Police and Stewards

[CaleyD]

Caley D, I don't want this to turn into who's right and who's wrong.

I would be worried if people took things into their own hands, If a person doesnt think a steward or police officers is not doing their job correctly I hope they are not going to get involved and  decide to start escorting others out.

I don't want to see it happen either, but it will one day unless the club/police/stewards move to improve things and start acknowledging and acting on complaints they receive instead of shrugging them off with BS answers or making those who complain feel like they are the troublemakers.

Yes the club does pay for the required number of police officers on duty but a lot of the time they have to come out early to police the city centre and trains and stay on until the centre is clear or the supporters leave on a train. These hours are outwith what the club pays for.

That's complete whataboutery and has nothing to do with what happens in the stadium which is what people on here are complaining about.

Its always easy to stand at the side and criticise. I believe that when the SPL deligate submits their report this includes the stewarding and policing of he event and maybe for those who do have concerns they could bring it up with the SPL. I wouldn't be surprised if in general they have been quite happy about the stewarding of these matches however nothing is perfect and there will always be the odd incident that occurs and displeases individuals. 

I can assure you that the SPL are far from happy about the stewarding and policing at ICT....did you not see all the stuff in the newspapers etc following our game against Rangers at the start of the season?  The Club AND Northern Constabulary were torn a new ersehole over their handling of the Rangers Fans...or to be more precise, the lack of handling.

[Johnboy]

I would be worried if people took things into their own hands, If a person doesnt think a steward or police officers is not doing their job correctly I hope they are not going to get involved and  decide to start escorting others out.

 

No one in their right mind is advocating that aggrieved supporters should take matters into their own hands....

Is it not a matter of some concern to you that opposing fans gained access to a section of the ground clearly designated for the home support..?

Supposing even greater numbers of away supporters attempt the same trick next time around..?

Can't you see the potential for a major outbreak of crowd unrest, if this situation is not addressed..?  

[Guest macgint71]

I think the club needs to address this, season ticket holders need to address this aswell due to buying tickets for their OF mates. I do agree that there are some issues but I really dont think its the major problem that some think it is, maybe i'm not seeing this happening as I'm too busy watching the football.

[Guest eliza]

Put it this way, I have my season ticket and I know those around me who have bought their seats too and are at the games, week in and week out.    If I realise that there are away fans in any surrounding seats, I will make my feelings known to the nearest Steward and, if no action is taken, an official complaint will be made to the Police - why should I refrain from doing so.

If every other season ticket holder acts in the same way, then the situation will eventually be controlled but, until then the Police and Stewards have to get their act in gear.

Never again do I wish to be in the situation that started to arise towards the end of the last game against Rangers - it was intimidating to say the least, but we must not let that stop us supporting ICT.

Segregations must be full and complete, despite monetary gains to the Club or whoever, at the "big" games, the safety, security and comfort of the fans is paramount.

[Scotty]

The sad part of all this - and without delving into the rights and wrongs or responsibilities of all parties - is that we have to discuss the same topic time after time after time after time and no-one who could take steps to alleviate it seems to do anything about it.

[jaggedthistle]

Unfortunately, I have a season ticket for the main stand; sitting in the rows behind the hospitality boffs.  9 games out of 10 this season the hospitality section in front of us has been packed with away supporters.  During the first Rangers game of the season 7 guys in front of us were sitting drinking whisky out of a hipflask.  I signalled to a steward AND a policeman who were standing directly in front of them and pointed at the hipflask while one of them was drinking from it.  Both just looked at me, the steward shrugged his shoulders then continued to watch the game.  During a Dundee Utd game near the start of the season, when DU scored the row in front of us leapt to their feet and started with the hand gestures to their fellow supporters in the north stand.  Someone behind us yelled at them to remember which stand they were in.  The guy in front of us thought that it was me and my partner that had shouted at him and threatened to "deck" us right there and then.  At this point it was nearly the end of the game and I just wanted to go home.  I wrote a letter to Mr Savage the next day and I'm still to hear from anyone.

I've supported ICT since the merge and I hate the fact that I am made to feel threatened and intimidated in my home ground.  It pains me to say this, but I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets next year.  :007:

[Govan Jaggie]

We could always move the pointless west stand into the away end which would at least give them more seats.  I did see the police warn a Rangers fan in the west stand after the "first goal".  Why only a warning?  This was someone who was breeching segragation.  He should have been removed.

