Have we seen him play his last ever match for ICTFC? He was honking against Motherwell, and it remains unclear if his red card today was for foul and abusive language or for the tackle. If it was for the former, I wouldn't care if I never see him in an ICTFC shirt again.

Edited September 15, 201213 yr by Top Six Next Year

If he didn't go for it we'd be raging at him for not being committed enough. The poor guy couldn't win, it was a 50/50 he went for it, in the heat of the moment he mistimed his challenge and got sent off. He's suffering because of his earlier red this season imo, he'll have to watch himself now like Ian black does or like any other player that picks reds up. But we know he's not a dirty player.

Ian Black? Is that the same Ian Black who has only ever had one red card in his career.............69 yellows though. Info courtesy of Soccerbase

Yes but he built up a reputation as a 'dirty player' and referees looked out for him.

he's definatly had more than 1 red card in his career. I know for a fact he got one red card with us and 2 last season at hearts.

Edited September 19, 201213 yr by lukemackay

This seems to have turned into a passion v discipline debate to some extent. But the point is that at this level we should expect both. I don't think anybody here has a problem with meaty tackles and nobody is accusing OTJ of being in any way a dirty player, but players do need to know that when they commit themselves to that kind of challenge they are going to win the ball. Perhaps when players are bearing down on goal there may be justification for taking a risk - but not on the half way line under the ref's nose! OTJ was very late for the tackle and would have been better pulling out and keeping on running to help cover the developing attack.

We can analyse these tackles in slo mo till we are blue in the face and still we disagree whether any particular tackle should be red or yellow. The referee has to make an instant decision and that decision will be influenced by the aspect of chance of just where in the stride the tackler makes contact with the player with the ball. The fact is that going for this type of tackle is a risk and there are factors which are not in the control of the palyer making the tackle. Players need to make judgements of when to go for the tackles and when to redirect their passion and energies in responding to the situation in another way. I am just a bit worried that in responding to the need for passion some of our players are forgetting the need for judgement as well.

Right, I'm off the fence here. I think what's happening is that there is something of a seige mentality about this team, fostered by the "nobody likes us, they wish we weren't here" belief that the Manager and others put forward. Let's be fair, I think that's obvious from the central belters and this year it's just reinforced by the apathy from the stands.It's a great philosophy, in that it gets people together and makes sure that the team works as a team. That's much more evident this year than last. But there is a downside to this and it was evident on saturday. If one of the team is unlucky enough to be singled out (OTJ) and punished, the rest will pursue justice based on their idea of no one being on their side and that's why Richie could easily have joined OTJ on a red. It's a great mentality to have, it's a great team togetherness - it just needs applied more carefully and only the manager can do that.

He obviously never learned his lesson from his previous rashness. I disagree about you disagreeing. We can't allow this trend to continue at this rate. Whatever the reason for his mistimed/rash/clumsy/indiscipline etc/etc/etc it has to stop now.

I like the way he plays when he is in control of himself. He can be an asset to the side, but he is no use to anyone sitting out games because he is banned.

Dock a months wages.

Err, well there's no way you can legally dock someone's wages for doing their job even if you don't like the way they've done it. Only for gross misconduct eg refusing to play or train or seriously abusive behaviour.

The best thing about this thread is that it has distracted people from having the exact same red card/passion/recklessness debate regarding Foran.

Who's going to be next?

guess

I thought that it was simply becos he was frustrated that he couldnt get in to the game - I also suspect that he was frustrated that he was going to get hooked (or possibly had been warned at half time) - he loses out again - he momentarily loses the plot - and totally mistimes a tackle (it was'nt malicious but was dangerous because he ended up with studs showing and over the top). He knew what was coming straight away.You can tell a mile off that he isnt a dirty player but my beef is that he shouldnt have been on the park - full stop - on the back of his performances - and if his confidence was affected before then now ??

Hew went across the front of the player and the contact was shin to shin....no studs aimed at Fraser or even a hint of it.