Here:

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297387-rangers-to-go-into-administration/

PS: apologies for any spelling mistakes in the above thread, I forgot to spell check it haha

It's baffling that the administrator has been trying to push through the signing of Daniel Cousin, to incur an additional cost of around £7,000 a week at a time when they need to be cutting costs. Shouldn't that money be used to pay some of their taxes or other creditors?

It's baffling that the administrator has been trying to push through the signing of Daniel Cousin, to incur an additional cost of around £7,000 a week at a time when they need to be cutting costs. Shouldn't that money be used to pay some of their taxes or other creditors?

I agree. It doesn't add up. The administrators are in charge and they are there to cut costs. Their not going to win anything this season, so he has no added value. Their job is to curb the spending, not sign players. I wonder if they are part of a wider Craig Whyte conspiracy?!

Every honour that was stolen from Scottish football during the Murray regime should be stripped from Rangers immediately. Unlike Fred Goodwin (long story on another thread ) who had his decisions ratified by a board, regulatory authority and financial ombudsman, David Murray took decisions as the boss and owner. He and he alone is culpable for this diabolical situation.

The bag of weasels, nest of vipers etc passed, so graciously, to the ultimate asset stripper for £1 was built and created by Sir David Murray (let's see how long he keeps his title for a crime much greater than Fred's? Oh but hold on..........he's a huge donor to the Conservative Party and hates the Nats so.......). The use of EBT as a means of financial gain allowed Murray to spent way beyond Rangers means in buying and funding players they could not afford. This is cheating and illegal.

Are we seriously to believe that one of the most able and successful businessmen that our country has produced didn't know exactly what he was doing, why he was doing it and when? Don't be so naive.

Rangers won titles and trophies whilst operating to different rules from the rest of those in the competition. They have been caught and now need punished. Happens in sport throughout the world and must happen in Scotland now. If no action is taken this will be a carte blanche to continue.

As for Craig Whyte...............his plans are moving on exactly as scheduled...........liquidation may be next but who cares............he owns all the assets, has preferential status (has probably used the Ticketus money to pay back his debt write down to Lloyds already!) and will sit back and wait for the 'Rangers cannae die' brigade to come and pay him vast sums of money to secure Ibrox, Murray Park and the rest. He will make a packet.

Last theory.........is it beyond it to believe (as has been suggested to me by someone, allegedly, in the know) that once the dust has settled, Craig Whyte's cup runneth over, that a percentage of the net gain is to be split with Mr Murray?

??????

Edited February 20, 201213 yr by Sorted

Every honour that was stolen from Scottish football during the Murray regime should be stripped from Rangers immediately.

The use of EBT as a means of financial gain allowed Murray to spent way beyond Rangers means in buying and funding players they could not afford. This is cheating and illegal.

How did I miss it? Hang on, I'll check with BBC news....nope, not there? Sky? Not there either. Can't seem to find anywhere that the outcome of the case was announced. Ah, it must be trial-by-internet-forum. Much more reliable.

Without waiting for the official verdict it seems that Rangers' problem is that they didn't use some of the money saved with the EBTs to employ a decent tax lawyer to make sure the scheme was completely legit and properly operated so that there couldn't have been a challenge from the Revenue in the first place...

Every honour that was stolen from Scottish football during the Murray regime should be stripped from Rangers immediately.

The use of EBT as a means of financial gain allowed Murray to spent way beyond Rangers means in buying and funding players they could not afford. This is cheating and illegal.

How did I miss it? Hang on, I'll check with BBC news....nope, not there? Sky? Not there either. Can't seem to find anywhere that the outcome of the case was announced. Ah, it must be trial-by-internet-forum. Much more reliable.

What have you missed?

Have you missed the detailed reporting of the facts? Have you missed the admission by the club that they have used EBTs? Have you missed the statement by HMRC that they view this as illegal and will pursue all those who have operated in this manner to court?

Oh..........I see where you're coming from. You are choosing the path that until a court of law finds Rangers guilty you think every thing in the garden in rosy and the consequences/repercussions of their guilt should not be discussed until the legal process is concluded. Assume this is for fear of compromising the integrity of the process?

