Following the unacceptable conduct of a small group of “supporters” at our Championship League game against Brechin last Saturday (26th August), the Club can now advise that discussions have taken place with both Brechin City Football Club and Police Scotland, with the view to identifying those supporters whose conduct was unacceptable, including those who were ejected from the Brechin City Football Ground.

The evidence secured to date includes both video and still footage taken at the match and written reports received from both Brechin City and Police Scotland.

The Club is currently collating this evidence with the view of issuing banning orders against those whose conduct has proved to be unacceptable.

As we have stated in the past and reiterate again here, ICTFC will not tolerate unacceptable conduct at Tulloch Caledonian Stadium or away football stadia. Unacceptable conduct is conduct which is deemed violent or disorderly. Violent Conduct includes any actual, attempted or threatened physical violence against any person or intentional damage to property.

Board of Directors
Inverness Caledonian Thistle Football Club

Sadly no chance of them admitting blame going by comments on social media. They don't seem to think they've done anything wrong including dismissing the bus damage as a blatant lie. 

47 minutes ago, PumpFake said:

They are obviously not comparable situations. I would much rather police resources were used to deal with proper criminal action. A situation such as this, where the club could quite easily deal with it themselves by exhibiting a bit of tact - also thereby not dragging the club's name through the mud unnecessarily - does not have to merit a police response.

Unless you advocate calling the police every time you see a group of kids disturbing you by playing the game at no.5 on this list, for example?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/only-in-britain/strange-british-laws/

Pumpfake - that's English laws which are not relevant in Scotland. 

Letting off a smoke flare at a football match is a criminal act in Scotland and therefore is a police matter. Read the back of match tickets you get at all football games. These detail relavant criminal offences (if you are interested).

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by Guest

The really sad thing is the young team and section g before them have had warning after warning after warning regarding their anti social behaviour 

Let's face it there's is no getting through to silly little boys who don't want to listen or take any advice on board

These boys have sadly been radicalised by watching films like football factory and green street

Afraid the argument regarding the atmosphere doesn't wash anymore when they are destroying the good name of the club

 

 

Dougal

 

4 minutes ago, dougal said:

These boys have sadly been radicalised by watching films like football factory and green street

You've been radicalised by chomping on too many Werther's Originals m8.

Also I've heard from several sources at the game that the stewarding and policing aggravated the problem why are we condoning that. Also from last season rangers, celtic and aberdeen fans while attending inverness games cause more trouble yet our stewards and police do nothing. But all the old fuddy duddies on here just moan and complain because their simple life's are being disrupted it's terrible, a joke that you actually want our supporters to sit quietly and do as their told. My three boys love the atmosphere the lads create in the north stand. It's a football match where we go to show our passion for our team not to sit with a cup of tea biscut and blanket and say good show old chap well played.

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by MorayJaggie

21 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

Also I've heard from several sources at the game that the stewarding and policing aggravated the problem why are we condoning that. Also from last season rangers, celtic and aberdeen fans while attending inverness games cause more trouble yet our stewards and police do nothing. But all the old fuddy duddies on here just moan and complain because their simple life's are being disrupted it's terrible, a joke that you actually want our supporters to sit quietly and do as their told. My three boys love the atmosphere the lads create in the north stand. It's a football match where we go to show our passion for our team not to sit with a cup of tea biscut and blanket and say good show old chap well played.

I agree that Old Firm fans in particular get off with far too much disgraceful conduct without sanction. All the more reason for our young crew not to follow suit. Two wrongs can never make a right.

25 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

Also I've heard from several sources at the game that the stewarding and policing aggravated the problem why are we condoning that. Also from last season rangers, celtic and aberdeen fans while attending inverness games cause more trouble yet our stewards and police do nothing. But all the old fuddy duddies on here just moan and complain because their simple life's are being disrupted it's terrible, a joke that you actually want our supporters to sit quietly and do as their told. My three boys love the atmosphere the lads create in the north stand. It's a football match where we go to show our passion for our team not to sit with a cup of tea biscut and blanket and say good show old chap well played.

In summary, if you behave home or away (and in life in general) you will not come to the attention of the Stewards or Police. So don't blame them. 

Yes the young lads create an atmosphere, but if you and your three kids had to breathe in the discharge from a flare (which I have unfortunately experienced) I bet you would not be singing their praises so much. 

Supporters pay their money and can sit peacefully if they want. If you want razzmatazz all the time you are going to the wrong place and watching the wrong sport. 

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by Guest

We did at the elgin game and it didn't bother us.  Again with the grammer comment my point being proved about the tea and biscuits.  We also pay our money to have an exciting match day experience not a wake.

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by MorayJaggie

1 hour ago, Caman said:

Pumpfake - that's English laws which are not relevant in Scotland. 

Letting off a smoke flare at a football match is a criminal act in Scotland and therefore is a police matter. Read the back of match tickets you get at all football games. These detail relavant criminal offences (if you are interested).

The point was very obviously a general one about the merits of getting the police involved in trivial matters.

I am not the sort of person who reads the back of tickets, but thank you for enlightening me.

3 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

We did at the elgin game and it didn't bother us.  Again with the grammer comment my point being proved about the tea and biscuits.

Grammar

2 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

Grammar

Grammar.

I remember when I used to read outraged complaints on here about me and my mates at games, I'm getting old lads.

23 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

We did at the elgin game and it didn't bother us.  Again with the grammer comment my point being proved about the tea and biscuits.  We also pay our money to have an exciting match day experience not a wake.

