Just watched the goals from our under 18s thrashing Partick Thistle 7-2.

After last season's league win at under 17 level, we look to have a great crop coming through.

As a small club, that's what we need, so credit to the coaches.

Let's hope they continue to develop and be one the backbone of a successful future squad.

Edited August 11, 20187 yr by Robert

I didn’t realise we won the under 17s league last year. Anyone know what teams were involved with that?

We have invested very heavily in the youth side of the club, and I imagine the plan is to a) have a first team made up of mostly local players  b) sell the most promising to pay for that investment.  Assuming that the cost of lower league players in the English game continues to increase it could be a very shrewd investment to have a large number of capable and promising youth players to be signed by the Premiership and League One teams (or above).

At the current level of investment the club should be looking at raising 500k - £1m per annum this way.  A lot depends on getting the U17s, U18s successful year on year and then standing out in the first team and catching the eye of teams like Aberdeen or Hibs or Celtic even and perhaps further afield. The Ryan Christie model.  

It is a huge achievement to win the U17 league and now continuing that into the U18s.  Here’s hoping they are knocking on the first team by 2020 and join the current group who will have become first teamers by then.

On 8/12/2018 at 9:25 AM, Glover said:

We have invested very heavily in the youth side of the club, and I imagine the plan is to a) have a first team made up of mostly local players  b) sell the most promising to pay for that investment.  Assuming that the cost of lower league players in the English game continues to increase it could be a very shrewd investment to have a large number of capable and promising youth players to be signed by the Premiership and League One teams (or above).

At the current level of investment the club should be looking at raising 500k - £1m per annum this way.  A lot depends on getting the U17s, U18s successful year on year and then standing out in the first team and catching the eye of teams like Aberdeen or Hibs or Celtic even and perhaps further afield. The Ryan Christie model.  

It is a huge achievement to win the U17 league and now continuing that into the U18s.  Here’s hoping they are knocking on the first team by 2020 and join the current group who will have become first teamers by then.

I'm not sure how possible that would be to sell them on to the English Lower Leagues or even Scottish leagues, think there's a ban on transfers under the age of 18. Don't know the rules off by heart, but I'm pretty sure its cos their family has to move with them or something along those lines. Think the only exception to this rule is if it's a local(ish) team, which would be Us, County, Elgin or several of the Highland League teams, so they're more or less stuck with us until they reach the age where they can be legally transferred further afield.

On 8/12/2018 at 9:25 AM, Glover said:

We have invested very heavily in the youth side of the club, and I imagine the plan is to a) have a first team made up of mostly local players  b) sell the most promising to pay for that investment.  Assuming that the cost of lower league players in the English game continues to increase it could be a very shrewd investment to have a large number of capable and promising youth players to be signed by the Premiership and League One teams (or above).

At the current level of investment the club should be looking at raising 500k - £1m per annum this way.  A lot depends on getting the U17s, U18s successful year on year and then standing out in the first team and catching the eye of teams like Aberdeen or Hibs or Celtic even and perhaps further afield. The Ryan Christie model.  

It is a huge achievement to win the U17 league and now continuing that into the U18s.  Here’s hoping they are knocking on the first team by 2020 and join the current group who will have become first teamers by then.

Remind me again how much we got for Christie?

Not a lot. Certainly less than it costs to run Project Brave for a year (or to be more precise - the academy).  I am absolutely behind the structure to bring players from the North through - Donald Alex Morrison for one - a Lewisman - that’s definitely piqued my interest.  The odds though of having a Premiership team on this route is unlikely, but would be wonderful.  The trade-off is to have a mid-table Championship team with a strong local contingent in the first team, or a Premiership team with ‘inspired purchases’ a la Marsella.  The vision of course is to have local players reach the Premiership - and why not!  Perhaps though we might be waiting more than two seasons for it.

Glover - it astonishes me that you actually think that ICT spend anywhere near the half a million that we received for Christie on an annual basis!

As a parent who previously had a talented player in the ICT youth department(now in Uni) I made it my business to find out what the club commits to the youth structure year on year and after grants, sponsorship etc. it is around the £50,000 mark. Hence Christie's transfer fee, all be it less than we should have agreed, would pay for our youth spend for a decade.

 

 

 

Charlie Christie's vision of a first team to be largely made up of youth (a quota of a 'minimum of five')  is what it is and will be what it will be.   But in terms of spend, yes.  Someone other than the club is paying the Head of Youth, the Academy Director, the Head of Academy Operations, the 11 on prof contracts  and the coaches, auxiliary staff and the operational  costs over the year for six youth teams (I won't add in allocated costs of the support it gets from first team - coaches, admin, auxiliary etc). The Chairman said,  of the U17 success it '...is a demonstration of our huge commitment to youth development'.  

 If Livingston have just last week followed Falkirk in abandoning its participation in Project Brave because of the financial commitment then I doubt they'd have done that if it was only a 50k loss.  In terms of direct commitment, ok it's 100k-ish spend give or take, but clubs are actually in for much more than that and thats why Livi, Falkirk  (eventually others)  realised the commitment is 200k + at Progressive level a year and without any hope of getting to Elite (needing a full-time Sports Scientist, Head Of Recruitment, Performance Analyst, Head of Children’s Programme, and home and away fixtures).  

Edited August 17, 20187 yr by Glover
100k, deleted last para

Apologies for double posting:  I would like to say to give young football players in the North of Scotland the fullest opportunity I applaud and am excited about.  Not only that, the U17s achieved a huge amount and it is a real boon for the Highlands and ICT in general.  We have an U18s now that are on the cusp and if they can break into the first team in good numbers I feel that will be the key to unlocking a resurgence in the support.  I will keep Project Brave comments for the UK football section, as this thread is rightly discussing ICT having the best U18 squad about ?

