http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20997587

 

The bit I dont understand

 

 

If the proposed changes are voted through, the winners of the new second tier stand to earn £387,000.

 

 

How do they determine the winners of the second tier if the top four play off with the bottom four of first tier?

I have to kind of agree with Starchief here. Green has put forward a proposal. Whether its worse or better than the others remains to be seen but I see no reason why his cant be looked at. The proposal does nothing to help Rangers. They will still take the same time to climb the leagues. As for the finances I cant see why, if he had a vote, he'd be against the sharing of the wealth a bit better. After all he stands to gain by the monies going down through the leagues.

 

Please also note here that the SPL are throwing their weight with their own proposal. They have ignored the proposal that came from the SFL and instead thrown their own on the table and demanded the SFL follow this track. Somewhere in all that there's a bit of bribery and blackmail and nothing for the fans to savour. IMO their quest for change to suit their own ends will destroy the game in this country.

15 people got round a table to look at both proposals.  The majority of them were from the SFL and the consensus from that meeting was that the SPL proposal was the one with most potential for success....with some tweaks.

 

As I understand it, the merging if the league associations was also part of the original SPL plan...which was basically that they would the 12-12 and leave the rest for the SFL to administer on their own.

 

You say that the quest for change will destroy the game....perhaps....but let's not forget that it is the fans who have been shouting loudest for change and not so long ago it was an "anything except what we have" demand that was being laid down.  I've already said in this thread why alternatives would not see the light of day (under the current setup) and I stand by that.

 

As for the 14-14-14, some of those who are now claiming this as the way forward were saying in their last breath that there was insufficient quality teams to support a 12-12, but we are now to believe that there's sufficient to support a 14-14!!!  They've argued about the finances being insufficient to support 24 teams, but now want to increase that to 28!!!

 

I sometimes wonder if fans have got caught in a mindset whereby they hate the establishment so much that they want any proposal, so long as it's not one they come up with.

If we imagine this as a retail transaction I the customer wish to purchase the experience of a competitive game of football at 1500 on a Saturday, with variety provided by competing against a large pool of opponents and visiting different towns and cities. With the sides on as level a playing field as possible in terms of squad size and spending power. Ensuring that you experience the extreme highs and lows that being a football fan affords. With ideally the chance of title glory or even the haunting spectre of a relegation fight.

I am not adequately versed in the intricacies of football economics but I am no fool and do not for one minute believe football can survive without money.

As much as it pains me to admit it I can imagine that the television monies received for scheduling a game on a Friday or Monday evening compensates financially for the lack of fans attending it does not aid in the creation f atmosphere and punishes those fans that travel to support their team.

I do not think anyone other than Celtic will win the league title in the next 5-6 seasons after which rangers may have reached the upper echelons of Scottish football again and may have readjusted to the pace and style of play sufficiently to mount a challenge. It is an unfortunate but insurmountable fact that the old firms stranglehold on the Scottish game has eternally damaged it. As aside from the financial superiority the legions of misguided individuals from all four corners of the country that align themselves with one of the two for no reason other than they are easy to support as or 'my da' followed em' means there will always be an imbalance in this country.

I appreciate this has been a rather rambling post but I had 4 espresso's this evening and now can't sleep the point I am trying to make is what I want from any restructure is this:

Chance to play lots of different teams throughout the season

Money spread out fairly

Games scheduled to suit the true fans (those in the grounds NOT on their sofa)

Excitement both of glory or humiliation

There are elements of 12-12-18 which appeal but I feel its too convoluted over all I'd rather see more teams in the top flight and 3 up 3 down.

15 people got round a table to look at both proposals.  The majority of them were from the SFL and the consensus from that meeting was that the SPL proposal was the one with most potential for success....with some tweaks.

Not yet they haven't but they will do today according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20932584

 

 

>>As I understand it, the merging if the league associations was also part of the original SPL plan...which was basically that they would the 12-12 and leave the rest for the SFL to administer on their own.

My understanding is there will be one body running the whole lot.

 

 

Edited January 15, 201313 yr by Alex MacLeod

 

15 people got round a table to look at both proposals.  The majority of them were from the SFL and the consensus from that meeting was that the SPL proposal was the one with most potential for success....with some tweaks.

Not yet they haven't but they will do today according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20932584

 

 

>>As I understand it, the merging if the league associations was also part of the original SPL plan...which was basically that they would the 12-12 and leave the rest for the SFL to administer on thei

r own.

My understanding is there will be one body running the whole lot.

 

 

 

Alex, that article you quoted is from 7th January.

Oh sh1t!!!! My stupid.

Must be all that Angola sunshine.

Would love to see the bottom tier connected to HL EoS and others

If we imagine this as a retail transaction I the customer wish to purchase the experience of a competitive game of football at 1500 on a Saturday, with variety provided by competing against a large pool of opponents and visiting different towns and cities. With the sides on as level a playing field as possible in terms of squad size and spending power. Ensuring that you experience the extreme highs and lows that being a football fan affords. With ideally the chance of title glory or even the haunting spectre of a relegation fight.

I am not adequately versed in the intricacies of football economics but I am no fool and do not for one minute believe football can survive without money.

