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Great post from Caleytillidie. The thing is, rules is rules and where they are silly rules you need to apply a bit of commonsense in judging how far you can go in breaking the rules. Where stewards are inflexible, rude and aggressive, then it is best to sit down and watch the game. Goading them and getting thrown out is not clever. Having said that there have clearly been times where the behaviour of the stewards is worse than that of the fans they are dealing with and if they are out of order it is perfectly legitimate to complain. But for me, the problem is not so much the stewards but the rules they are required to enforce. Requiring fans to sit is a nonsense. We are left with the legacy of a massive over-reaction to the dreadful tragedy at Hillsborough which, in itself, was caused by a set of circumstances which were completely avoidable. The physical presence of seats prevents the kind of crowd surges which were common in the "good old days" but these could easily have been controlled by more barriers on the terraces and by sectioning off areas of terracing and controlling numbers in those areas. And in reality, the crowd surges rarely caused injury beyond minor scalding from a cup of spilled Bovril. With seats in place, standing does not represent a risk and therefore there is no good reason why people should not stand provided that they are not standing in front of others who wish to sit. If fans at the back wish to stand or jump up and down then they should be allowed to do so. As far as safety is concerned, the seating actually introduces greater risk in my view. Everyone is now channelled into often steep stair cases in order to exit the grounds and one person tripping could cause a significant incident. With the old terracing you descended on a wider front. The terraces had other advantages. Those who wanted to sing could group together far more easily with the result that there was better atmosphere in the grounds. It was also more social as you could move around to speak with mates you might have spotted in the crowd. And the stewards? What stewards? There was no need for stewards on the terracing because there were no silly rules to enforce. Their role was simply to stop folk getting on to the pitch If we want to get the soul back into British football it is time to put Hillsborough well and trully in the past and apply a bit of common sense at last. Bring back the terracing and bring it back soon whilst I am still physically capable of standing for 90 minutes.

What would this achieve? i go to the games to follow and cheer on caley, bad stewarding has nothing to do with following my team.

So our long hold onto 5th position came to an end tonight, as Motherwell beat Aberdeen. Having not won in 11, im rather surprised we have held onto it for so long, although other teams have games in hand. Could get a whole lot worse on Saturday if we are beaten by the boys from Perth, and Dundee Utd get a win. Heres to getting back to winning ways on Saturday and climbing back up the league before falling down. Just hope injuries and suspensions give us better options for it

Yep. Basically if we took hundreds more fans who were the sort of tinky, low-life scumbags the Old Firm drag around Scotland in their wake then we could do what we want. As we have a relatively small, harmless support dickhead stewards rip the pish out of us.

He was a cracking player that always gave his all. Defensively he was the most solid left back we've ever had and if he'd been selected ahead of Zadi we would have never been relegated. All the best to him.

He was a terrific player for ICT on our march up the leagues. Wish him all the best on what he decides to do next

Folks, thanks for all of the information and support on this one. The information has been forwarded to Brian Caldwell at St. Mirren, who has been courteous, open and helpful thus far. There are better things for us all to write about than stewards and teenagers I'm sure. I heartily agree with those who are counselling moderation from our supporters in this thread, but the real issue for me was that someone was kicked and manhandled and that steps beyond acceptability in any role. If a supporter had physically assaulted a steward, I would expect there to be consequences, and the same should apply to them. As for goading the stewards, I have tried to impress that it's a sure fire way to trouble, and I hope that behaviour from my boy at any rate will be better in future. However, these people are employed to ensure public safety in their role, and should not do anything to undermine that. So fair play to St. Mirren. They have promised to inform me of any outcome of their investigation and I will post details when this occurs. Until then, could I ask that we don't personalise what happened on this forum. Thanks, I'll see you all at Easter Road.

Great Post Sir and I agree with you in its entirety so you have been green dotted Can't help but think i'd be looking at a serious amount of red if it had been my post though, but thats not the issue All seater stadia are here to stay within top flight football in the UK and being a fan who endured outdated and dangerous grounds in the 80's and early 90's i welcome watching my football in modern safer environments and if that means sitting for the majority of the game well so be it One thing I will say though is that every time this sort of thread raises its head, IHE appears to have been ejected or in his words close to have been ejected Finally you have to remember that anyone who is employed as a steward is more than likely to be of extremely low intellect and probably more so coming from Paisley dougal

"you're well g@y but you're quite funny"

The problem on Saturday was indeed the fact they were OTT. Being told to sit down as we score is a new record. We were then told you can stand up if there is something happening in the game, so sometimes it's ok and sometimes it's not. We then get told the usual that it only happens as there is so few there. If it was the in firm our other larger supports they wouldn't do anything. They dont't help themsleves with these statements or by allowing us to stand for 90 minutes at the game back in September. At the end of that game we were getting photo's taken with the stewards as they had been first class. As for the major flash point, yes said ICT fan is never perfect, hell neither am I, but at the time of the incident,he was siting down and had to be dragged out off his seat by the steward ( P McNeil, PMS Events). This steward was out of control and had forgotten all his training. His manager also had lost control off him and should have had him put to another stand instead of allowing him to come back in to try and control things! He tried to refuse to give me his SIA number but as this is a breach in the regulation I was able to get this and shall be making a complaint to them also. We all know that standing is a SPl guidline, we just want it to be the same for everyone. Until the day everyone is treated the same, there will be problems. Just allow standing back, shimples!