[Guest macgint71]

Unfortunately, I have a season ticket for the main stand; sitting in the rows behind the hospitality boffs.  9 games out of 10 this season the hospitality section in front of us has been packed with away supporters.  During the first Rangers game of the season 7 guys in front of us were sitting drinking whisky out of a hipflask.  I signalled to a steward AND a policeman who were standing directly in front of them and pointed at the hipflask while one of them was drinking from it.  Both just looked at me, the steward shrugged his shoulders then continued to watch the game.  During a Dundee Utd game near the start of the season, when DU scored the row in front of us leapt to their feet and started with the hand gestures to their fellow supporters in the north stand.  Someone behind us yelled at them to remember which stand they were in.  The guy in front of us thought that it was me and my partner that had shouted at him and threatened to "deck" us right there and then.  At this point it was nearly the end of the game and I just wanted to go home.  I wrote a letter to Mr Savage the next day and I'm still to hear from anyone.

I've supported ICT since the merge and I hate the fact that I am made to feel threatened and intimidated in my home ground.  It pains me to say this, but I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets next year.   :007:

I must say although I was on one earlier I have to agree that this is shocking

[12th Man]

Unfortunately, I have a season ticket for the main stand; sitting in the rows behind the hospitality boffs.  9 games out of 10 this season the hospitality section in front of us has been packed with away supporters.  During the first Rangers game of the season 7 guys in front of us were sitting drinking whisky out of a hipflask.  I signalled to a steward AND a policeman who were standing directly in front of them and pointed at the hipflask while one of them was drinking from it.  Both just looked at me, the steward shrugged his shoulders then continued to watch the game.  During a Dundee Utd game near the start of the season, when DU scored the row in front of us leapt to their feet and started with the hand gestures to their fellow supporters in the north stand.  Someone behind us yelled at them to remember which stand they were in.  The guy in front of us thought that it was me and my partner that had shouted at him and threatened to "deck" us right there and then.  At this point it was nearly the end of the game and I just wanted to go home.  I wrote a letter to Mr Savage the next day and I'm still to hear from anyone.

I've supported ICT since the merge and I hate the fact that I am made to feel threatened and intimidated in my home ground.  It pains me to say this, but I am seriously considering not renewing my tickets next year.   :007:

I must say although I was on one earlier I have to agree that this is shocking

Hate to say this but have you ever thought of moving seats,you don't have to leave, The club make good money from the hospitality package, I know its not nice when away supporters are sitting in front of you especially if they are winning  but they have to sit somewhere.

An old friend of mine in Glasgow sometimes gets hospitality tickets at Celtic park.He's green and white through and through,If I went, I too would be one of those bad fans who would be celebrating when ICT score against Celtic.

[CaleyD]

12th Man, did you actually think about that before you posted it?

Your saying that because someone is in a more "expensive" seat then they should be allowed to behave like animals and those nearby who don't like it should move - I know that money talks, but surely your not suggesting that because someone has been privileged enough to get a hospitality seat that they should not be subject to the same rules and regulations as everyone else?

[Onward and Upward]

I must agree, it shouldn't matter how much you are paying for your ticket, Home sections are home sections and away fans should not be allowed in. Someone made an excellent comparison earlier; If there were that many Away fans in Home section at Ibrox, Easter Road, Tynie etc there would be a riot.

It boils down to ineffective stewarding (Rock Steady Stewards receive two hours training, which basically states 'if anything happens, get your supervisor') and poor leadership from the Club Safety Officer (who remains in charge at TCS during a match, unlike every other ground in Scotland where the ground is turned over to the Police Match Commander).

Even if the Stewards were properly trained, they can't do anything to effect an ejection or enforce the ground regulations, as none of them hold SIA Licences, so any action they take would be illegal under the Private Security Industry Act.

This is an issue that MUST be resolved by the club, as the number of fans on here that are saying they feel intimidated in their own stands is ridiculous!  :33: :018:

[12th Man]

12th Man, did you actually think about that before you posted it?

Your saying that because someone is in a more "expensive" seat then they should be allowed to behave like animals and those nearby who don't like it should move - I know that money talks, but surely your not suggesting that because someone has been privileged enough to get a hospitality seat that they should not be subject to the same rules and regulations as everyone else?

