DoofersDad

Always best to make sure. Given Hibs' recent experience it could have been a foot over the line and still not given. So, yes, it would probably have gone in but I'm not so sure it would have been a goal - after all, most of these big decisions go against us in the derby games.

And when asked at the end of his BBC interview whether he wanted to say anything about the Aberdeen situation he just walked off without a word. Total lack of class. A simple "No" would've been fair enough. "They're looking for a manager with charm and charisma - so that rules me out" would have been more honest.

Has nobody but me noticed that the home grown under-20 players are not perceived as nearly as good as under-20 loanees and signings from English teams? Much more sensible, it seems, in the Butcher mindset, to improve English loanees than to improve our own young players...after all an improved loanee will possibly get an English team more money. when they move on...so we might get more of them to improve.....while we, in the meantime, dunt our own kids with no improvement....or return to our coffers. I think everybody but you has noticed that today we have acheived a top 6 finish for the first time in the club's history. Butcher must be doing something right don't you think?

I thought he was better than most. I haven't seen the highlights yet but my impression was that he called it right both for the penalty and the free kick from which County scored (silly 2 handed push in the back from Doran - I think!). He knew it would be a highly charged game but he kept the game flowing and rather than get the cards out early for a couple of players and potentially ruining the game he made a point of having a word with the players. The result was a hard fought but generally fairly contested game for which I think the players of both sides and the referee can take credit. If there was one thing I would criticise him for it would be for not getting the card out for a couple of County players who went OTT in questioning his decision over the penalty. With that going on he wouldn't have seen what Vigurs was up to.

Dundee Utd have drawn 1- 1 That confirms top six for us. Fantastic acheivement. Well done to Terry and the boys!

Great result. some really pleasing aspects to the game I thought. It was a very disciplined performance. It was a vital derby game but there was no diving in and rash challenges. The team all worked hard and closed down well. The fact that no ICT player was booked is testament to that discipline. Taylor came in in very difficult circumstances and played a blinder. Clearly Terry will have a difficult decision to make when Shinnie is available again. Whilst it was unfortunate the crowd was not bigger, those that were there gave great support. The supporters who sang throughout the game were fantastic and I'm sure contributed as much to the win as the players on the park. It was as good an atmosphere as I can remember for any match at TCS. Well done lads! As for County, I wonder what the end of their run, the falling out between Adams and Brittain and the speculation about Adams heading to Aberdeen will do to their confidence. I'm sure their top six slot is all but assured but they could end up with a bit of a stuttering run to the end of the season after this. Oh, and their supporters! were there actually any at the game or were those cardboard cutouts in the South Stand? Now that we have the longest currently unbeaten run in the SPL, hopefully we can press on with confidence to a European place. A great day all round with the respective post match comments of the 2 managers the icing on the cake.

Just loved Terry's response to Adams' reaction to the penalty. He said "If I'd have lost to a penalty like that, I would probably have been annoyed as well because I would've felt the defenders could've done better." Brilliant!

4 - 1 win for Motherwell over Hibs tonight takes us a further step closer to securing top six. Good performance by team and fans tomorrow and we should be there.

I wonder if the independence campaign forums have such heated debates going on about the likely outcome and implications of tomorrow's game between ICT and County?

At the end of the day, I think the arguments for or against separation are going to be largely irrelevant. People understand three key points. The first is that voting for independence would be a huge historical change and that there is a significant degree of uncertainty about what the longer term implications of that would be. The second is that life within the UK is generally not too bad - after all, it's not like the former Soviet nations where the Russian tanks rolled in if the natives got a bit restless. The third is that we get a fair bit of say about our own destiny already through the Scottish Parliament. So there will be aspects of the "Yes" campaign which people may find very attractive but they are not going take that leap of faith and vote for it. It's a bit like parachute jumping - lots of people think it looks very exciting but are happy just to watch other people do it.

Seeing as you've asked, I'd like him not to do it again.

As it should be. It would be a sad day if others were more concerned about the behaviour of our manager than we are. It is great he's so passionate, but that is not an excuse for poor behaviour.

No, but it breeches the rules about bringing bottles into the stadium.

Success is acheived by understanding how you can fail. The complacency rife on this forum is a dangerous thing. We have won nothing yet. We may be three games away from our greatest achievement yet but we could also be 3 games away from being 9th. I remember the season we got relegated and after having gone on a great run after Butcher's appointment there was a feeling we were safe and sound - and we all know what happened next. A sense of reality is needed to make people appreciate that 100% effort all round is required if this season is not to end up as an average bottom six , no cup final sort of season. Some folk seem to me a bit like the cyclist who raised both hands in salute in the finishing straight only to crash and have the whole bunch overtake him. When you've fallen on your erse, looking upwards is about all you can do.

Very poor example. It is good that he is passionate about the game but he needs to keep it in check. His reaction to a bad decision or a bad mistake by one of the players should reflect how he expects his players to react on the park to the same incidents. Just as an example, last week Villa's young defender Nathan Baker scored a howler of an OG in the crunch relegation match against Reading. Rather than kick the post and swear, Baker's team mate Vlaar came over, put his arm round his shoulder and gave him a few words of encouragement. Baker never put a foot wrong for the rest of the match. I don't know what the specific incident was that caused Terry to lose it but I have certainly seen him lose it before when players make bad mistakes. Players know well enough themselves when they have fouled up and seeing their manager behave like that is hardly going to help in getting their confidence back. Get a grip, Terry!