And for the record, Adolf Hitler (despite his failure to appear in court) was guilty. You okay with this or should we not be allowed to discuss or have an opinion due to his failure to have legal closure?

Rangers are guilty. The degree of guilt is all that has to be established.

If Godwin were alive today, he'd be turning in his grave.

http://news.stv.tv/s...-fund-takeover/

It just gets better and better!

I think the use of the EBT's was quite nievely exploited without them fully exploring the avenues that it could lead to or open up and the potential problems that it may bring, certainly at the time Rangers weren't the only club to make use of them and it has been widely reported that there are at least 8 or 9 EPL clubs that are being investigated for the same thing and some have already come to settlements however none of the teams involved have been named.

Technically Rangers exploited what they say as loopholes in the law as did these other clubs and it is not until now or the last few years that the HMRC have started to clamp down on them. The extent to which they have pushed those bounderies or went passed those bounderies has still to be revealed but really this is only part of the whole mess.

Everyone is getting caught up in the 'big case' but lets be clear this didn't tip the club into administration, it was the complete ineptitude and mis-management by CW that has done this in the non payment of the £9m, are we to believe CW in his comments today that it is actually only roughly £4.5m and they offered to pay £2.5m up front with monthly instalments of £0.5m and that the HMRC point blank refused this? I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth as the HMRC, as I have said before, stated many times they don't want the club to go out of business and would work with them.

Has it all been part of his ploy, is it really mis-management or a cunning plan from a man who understands the laws of administration and sequestration and the ins and outs of how it all works and how he can make his money from it?

Today CW announces that after the club comes out of administration he'll step down and walk away leaving his shares to the fans and that he will make nothing from it, hmmmm I think not!! It's getting closer and closer to what I suggested beforehand that he will make a tidy little penny from this whole situation.

I don't agree that they should be stripped of honours, it's not the players and fans fault that the running of the club was carried out the way it was, they went out and done their job and were successful, yes you'll say that without the financial gain they wouldn't have had those players and therefore may not have been as good and as successful but that's all ifs and buts. If you strip them of the titles who do you award them to? Do you award them to anyone at all? All in all it becomes a total farce.

Portsmouth won the FA Cup then went into administration not that long afterwards, clearly due to not being able to pay their bills, putting aside whether it was PAYE, Tax, VAT or day to day bills should they be stripped of that title? I am sure if I went and researched it I would find other cases like this but this is the other more high profile case I can think of.

Just putting it out there but is it feasible to argue that teams that who are in debt or have overdrafts are living outwith their means and are therefore cheating, they are making use of money that is otherwise not theirs in order to either supplement the on field team or keep the club going, where do you stop with all this?

Life is rarely simple. Anyone out there got a mortgage? We all spend money we haven't got and it is leant to us on the expectation we will be able to pay it back with interest. But if house prices fall and I slip into negative equity and then I lose my job and am no longer able to repay my loan even by selling my home, does that make me a criminal? No. It makes me unlucky.

Most businesses rely on borrowing to fund them to maintain cash flow whilst the value of the business is tied up in the assets; and a football club is no different. The question is, at what point does the borrowing or buying assets on credit become unreasonable? In Rangers case it was probably quite a long time ago but it is almost imposible for the casual observer to come to any sensible opinion. It is all too complicated and murky. We just have to hope that the processes going on at the moment allow the taxpayer to recoup what is owed and that if the law has been broken, those responsible are brought to justice. We don't want cheating on or off the field.

Mr Caleyjag, You have said that seemingly 7 or 8 EPL clubs have been paying players through this EBT system. I have been told that it is 17 in the EPL, with several others in the Championship, AND one other in Scotland. HMRC are going to investigate these clubs and chase them for the tax owed.

No saying that any of this is ok, it was a loophole which Rangers tried to get away with avoiding tax, but even without all of this they still rung up huge debts. If Rangers had debts of £57m a while back, their annual income was probably about 66% of that. The likes of Killis were £18m in debt, with an income of around £ 5-6m, thats a 300% difference. Who has the worse financial brain?

There's nothing wrong with using an EBT in itself, thousands of companies do that legitimately. Likewise there's nothing wrong with making payments into overseas bank accounts, or with making loans to employees.

