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I have a few thoughts after reading this thread. Firstly, it should be acknowledged that none of this is the fault of Gary Warren, a club stalwart for six years and club captain for the last three. In January 2016 (when Yogi was manager, in fact) he was offered a three and a half year contract on (presumably) very good terms, which apparently also contains an appearance fee. He is of course completely within his rights to stand his ground and demand the club honour it. None of us would do anything different in our own walks of life. Even if Warren was willing to leave - because he wants to play regularly, for example - his options are limited somewhat. There is only one other full-time club within 100 miles, so if they aren't interested he either has to move elsewhere (either separating himself from his family or uprooting them) or go part-time (not that his options there are good either unless Elgin fancied him, especially since Brora aren't paying crazy money anymore). And whilst he is a qualified teacher, i imagine he cannot just step back into that role overnight. He may be one of our highest paid players, but a lot of folk don't seem to realize that the wages of SPFL Premiership players (outside the top 5 clubs are so) are not exactly extortionate, especially given that anyone on much more than £1k/week then ends up on a higher tax band. His football career will not have set him up for life, and the contract he is currently on will be his last one of any significance as a professional footballer. I also wonder whether, given he has passed his UEFA A licence, whether his intention was to follow Foran into the coaching setup and that was a reason behind being given such a contract. If that was the case, clearly that door is not open under Robbo. That being said, he is on an onerous contract. Out of those left over from relegation, only he and Polworth (and Fon Williams of course) are still on a contract signed before the drop (Tremarco and McKay have signed new contracts since). And unfortunately his play has declined sharply in the last two seasons; he struggled badly in our relegation season and in the first half of 2017/18, though his form certainly improved in the run-in. McKay and Donaldson are ahead of him in the pecking order though, which means that if he is one of the highest paid players at the club he is not good value for money at all. Worse, his 'appearance fee' means that he costs us less if he sits on the bench or in the stand. If it is true that we could get in three players for his wage - and it may well be - then it is a no-brainer for Robbo to try and punt him, because in such a tight league having those players could make a very significant difference to our promotion prospects. If even one of those three proves more of an asset than Warren is then it will have been worth it. I do sympathise with the manager here - neither he nor the current board were involved with what looks with hindsight to be a terrible contract to give to a player who was already 31; you don't see teams like St. Johnstone offering more than two years at a time to their senior players, and for good reason. His comments to the press appear to be a crass attempt into shaming Warren into leaving by giving people the impression that he is a burden, and I am very uncomfortable with them; they are reminiscent of the way we treated David Raven a year ago. But clearly Robbo had already had the conversation privately with Warren at the end of the season and feels that Warren is not making sufficient effort to find a new club, so he has decided to force the issue. What happens next? I have no idea. The nuclear option would be to freeze him out in preseason, but it would be a shame if it came to that. As stated above, Warren doesn't really have much in the way of alternatives other than standing his ground. It's difficult to see how this plays out in a way that suits everyone. But it does appear that we will be weaker if Warren stays than if he goes.

A very interesting and informative post hislopsoffsideagain. Both Gary and Carl signed their contracts at 31, the former for 3 years and the latter for two. They will both be 34 when they finish their contracts. Regardless of what wage it is, there is no chance he will get a two year deal, or a one year deal on noticeably better terms thus there is no rational reason to leave so he will stay, under a cloud, and reminisce during his seventh and last season for the club on the 220-odd appearances he made and maybe rue that he won't be able to move up from 6th to 4th in all-time appearances for the club because they wanted three new players or a CEO or whatever else the money was earmarked for. We should, by rights, be seeing Gary off at the end of the season, even as a sub in the final home game, or at the end of the game if it's close in a meaningful way. Not sure how much feels that will have. I disagree with the 'too sentimental/it's business' line. Football is complete sentiment - emotion - as anyone in the ground can see (to varying degrees, granted). If it's a business, our ROI is not in money, but emotion. Gary is no volunteer, he was paid for the work he did. He still had work to do. The only players above him in terms of appearances were which 5? I cannot readily support the board and the manager over their issue with Gary. Gary's wage, whatever we assume it is, was ok last season and thus not a major issue, else it would have been dealt with sooner. It is a ruthless opportunistic gamble to cut costs based on a surplus of stock and short dates akin to a toffee yoghurt in the co-op. I can see why people support it, we have become content with austerity and conditioned to such practices, to see a service in pounds and pence saved, and believe that if we keep cutting costs we'll become successful, as if more negativity will turn into happiness. As with the Council, as with schools, as with healthcare, the cuts are made on frontline services, but you'll always see funding for back-end positions. Football at this level is much less a business and much more a public service. Like schools, like hospitals, it's raison d'être is not to make money for shareholders but to provide a service. I'm stretching now to compare Gary to a nurse, but better that than regard him as disposable, like the toffee yoghurt at 10pm.