Edited August 17, 20187 yr by Glover

From memory, it has been suggested at previous AGMs that the cost of the clubs Youth Setup was around 10% of turnover....in the last couple of years in the premiership that would have put it at about £350k to £400k.  Less than the (rumoured) fee we got for Christie.....a lot less if/when Celtic sell him and there's a kick back from that.

As with many things, it's not the what's being done that is cause for concern, its the "how".  We got rid of Big Dunc when relegated because we couldn't afford a development coach, but we've now brought in 3 coaches to do the job he was doing.

It should be noted that the success with the youths is not a new thing, it is not the result of anything that's been done by the current board or any of the 3 new coaches who were brought in.  Those success came from how things were running previously and under the very capable hand of Fiona, Ronnie and the coaches the oversaw (Charlie Christie has always been little more than a public face for PR purposes, with very little hands on coaching).

I had limited involvement with Project Brave stuff when at the club, but my understanding was that it would only increase the costs if we wanted to hit Elite Level....which we haven't.  Any additional cost is entirely of our own making.  I'm not against additional investment in the area, but money could have been spent giving additional support to what was there (and working) instead of creating more jobs for the boys!

The manner in which Duncan Shearer was dismissed was appalling and a PR disaster but may well have been the right decision.

Our youth system has only produced half a dozen players who have become first team regulars in all the years we have existed and only one to be sold for a significant sum.

I think we have to give the new development team at the club at least another two seasons to see if they can do any better before passing judgement.

58 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

The manner in which Duncan Shearer was dismissed was appalling and a PR disaster but may well have been the right decision.

Our youth system has only produced half a dozen players who have become first team regulars in all the years we have existed and only one to be sold for a significant sum.

I think we have to give the new development team at the club at least another two seasons to see if they can do any better before passing judgement.

I wasn't passing judgment, I was highlighting that the current crop coming through are the product of a system that has been in place for a number of years and not a result of anything that has happened or been in place more recently.

As you quite rightly point out, the time to judge the current setup will be in the future, although I suspect a couple more seasons is generous as those coming through for the next 4 to 6 years will still be inherited from the previous system.

Some credit has to be given to Robbo for choosing youth players, but let's not forget that it will be largely due to necessity....again, time will tell on whether or not it's a setup that delivers the promised push for a return to the Premiership.

8 hours ago, CaleyD said:

From memory, it has been suggested at previous AGMs that the cost of the clubs Youth Setup was around 10% of turnover....in the last couple of years in the premiership that would have put it at about £350k to £400k.  Less than the (rumoured) fee we got for Christie.....a lot less if/when Celtic sell him and there's a kick back from that.

As with many things, it's not the what's being done that is cause for concern, its the "how".  We got rid of Big Dunc when relegated because we couldn't afford a development coach, but we've now brought in 3 coaches to do the job he was doing.

It should be noted that the success with the youths is not a new thing, it is not the result of anything that's been done by the current board or any of the 3 new coaches who were brought in.  Those success came from how things were running previously and under the very capable hand of Fiona, Ronnie and the coaches the oversaw (Charlie Christie has always been little more than a public face for PR purposes, with very little hands on coaching).

I had limited involvement with Project Brave stuff when at the club, but my understanding was that it would only increase the costs if we wanted to hit Elite Level....which we haven't.  Any additional cost is entirely of our own making.  I'm not against additional investment in the area, but money could have been spent giving additional support to what was there (and working) instead of creating more jobs for the boys!

Not sure what costs you believe are of our own making?

Project Brave even at the current level has very specific requirements including specified numbers of coaches for each each group. It has also resulted in having to split Roles as certain people cannot do other roles.

This is beyond the control of the club.

That said there are a significant amount of things wrong which are being papered over and there is quite a bit of bemusement at decisions being taken.

Very diplomatically put re CC being a figurehead. Many would be a bit more blunt.

Project Brave requires different things at different levels...the higher the level, the more people you need in different positions full time/part time etc.  We were originally shooting for Elite Level, we didn't make Elite Level, but we have put things in place which would have only been required at Elite Level....there was also the option for us to split resource/cost with Ross County on some things, but I believe that hasn't happened.

My understanding was that, with the additional funding that comes from the SFA for Project Brave, then being at Progressive Level would have cost clubs already operating at similar level previously (which we were) no more than it had been previously.

If that's not the case, then it's because we have brought in personnel (and associated costs) that aren't required by Project Brave at Progressive Level.  i.e Cost of our own making. 

Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing to have done, but it doesn't fit with other decisions/communication.  We've performed well at Youth level for as long as I can remember, the problem has always been bridging the gap in bringing these players through to the first team....on that basis, it doesn't make sense not to have entered the Reserve League which fills that gap.  We're being told everything is happening to push for promotion and a return to the Premiership....but we're channeling funds away from the first team to bring in staff that aren't compulsory and/or contributing to that aim (and not just additional coaches).

As you say, there are significant issues that are being papered over....and, IMO, Project Brave is being used to assist with that.

That's no reflection on the staff or the work they are doing.  I'm in awe of what our Youth Department has achieved over they years with the resources available.  Ok, so we might not have had high numbers coming through to the first team (certainly not since we made it to the Premiership), but just take a look at how many go on to have decent careers at some level in the professional game and we are batting above average.