I think what HMRC have an issue with is clubs who claimed to be making (non-taxable) loans to players through EBTs with complicated terms that in reality meant the loans were never intended to be repaid. Which means they were not really loans, they were taxable salary payments.

From what I hear, EBTs weren't illegal at the time but they now are. So, what gives? Is the law being applied retrospectively? Sounds unlikely.

Rangers did ring up huge debts but then got them down again. As far as I can see, their only real problem was the EBT. The whole £9M and complete financial mismanagement seems bizarre from an experienced businessman that took so long to get hold of the club.

I'm still completely confused as to Craig Whyte. Everything you hear makes him seem like a Walter Mitty figure. I just struggle to believe that's true, given the due diligence he took. Either that, or he's a crook looking to siphon off everything - but it just brings up further questions if that's the case. Firstly, why does he seem so bad at it? I can see the option of Rangers 2012 or whatever (the best suggestion was Rangers FC as opposed to Glasgow Rangers FC) but he doesn't seem to be very good at that option either. So given that Rangers as a current going concern, a fantasy, an asset-stripping project or a new club don't seem to be viable, what on Earth is going on?

I can see the option of Rangers 2012 or whatever

Rangers 1690?

The loss of Rangers

May be offset by a full stadium when Ross County visit

And for the record, Adolf Hitler (despite his failure to appear in court) was guilty. You okay with this or should we not be allowed to discuss or have an opinion due to his failure to have legal closure

A good few of his mates did appear in court though in Nuremborg , and not to drive F1 cars

Charles Bannerman, on 13 February 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

And as I said in my Highland News column last week, after all those years of hallmark triumphalistic hubris, a certain sector of the Rangers support might indeed learn a little about humility from a journey through the lower leagues and trips to the likes of Alloa, Forfar and...... Central Park Cowdenbeath

That means Rangers will miss the joys of Dingwall ????

Edited February 22, 201213 yr by Laurence

Charles Bannerman, on 13 February 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

And as I said in my Highland News column last week, after all those years of hallmark triumphalistic hubris, a certain sector of the Rangers support might indeed learn a little about humility from a journey through the lower leagues and trips to the likes of Alloa, Forfar and...... Central Park Cowdenbeath

That means Rangers will miss the joys of Dingwall ????

I quite deliberately omitted Dingwall from the list of lower league grounds which Rangers "in a certain eventuality" might end up visiting! In the frist place I was looking at some of the decidedly less luxurious ones and VP in that context is pretty up market. And in the second place, I am trusting that VP will not be a lower league ground next season!

It may be downmarket for those Govan Dandies but a real fitba' match at Alloa at 3pm on a Saturday is pretty much my idea of perfection. Sorry Charles, have you ever been there?

A few visits ago to TCS I was filmed by the police as we sat quietly in the north stand. Admittedly this was during the Brewster shoe-waggling era and CaleyD sitting in the seat in front of me had a wee (not much more than A4) banner...the whole thing was utter nonsense and pretty much nailed the reason I'll very reluctantly go back to TCS.

That won't happen at Cowdenbeath.

Wee grounds are the core of Scottish football, long may they last.

It may be downmarket for those Govan Dandies but a real fitba' match at Alloa at 3pm on a Saturday is pretty much my idea of perfection. Sorry Charles, have you ever been there?

CaleyD sitting in the seat in front of me had a wee

On the first point, the original comment was indeed made from the point of view of the said Govan Dandies and although I haven't been to Alloa in particular, there have been others like Arbroath and Forfar where I would share your sentiments absolutely. Similarly I enjoy a trip to Clach Park as much as I used to treasure visits to Kingsmills and Telford Street.

On the second point.... did the Police arrest him for that?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17146506

It just keeps getting worse for them!!

We all knew they would never meet the 31st March deadline and that's not really the part that should be worrying Rangers fans the most, the fact that the tax rangle with the HMRC seemingly keeps escalating it's more a case of when will it stop than how will it stop. It just makes the management of the club even more baffling.

Someone pointed out to me today that if you put the top four in the SPL in reverse order the first letters spell HMRC. And Rangers are caught in the middle. There is no escape!

Well done Hearts today! Wish we could have done that last week.

Schadenfreude

And still, it goes on.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17262725