Brave post. Your correct. I've never been chucked out, and never will. I can manage it. One steward, 'touches' (snigger) one fan. Everyone goes on about what the steward did wrong. Why is everyone kidding themselves? Your supposed to sit. That's the rules. The steward was quite clearly a mouth breather, you could tell because he's fat and wearing an orange jacket with 'Event Security' on the back. Do what you want, like anything you want, but please face up to the consequences of your actions. When I drink before a game, I go, knowing that no matter how much I don't like the rule, that I can get turned away at the gate, with no refund, for being under the influence. Stewards are diks, doormen are diks, call centers are a ***** way to conduct business, immigration is out of hand, money is king, burds hate me, nothing is built to last these days, everything is over priced, we're all under paid, my granny is dead, your granny is dead, Jade Goodie is dead, R & B is here to stay, Israel is too, life is unfair, Man U always win, Jez Clarkson is famous, and Odhiambo is never going to try. These are all facts of life, that we know about, failure to accept these facts will result in an uphill battle throughout life.

Im probably going to get absolute pelters for this but here goes. In my opinion this subject is getting rather tiresome. I have travelled to the majority of away games this season and love nothing more than following my team all over the country. I enjoy everthing about it. The trip down and back on the train, pre match drinks and getting the craic with my mates. But primarily im there to watch the football and support my team. Thats what it is all about. We are all down there to watch the game of football. Now I totally agree with everyone else that some of the stewarding is ridiculous and heavy-handed but at some point everyone is going to have to stop all the nonense and abide by their rules. People got chucked out at the first away game of the season at tannadice and since then it has been happening on a weekly basis. There has been occasions where I too have argued with stewards over their dealings with some fans but there have been many instances where I have fully agreed with Stewards throwing certain fans out. A lot of our fans, particularly the young fans, seem to just be there to start something off with stewards. I've stood at a lot of games aswell but if your told to sit down a couple of times then your just going to have to do what they say. Its not like they are going to change their minds. We are all there to watch the game, not to get chucked out. But everyone cant seem to understand that. The youngsters seem to take great delight in arguing, goading and baiting the stewards. Its no wonder that they are getting chucked out and its embarassing that its happening every away game. Its even more embarassing that these people who have spent a fortune travelling to the game are only getting to see a part of the game when all they had to do was shut their mouths and just get on with the fact that the stewards are arseholes and not going to change their minds. You can slag off the stewards all you like but at some point fans are going to have to change the way they act. Yesterday was a prime example. Granted the steward was way out of line with what he did, but what is he supposed to do when he was constantly getting abuse from them all. Everyone has their breaking point and I would challenge everyone of you to put yourself in his shoes and not react the way he did. I think everyone knows that the boy that it happened to has a fair mouth on him and there has been many occassions where he has been out of order with some of the abuse he has given. He was told many times to sit down but never once did. Why not just shut up, sit down and watch the game like he came to do? Now I know that I'm now going to get dogs abuse for all this but this can't keep happening every week. Stewarding around the country needs changed and they do spoil an enjoyable day out but our fans are also going to have to change if they want this situation to get any better.

Runrig suck......why do so many people think we have to add to the Teuchter sterotype already attached to us, by playing crap like Runrig and Highland Cathedral? We need proper music, that gets the crowd going...not send them to sleep

The Section G hardcore will be home from school soon , I'd get my tin hat now if I were you AndyM

After yet another stewarding debacle, does anyone feel strongly enough to boycott the Hibs game? I think we all have a rough idea as to what'll happen two weeks on Saturday.

This is the main problem, we're not allowed to stand. Does it not go back to the Taylor report and Hillsborough? I think it's like our laws on Marley's special herb where, depending on the officer who catches you (and what music their into), you will get treated differently, even though it's against the rules all the same. My mate told me this, I wouldn't know for sure though..... As I've pointed out numerous times, "you must sit" is an SPL directive, not law. You just have to go to Murrayfield for a Rugby Match or to a stadium concert to see thousands of people standing without issue and you don't see people there being harassed and huckled out of the ground by the stewards. The law states that any stadium with a capacity greater than 10,000 should be all seated and that anyone admitted to the stadium must receive a ticket for an allocated seat, it says nothing about you having to remain seated. The Taylor Report recommended all seater stadiums as a means of controlling numbers in stadiums and preventing crowd rushes/surges. It was not designed to stop people from enjoying the game. The problem is, getting into a tussle with the Stewards is not going to change anything. It's the SPL that need to alter or scrap their "You must sit" policies. Clubs are quick to hide behind the "SPL Rules, Sorry" line, but ultimately they are the ones with the power to change/scrap the SPL rules...not the stewards or police. It is the clubs that we should be putting pressure on to have things changed, not just at their own grounds but across the entire league. Boycotting games is pointless unless you first make a proper case for what you want and why you are doing it, and even then, you have to make sure you are boycotting clubs who are not in support of your proposals. It could easily be that whilst we may not have the same level of issue with our own stewards, the club itself supports the SPL rules on sitting down...whilst St Mirren could be against the SPL rules on sitting but have a match commander who applies them to the letter. I think people have a fair point about how they are treated etc, but I also find it a bit cringworthy when I see/hear how they handle themselves when they get in to a situation. Teenagers who are pissed up to the eyeballs getting into the face of Stewards and, on occasion, deliberately setting out to wind them up doesn't do anyone any favours and gives them an easy excuse to dismiss any complaint. What's more, when it's the same people who seem to be in the thick of it time and again then, rightly or wrongly, you get yourself the label of being a troublemaker and again, give them an easy excuse to dismiss any complaint. Not saying fans have to accept the situation, but they do need to be a bit smarter in how they handle things.

IMO he was never terrific. Decent player, good servant etc, but at no stage was he ever one of our best players, even in the lower leagues. It's just a pity he never fulfilled the potential he showed in his first few years. After becoming a Canada regular at quite a young age, his career peaked when he won the Gold Cup and beat Celtic in 2000. He perhaps lost his way after that and didn't seem to improve much. Good luck to him.