As much as it pains me to admit it I can imagine that the television monies received for scheduling a game on a Friday or Monday evening compensates financially for the lack of fans attending it does not aid in the creation f atmosphere and punishes those fans that travel to support their team.

I do not think anyone other than Celtic will win the league title in the next 5-6 seasons after which rangers may have reached the upper echelons of Scottish football again and may have readjusted to the pace and style of play sufficiently to mount a challenge. It is an unfortunate but insurmountable fact that the old firms stranglehold on the Scottish game has eternally damaged it. As aside from the financial superiority the legions of misguided individuals from all four corners of the country that align themselves with one of the two for no reason other than they are easy to support as or 'my da' followed em' means there will always be an imbalance in this country.

I appreciate this has been a rather rambling post but I had 4 espresso's this evening and now can't sleep the point I am trying to make is what I want from any restructure is this:

Chance to play lots of different teams throughout the season

Money spread out fairly

Games scheduled to suit the true fans (those in the grounds NOT on their sofa)

Excitement both of glory or humiliation

There are elements of 12-12-18 which appeal but I feel its too convoluted over all I'd rather see more teams in the top flight and 3 up 3 down.

 

 

I agree with this entirely

 

I was  wondering as a relitive newcomer to Scotland, why in the great City of Glasgow that other teams within it's boundries struggle so much . I would be interested to know if the gates at ST. Mirren, or possibly  Partick Thistle have grown at all now Rangers are out of the SPL.

Nothing makes a Buddies blood boil more than suggesting Paisley is in Glasgow.  Paisley is near Glasgow. Not in it.  Change those to Scotland and England and you will see the difference it makes.

Just think of the reasons why Ross C*unty struggle in the shadow off ICT and you'll have a close comparison.

 

(That should set one or two folks off).

The short answer Laurence is that their gates have not increased, as "the" rangers have held onto their fan base even after being demoted to D3. There are reasons for this, bound up in defiance, paranoia and the wider protestant identity of the fans. If the demotion had happened to their neighbours, the result would have been the same (but catholic) The team that has benefitted most from their demise is, strangely, us as evidenced by our league position. If we stay where we are, we unaffected by the proposed reorganisation and we will happily slot into the top 8. Champagne & cigars time. Clubs like County and Dundee United, who are currently on the slide, may not like it so much if they get caught in the middle 8 dogfight. That, as they say, is their problem.

Nothing makes a Buddies blood boil more than suggesting Paisley is in Glasgow.  Paisley is near Glasgow. Not in it.  Change those to Scotland and England and you will see the difference it makes.

 

Hi thank you for your answer , as an ex Bury supporter I used to get very annoyed about being called a Manc.

I see were you are coming from.  But my point is that if either City or United had been put in the bottom tier I would expect Bolton would have got increased gates. Anyway ty for your answer.

If anything Rangers attendances have gone up slightly, Celtic are the club who have suffered on the attendances, with them even not announcing attendances, and several times claiming over 45k but on tv its clearly closer to half that. They are obviously counting the non attending season ticket holders like County did in the past. However, I do see Rangers attendances slowly reducing over the next few seasons.

 

Anyway still flabbergasted at clubs ignoring the fans wished for a larger league. Best way for them to offer change, is to set up a new league where their is a brilliant chance of no change at all for years. Only positive is the the spl/sfl becoming one. Should still just be the SFA full stop

Chalie Nicholas was very scathing of the proposed new structure on Sky today. He was not an

amoured of Charles Green  at all. I seem to remember the word barking being used.

 

He paticulary disliked the idea of the points being reset to zeroi for the playoff league.

Edited January 20, 201313 yr by Laurence

How about an eleven team top league...

 

 

...seems to be working well this year.

Is it not just a 10 team league now.

Premier League spent £120m just during Jan transfer window on a few moves here and there, nothing serious. Little chance for Scottish clubs to compete with that kind of commercial strength, saturation TV, competition from new sports and the OF. Our clubs are chasing a tiny amount of available punter cash and sponsorship. I'm not convinced by the changes proposed and especially the suits pushing it:

 

Stewart Regan hopes to get fans on board with league plans

Scottish Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan hopes to convince fans the country does not need a larger top flight.

 

 

"I think there's an educational exercise that we need collectively to go through," said Regan

 

Have you felt 'educated' by these guys?

 

But times are tough and if all the clubs do go for this then I just hope it has an impact.

I'm not convinced any kind of revamp is going to overall improve Scottish football as a whole but it will at least breath fresh air into the current set up.  I'm a fan of the 12-12 becoming 8-8-8, For a bottom 4 side it will be great to play a different 4 sides that season.  They really need to sort out the pyramid system though, that is key to keeping the game fresh and the sooner teams like East Stirling get relegated for being utter crap the better.

"I think there's an educational exercise that we need collectively to go through," said Regan

This choice of words reminded me of Kim Yong Il when I first read it. But football has globally descended from a people's sport to a tyranny of suits, beginning at the very top. Were the FIFA a political party in Germany, the Constitutional Court would have to forbid them for being a danger to the democracy.