Animals, I think you are trying to exaggerate things slightly, If I didn't like the people I was sitting amongst at every home game then I too would move.

Theres a difference between sitting in amongst home fans and supporting the opposite team and having lunch and a few drinks and watching the match in the seats ALLOCATED BY THE CLUB

But hey everyones entitled to an opinion.

[CaleyD]

12th Man, did you actually think about that before you posted it?

Your saying that because someone is in a more "expensive" seat then they should be allowed to behave like animals and those nearby who don't like it should move - I know that money talks, but surely your not suggesting that because someone has been privileged enough to get a hospitality seat that they should not be subject to the same rules and regulations as everyone else?

Animals, I think you are trying to exaggerate things slightly, If I didn't like the people I was sitting amongst at every home game then I too would move.

Theres a difference between sitting in amongst home fans and supporting the opposite team and having lunch and a few drinks and watching the match in the seats ALLOCATED BY THE CLUB

But hey everyones entitled to an opinion.

How would you describe people who make hand gestures towards others and dish out verbal abuse and threats of violence?

[12th Man]

12th Man, did you actually think about that before you posted it?

Your saying that because someone is in a more "expensive" seat then they should be allowed to behave like animals and those nearby who don't like it should move - I know that money talks, but surely your not suggesting that because someone has been privileged enough to get a hospitality seat that they should not be subject to the same rules and regulations as everyone else?

Animals, I think you are trying to exaggerate things slightly, If I didn't like the people I was sitting amongst at every home game then I too would move.

Theres a difference between sitting in amongst home fans and supporting the opposite team and having lunch and a few drinks and watching the match in the seats ALLOCATED BY THE CLUB

But hey everyones entitled to an opinion.

How would you describe people who make hand gestures towards others and dish out verbal abuse and threats of violence?

There is no way to excuse what you have just quoted as these type of people should be removed. What I am saying is that you should still be allowed to support your team.

On a more positive note the two incidents happened on the first and second home games of the season and no recent games have been quoted.

[Onward and Upward]

In reply to the above,  this happens at EVERY game involving the OF, also Aberdeen and Dundee Utd!!

I sit in the same area, with the hospitality seats in front of me and the problem is endemic.  Stewards and Police do nothing in this area!  The same complaints are made at EVERY match by those around me.

[FortressICT]

1- Caleys' fault for selling them the tickets etc

2- What were they doing wrong?nothing.making a bit of noise.they were never gonna do anything to caley fans at least they were making a noise.

3- You can't go in and lift every rangers fan for standing and even if that happened they would kick off and it wouldn't have been in control at all, it's best to let them stand.  Whereas when it's caley there's only like 10 or 11 people who pose no thrreat whilst standing so they can be told off etc but then they think they are mr big and try and kick off by giving abuse which then gets them chucked out.

It's really the stewards fault, police only go in when the stewards can't handle situations(which is every game something happens) and we are hired by Caley so it's really taking orders from the likes of Mike Smith or whoever is in contact with the stewards but its the stewards that aggrivate everything and take everything way to far.  So it's harsh having a go at the Police we are just taking orders from the people who are paying for us to be there - caley!

If the people didn't talk back to the stewards then nothing would ever need the police to come in at the home end.

But for people to expect every rangers fanwho stands up to be lifted is very poor and the 1's in the home end did nothing wrong.  there is no law against it.

[jamie ictfc]

ROSCOE FECK OFF

[chris123]

1- Caleys' fault for selling them the tickets etc

2- What were they doing wrong?nothing.making a bit of noise.they were never gonna do anything to caley fans at least they were making a noise.

3- You can't go in and lift every rangers fan for standing and even if that happened they would kick off and it wouldn't have been in control at all, it's best to let them stand.  Whereas when it's caley there's only like 10 or 11 people who pose no thrreat whilst standing so they can be told off etc but then they think they are mr big and try and kick off by giving abuse which then gets them chucked out.

It's really the stewards fault, police only go in when the stewards can't handle situations(which is every game something happens) and we are hired by Caley so it's really taking orders from the likes of Mike Smith or whoever is in contact with the stewards but its the stewards that aggrivate everything and take everything way to far.  So it's harsh having a go at the Police we are just taking orders from the people who are paying for us to be there - caley!