Because we CANT AFFORD Storey , same as we cant afford Tansey or Draper. Fairly simple.

what is it with always looking backwards? Robbo has actually had time to look at players that are needed this year instead of a rush job

Greg Tansey was garbage during his first spell with us, was really good for a season and a half and then went back to being garbage after that Aberdeen saga. He was absolutely dreadful when he eventually did sign for Aberdeen and would certainly be looking for Premiership wages. There’s absolutely no chance of him coming back and even if there was a chance, I would pass on him.

He is well within his rights to sit and see out his contract which is legally binding and was agreed by the club. He has no obligation to look for another club or walk away. This is going to be another embarrassment same as Raven last season who was cast out then brought back and OFW who was in and out like the hokey-cokey. For a club that is known to struggle with recruitment of established players or those experienced from elsewhere in Scotland doing such business in public will not go un-noticed. Refresh is acceptable, as is removing 'deadwoood' and under-achievers but it all has to be done the right way. If the club want GW out then pay off his contract or reach a settlement mutually agreeable, otherwise have the discussions behind closed doors and keep it that way - with those who are brave enough to make these calls need to be aware that if GW stays they need to get back to the table and maximise what he can bring to the club in whatever capacity can be accommodated and agreed.

I renewed yesterday...can't go to every game (as I work 2 out of 3 Saturdays), but it's my way of supporting the club, even when I can't go

He did plenty in the first half of the season, but lost out as Robbo tried different combinations, particularly once Austin got himself fit, struck me as being the sort of player who'd get in just the right positions to score simple goals, and seemed a hard worker. Why do we write someone off for a because a loss of form/managers selection choice, but not consider the previous good form. Bell is someone who could benefit from strength training in the gym and building up stamina levels , and building on his experience...there is definitely a decent player there.

A footballing decision, a decision based on maximising advantage in the game of football, it could be argued, would value and utilise Gary, our most experienced, longest serving player, captain and qualified coach to lead what is a very young team. He is already quite the future coach apparently - UEFA A licence and qualified PE teacher ( knows something about educating young players). A footballing decision would look at the dressing room, morale, harmony, stability, and leadership from having Gary there. How many times are we told about unity in football teams? Unless Gary is a deeply dislikeable person and disruptive, in which case... Not to mention he played more than 25 times last season and is also still a player in his own right, and the duo preferred are no less susceptible to injury or loss of form because of last season’s late run. I would call it a business decision. A bird in the hand is worth three in the bush. This is like the NHS bus - we dont know how the money saved will be actually used and whether it would even be a saving in a cost-benefit analysis. All the speculation of Gary leaving is moot anyway. What club is willing to give an ‘unwanted’ 34-year-old Scottish Championship defender a one year contract, a contract that would entice him away from his home for the last 7 years, a contract that would need to be significantly better than what he already possesses? What would it take for any of us to leave our jobs, or earlier than our existing contract, and also move home too? There is no land of milk and honey for Gary except at ICT for the next year and it was wishful thinking on the club’s behalf to think so - I can see why these mystical ‘three young dynamic players’ would be a result, absolutely, but it was a business decision to forego inspiration, harmony, leadership and a player on the very, very remote chance a club will come in and take Gary and it was that trade-off I have issue with. Had there been a club like Gretna trying to steamroll through the lower divisions - potentially, but there’s not. I think Carl should be worried if a young player in his position pops up soon. Perhaps ‘legends’ will become a hushed word at ICT - don’t deserve legends if the end is to try and shaft them. I don’t want a club fashioned in the Mr Burns mould, perhaps I’m just sentimental.

i would like to see Gary Warren here next season

Can we please, please, PLEASE stop obsessing over former players? This constant looking backwards is embarrassing.

