly well. I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's not a lack of ability or passion, it is lack of confidence. To often there is either not the confidence to have a pop at goal or to take a man on. I thought that was particularly the case with Doran who, in many ways was about the best ICT player today. There were time that he controlled the ball well, slipped his marker and surged forward but then lacked the confidence to either drive into the box or play a more difficult but telling pass. Instead he would stop and look to play a simple ball to someone who was in no better position than he to do anything with it. At times there were players in good positions which he seemed unable to spot so don't know whether it is lack of awareness or lack of confidence I don't know, but he is someone who you feel could be a big player for us. Again I thought that Billy Mackay put in a good shift but he needs to play in partnership with a bigger striker. I really would like to see him playing up front with Sutherland and I still fail to understand why Sutherland is played where he is. The poor lad's confidence looks shot to shreds and he is the obvious casulaty to make room for the return of OTJ and Foran (both of whom were badly missed today). Raven looks as though he is going to struggle at this level and Meekings gave us a lot more options when he came on instead. The big disappointment for me was Andrew Shinnie who contributed little. I felt his work rate was poor and he seemed to be the one player who never pressured the opposition. Pepper showed much better attitude when he came on and whilst he was disposessed rather easily at times, he played a quality ball to Draper for the 2nd. Draper's composure for the 2 goals bodes well for the future. I was also encouraged by the willingness to play passing football even when 4 goals down and whilst the quality and cohesion in the side was a bit dissapointing, we will play worse and win this season.

Either way it takes even longer in a caravan.

Just to add that if it can be done in Inverness it can be done in Dundee. ICT's match against Celtic tomorrow has been moved to 12.45 so there is no clash with the big cup match at 15.00 between Clach and Lossie.

I appreciate that the games can't be played at the same time, especially in Dundee where the 2 grounds are so close, but why can't they just stagger the games with one game kicking off at, say, midday and the other at 4pm? That should be enough of a time gap to prevent any clashes between the rival fans of the home teams whilst allowing visiting fans the opportunity to get to the games.

Lots of tickets available. Should be a good game so an opportunity to encourage those who don't normally attend to enjoy a some quality football. A win would set us up nicely for the season so let's give the lads some real encouragement.