If the people didn't talk back to the stewards then nothing would ever need the police to come in at the home end.

But for people to expect every rangers fanwho stands up to be lifted is very poor and the 1's in the home end did nothing wrong.  there is no law against it.

:017:

[Guest TinCanFan]

1- Caleys' fault for selling them the tickets etc

How are they supposed to know who are and aren't ICT fans?

2- What were they doing wrong?

Eh? Sitting in the wrong end.

1- Caleys' fault for selling them the tickets etc

It's really the stewards fault

So who's fault is it then?

there is no law against it.

I'm not so sure about that.  I seem to remember a few years ago hearing that the SFA were going to/did bring it in though I may be wrong.

[Onward and Upward]

1) I'm pretty sure that Caley aren't mental enough to intentionally sell tickets for Home sections to Away fans, this would be a major issue with the Police as it would be a major flash point (as it is currently turning out to be) and would have serious connotations for crowd safety.

2) You have no idea what will kick off between opposing fans in the same section, hence EVERY ground in the UK attempts to segregate fans.  They may well have no intention of any aggressive action toward a home fan, however, banter can very quickly be taken out of context and what begins as innocent ribbing between fans can end up in a very nasty situation with innocent people getting hurt for no reason.

3) I agree that LARGE groups of away fans standing in the South Stand pose too much of a risk for Police and Stewards to attempt to get seated, they may well inflame the situation, however, I think most people are troubled by the inconsistent manner that Home and Away fans are treated.  If 50 away fans stand in the South Stand are standing, one attempt to get them seated is made, if they don't comply they're left to it and observed.  In the Home end they tend to be continually approached until such time as they sit back down. 

I REALLY don't agree about your comment regarding giving persons in authority abuse.  If a Steward can't take a bit of abuse on the chin and continue trying to defuse a conflict, then IMHO they need to look closely at what motivates them to be in a security role.  Security/Stewarding is NOT about enforcing your will on other people just becasue it's the rule, it should be about educating the public about the rules in order to ensure they agree that they should be complying (I agree however, that there are always certain people who just will not listen).

The public have every right to talk back to a Steward, as long as they are not being offensive/racist/abusive etc.

I'm sorry but your statement about there not being a law against it is just stupid.

This issue cannot be blamed solely on the Stewards.  All agencies involved in the matchday security operation at the ground (Police/Stewards/Safety Officer/Ticket Sales/Cheif Executive) are at fault and have to work together to resolve it.

Rant over, you may go about your business again!  :023:

[Scotty]

from the ICT supporters charter

ICT agree ... "To abide by the rules and ground regulations of football's Governing bodies regarding the allocation of tickets to visiting clubs."

I don't have a copy of the SPL Rules, and there is nothing that I can see in UEFA rules other than we are obliged to give the away team 5% of tickets, but the SPL Stadium regulations as posted on club sites says .....

"18. The Club reserves the right for its servants, stewards, and agents, and for members of the police forces to remove from the Stadium any person who does NOT COMPLY WITH STADIUM REGULATIONS AND WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS of The Scottish Football Association, the Scottish premier League, The Scottish Football League and/or, where applicable, the Regulations of the FIFA/UEFA Competitions or whose presence in the Stadium is or could reasonable be construed as constituting a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to other spectators."

Think there have been enough posts recently to suggest that away fans - or at least those who openly show they are away fans - are constituting both an annoyance and nuisance to other spectators ... so now its over to ICT to comply with their own customer charter.

[Kingsmills]

Hear hear.

[RiG]

I wonder if Rosscoe has a "big team". One that plays in blue and likes to sign "traditional folk songs" at games.....

[Onward and Upward]

The ball should definitely be in the clubs court.  Does anyone know if the supporters club are chasing this up?  :024:

[L_G]

I don't know what the Supporter's Club might be doing, but I did bring it up at the monthly meeting between the Supporter's Trust and the club. Unfortunately despite my request on here, I didn't have any specific complaints to take to them, just general comments.  For us to raise it more forcefully we needed more specific information and nobody decided to provide us with that.  It's one thing to come here mumping and moaning, and rightly so, but I asked for names and seat numbers, which would have been followed up by the Trust and the Club, but not one person got in touch.  :012:

The Supporter's Trust can and will take supporter's issues to the Football Club on your behalf, but fans need to take the issues to us in the first place.