Tansey? Osman? Storey? Do you just like the idea of a team full of expensive, unfit has beens? Trafford was a great player for us when he had to step in, and could contribute so much more this season. Storey was good when he was here, but only relative to the utter nonentities that we had upfront prior to him arriving. He was the type of player that very quickly settled into the lifestyle and started to show less and less interest and willingness to win the ball. What makes you think he'd be any better the 2nd time around? Same with Tansey, he goes to Aberdeen.... Gets nowhere, achieves very little, is not match fit and is now unsurprisingly surplus to requirement. So what, we pay what would be a fortune to us to take him back here so he can try and recapture some of his previous form. Would the drive be there, no..... Would the enthusiasm be there, no.... Would it be value for money, no. I'm quite excited at the current squad we've got, and think robbo and his coaches will get the best out of them starting with a good preseason

Tansey! I could do with a pint of what your on tonight

Bell had a very good start I thought, and he scored 7 goals up to the New Year and he was getting a fair number of plaudits from posters on here (he was one of the bright spots in a poor start)....sure, he went off the boil a bit, but he'll only be 22 in July and has plenty of development to go, surely we don't write someone off for a temporary loss of form, when the overall signs are good

Me too - I think he still has a lot to offer & not just as a player...he'd be a great coach, as someone who has had to work hard to get to where he's at now.

Sorry but to me this IS a footballing decision and a very decent offer (given our current plight) which Gary can accept or otherwise. Potentially for Gary it could be an opportunity to earn more than he could in Sneck OR another consideration would be to stay and look at his future career options - What did he do at University ?

Each transfer should be assessed on a player by player basis, whether they've played for us before or not.. As for Tansey, yes, he was a great player - sometimes. He coasted for most of our relegation season....not 100% sure I'd want him back, wasn't very impressed with what he said immediately after our last Premier league game when we went down.....

No Millions involved in Who wants to be a Millionaire, its 1 million, the clues in the title.

People always hark back to former players because we are fans, not scouts. Most normal people don't have the time or inclination to compile in depth knowledge of available players within our budget range.

Definetly! Last year, I think the priority was to get a team - any team - onto the park. I really wasn't suprised by our terrible start. I'd like to think, with a fairly settled squad & a couple of cost effective additions, along with some Youth players (Daniel Mackay has certainly shown talent already), that the way we finished last season will be more indicative of where we're at, rather than the start! Most of Robbo's signings have been effective & the ones that haven't been, are away.

Greg Tansey would be a great signing for us. We offered Kyle Hutton a deal to play central midfield, it's obvious that Tansey is a better player than him, he's probably a better player than Trafford as well. There isn't a team in the Championship who would turn him down. We won't be signing him as we can't afford him. The P&J reported that he doesn't want to play in the Championship either.

Marley Watkins now that was a player eh! Key to our season could be keeping Austin fit if we don't bring in another half decent striker! Can't see Bell or wee Mackay getting 15-20 goals tbh!

That's a new Away top bought, along with a season ticket renewal....

Davie - I would like to make a donation on behalf of CTO but I use a specific account for my personal online activities. This account does not have Visa or any UK valid debit card attached to it so I cannot use the donation page. I can send to you directly as an EFT from the account or I can pay you via Paypal and have the funds come straight out of my personal account. Let me know.

Judging by that, we are playing 8 times, on five different dates. One of the teams has been spelled Kieth twice ?

This debate reminds me of the divided reaction to the departure of Grant Munro. Both stalwarts during a successful era, both still decent players but past their peak. Ironically, Munro leaving paved the way for Gary Warren to start his ICT career. Surely a lesson to be learned. We have 2 talented young center halves on our books who formed a solid partnership this season. 10 years from now we'll be debating how 'shoddy' it is that club legend Brad McKay isn't being offered a new contract!

I don't think any of them could be considered unfit has beens would defo improve our squad if we could get any of them ! Trafford jury's defo out on him would rather Tansey any day dunno what finances would be involved surely not a fortune can't imagine there's gonna be a stampede for there signatures! Tbh tho where was the drive from our current players till the end of the season when it was to late! Fingers crossed we keep up the end of season performances should be in the mix even without 3 "superstars" I mentioned lol

So yet another pre-season playing against pure diddies and therefore not preparing sufficiently enough for the season ahead I’m not saying we should have glamour friendlies but a little imagination from those that claim to be the guardians of this club is needed We deserve better Dougal

If a former player was willing to return specially if he's better than what wev currently got then why not an obsession in these threads with people dissing former players!

You no the budget then I take it! Surely this new board didn't come in with no money

Cut throAt this division if you can get someone in who'll likely get your more goals on a similar wage do it Bell had plenty chances to prove his worth i don't think he done enough tbh how long do you give someone? Same goes for Trafford I'd have Osman Lawless or Tansey again over him but he's on a longer contract ain't he!