Interesting choice of word here DD. The implication being that those who vote NO do not have courage and therefore are . . . cowards? I am not averse to use of over-exaggeration, perhaps not as good as Paxman granted, but this is exactly the kind of terminology used by the SNP for decades and now by the YES campaign to make people vote for them by using rhetoric that implies if you don't, you are less of a Scot or worse, a traitor to your people. Or even less of a human being. Still like your posts on ICT matters though! There is a big difference between lacking courage and being a coward. The fact is that it often does take courage to embrace change whether it be in the politics or personal matters. Take someone in a steady job living in a comfortable house who gets an offer of a job somewhere else which whilst offering lots of potential, lacks security. You need courage to take the risk. Some will decide that they don't want to take the risk for whatever reason and will settle for what they have. It doesn;t make them cowards - it just means they have a different attitude to risk. We know what it is like being part of the UK and most people will think it's OK. Some of those people like the idea of independence and will think things could be better but are worried that there are too many uncertainties to risk it - so they will vote no. Better the devil you know and all that. That is actually an important point because it explains the drop in the polls for independence. Previously people who liked the concept would say they would vote for independence but now that they have the chance to make that reality they are not prepared to take the risk. The challenge for the "Yes" campaign is twofold. Firstly they need to sell the concept and secondly they need to convince people that the risk is worth taking - and for most people that means they need to be convinced that it actually isn't much of a risk at all. This brings us back to the very reasonable question that Kingsmills asks because as Charles knows all too well, the fact is that in other countries where people have voted for change, they haven't lived to regret it. In other words, it was a risk worth taking. And if those who are attracted by the arguments of the "Yes" campaign can be persuaded that the risk of voting "Yes" are small, then the tide will turn and Independence will be a very real possibility. I should say that I say all this as a genuine undecided voter. I may be seen to be siding with the "Yes" campaign here but that is only because the arguments of the other side on this point simply don't wash. If Charles or others in the "No" camp wish to gain the vote of another floating voter it would be a good idea to provide a nice long list of countries in answers to Kingsmill's straightforward and very pertinent question. On the subject of the "No" camp I see Lionel Messi is voting with his feet again. A couple of cracking goals for Barcelona tonight.

Alex, if you look at the matches you have identified in your post and then look at the results I have postulated, all 5 clubs can overtake us. There aren't actually many matches between these 5 teams. Dundee Utd play both Aberdeen and St Johnstone and that's it. Kilmarnock and Hibs don't actually play against any of the other teams in that group. Aberdeen would need at least a point out of Dundee United and Dundee United would need to beat St Johnstone. Assuming they all win their games against us and the clubs above and below then they would all overtake us. Can't see it happening mind you but it has been a very unpredictable season. If we can still be 9th at the split, I for one am certainly not counting my chickens about being top 6 yet.

Absoultely not. What Kingsmills' proposition implies is that as long as Scotland voted for separation, then that would make it a good thing simply because it had come to pass. That is attempting to use "after the fact" justification of something which is currently before the fact. You can't simply say "Well look chaps, if you vote for separation, then that will make it good so therefore it is good, so therefore vote for it". That doesn't hold water. Rubbish. What his proposition implies is that once people have voted for separation they don't want to go back. I agree with you when you say "You can't simply say "Well look chaps, if you vote for separation, then that will make it good so therefore it is good, so therefore vote for it". That doesn't hold water." - But that is not what is being said by the separatists. What is being said is that if you think it is a good idea, vote for it because others who have had the courage to vote for change have not lived to regret it.

Charles, you contradict yourself. If people did repent at leisure after separating in haste then there would be countries who voted for independence and now wish to revert to their former status. It is therefore a perfectly reasonable question to ask. If you are unable to name any then that suggests that any country that may have separated in haste is, in fact, enjoying their independence at leisure.

I don't think we are yet in the realms of miracles being needed to thwart us. In fact, it is quite possible that at the split we could be 9th. We have 3 very tough games ahead of us; County are flying whilst Hibs and St Johnstone are fighting hard to gain a top 6 slot as well. So let's say that we lose our next 3 games and remain on 44 points, then let's have a look at what the teams below us need to do to better that. If St J beat us then they can afford to lose to Dundee Utd and still be ahead of us. If Hibs beat us, then they need 2 points from their 2 games against the top 2. Dundee Utd need 6 points which they get by beating Dundee and St J. They can afford to lose against Aberdeen and still be ahead of us. Kilmarnock would need 7 points from matches against County, St M and Dundee. Aberdeen would need 7 points from their matches against Celtic, Hearts and Dundee U. So Mathematically still quite feasible to be 9th at the split so top 6 is certainly not a given. We need a result against County to make things comfortable and to restore pride and confidence. Saturday's game is the most important game of the season so far so let's get behind the team and show them just who the best team in the Highlands is.

Our position has been helped by Euan Norris's fine decision not to award a goal to Hibs following Griffith's free kick. Makes a nice change to say "well done" to a referee!

Or is the pitch needing some work on it to recover from the mauling by the rugger b*ggers?

With Wigan being drawn against championship opposition in the semi-final, it could be that Roman Golabart will run out at Wembley for an FA Cup final. One to keep an eye on.

Really? I didn't realise that. County are currently on 11 - did we go longer? That's not what I meant. If we win next week we will be 5 games currently undefeated in the league, Dundee Utd are also curently on 4. County may be on 11 undefeated at the moment but next week they will be on zero ganes undefeated.

With us playing the bottom side today and County playing the top side, for them to get two more points than us and leapfrog us into third has to make it a bad day. But let's look at the positives. The teams in mid table seem to be doing all they can to avoid being in the top six. If we win next week and other results go our way we could confirm our top six slot. If we win next week then we will have the longest unbeaten run in the league. And who would ever have thought that the two Old Filth teams would be gubbed by such small town teams as Ross County and Annan Athletic on the same day. Now that just has to be good for Scottish football.