You're lucky that coming from Burghead you have six fingers on each hand to disperse the fumes and smoke. 

Were you on or off duty, as you previously mentioned being a riot police officer somewhere?  

How should the Police control the disorder then since you have been critical of your own colleagues and saying they do nothing? 

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by Guest

9 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

But all the old fuddy duddies on here just moan complain because their simple life's are being disrupted it's terrible a joke that you actually want our supporters to sit quietly and do as their told. My three boys love the atmosphere the lads create in the north stand. It's a football match where we go to show our passion for our team not to sit with a cup of tea biscut and blanket and say good show old chap well played.

Dougal is right when he says people have been warned time and time again.  Previous incidents have led to this kind of discussion on numerous occasions.  In all those discussions I cannot recall a single person ever suggesting our supporters should "sit quietly".  Time after time, old "fuddy duddies" like me make a point of saying we love the atmosphere the lads create.  If there wasn't a rogue element amongst them, I have no doubt that more youngsters would join in and the atmosphere would progressively improve.  And the more people who join in the vocal support, the more likely others are to join in.  

Some of these youngsters don't seem to grasp the fact that engaging in the type of behaviour which occurred on Saturday could result in them getting a criminal record.  That could then have serious implications for them when they start looking for a job.  The club and us "fuddy duddies" don't want decent lads getting sucked into wrong kinds of behaviour with all the implications it may have for them.  That is why the club's firm line is to be applauded.  

Nobody here is against the young crew.  We are very much for them which is why they have been warned time and time again of the consequences of their behaviour.  Stewarding may be heavy handed from time to time but you can hardly complain about stewards and police evicting people from the ground when a criminal act has taken place.  And time and time again, when stewarding has genuinely been heavy handed, the "fuddy duddies" come to the defence of the youngsters and in some cases have personally intervened.

It is rather sad to see that utterly pathetic statement which was posted above.  If any of the lads involved in that group are genuine fans of the club they will not associate themselves with that statement.  Genuine fans  of this club will come and support it.  Genuine fans who give great vocal support to the team will always be welcomed by the club and their fellow fans of all ages.  It is only  the tiny number of Idiots who break the law, who put their so called mates at risk of legal sanctions and who damage the reputation of our club who are not welcome.  Instead of playing the victim, it is high time that the majority of decent lads stood up to the idiots and stood up for the club.

1 hour ago, dougal said:

The really sad thing is the young team and section g before them have had warning after warning after warning regarding their anti social behaviour 

Let's face it there's is no getting through to silly little boys who don't want to listen or take any advice on board

These boys have sadly been radicalised by watching films like football factory and green street

Afraid the argument regarding the atmosphere doesn't wash anymore when they are destroying the good name of the club

 

 

Dougal

 

I hereby confirm that, for the first time ever, I have given Dougal a "green dot"?

Well at least there is something happening on this thread compared to the lack of action on the transfer window 

3 minutes ago, IBM said:

Well at least there is something happening on this thread compared to the lack of action on the transfer window 

IBM - It's more of a transfer 'closed pair of curtains' than 'window' for us.

Although in fairness, we have shipped in quite a few guys up until now. 

But that's for the relevant thread - oops. 

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by Guest

2 hours ago, PumpFake said:

They are obviously not comparable situations. I would much rather police resources were used to deal with proper criminal action.

Just because in one you are the victim and in another support and condone the perpetrator, does not make them incomparable. Letting off pryotechnics at football IS proper criminal action, covered under The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985. If you feel strongly enough that such behaviour should not be criminalised, by all means lobby your MP and others to have the act changed, if the desire is there to allow this then get it permitted in the right way.

11 minutes ago, Rasczak said:

Just because in one you are the victim and in another support and condone the perpetrator, does not make them incomparable. Letting off pryotechnics at football IS proper criminal action, covered under The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985. If you feel strongly enough that such behaviour should not be criminalised, by all means lobby your MP and others to have the act changed, if the desire is there to allow this then get it permitted in the right way.

You obviously have a keen interest in the law, which I respect. Restorative justice is perhaps a process which you should familiarise yourself with - a "case" like this one is perfectly suited to its application, without even the need to get the police involved. 

The simple fact, overlooked by those saying this is an overreaction by the club, is that the SPFL have already contacted the club on this issue so they obviously saw something wrong at the game. Leaving aside the irony of why the SPFL don't contact Rangers and Celtic, as far as I know on behaviour issues, this could have serious consequences for the club. This is why they have to act.  We do have a problem with some young fans which I have experienced myself having been verbally abused and threatened when I told them to stop behaving like idiots when they were hell bent on challenging away fans to a fight last season. The sooner everyone acknowledges the fact we do have an issue, the sooner we can resolve the matter. The statement from UL17 is simply puerile rubbish and indicative of the attitude of many young people (sadly) today where any criticism is deemed unacceptable.

3 hours ago, ferben1994 said:

Steady on.

Whilst you are correct that the behaviour is unacceptable you have basically just alleged that pumpfake is complicit in it due to his responses on here.

I hope you are able to back that up.

The sentence in question:-

There are far too many apologists for the "poor misunderstood children" who have been making a disgrace of the club for far too long - and having also read Pump Fake's latest post, also while I have been writing, I am tempted to include him in this category.

is about the apologists. I don't think it's too difficult to back up the proposition that pumpfake is an apologist for the behaviour in question. His own posts are more than sufficient for this purpose.

4 minutes ago, PumpFake said:

You obviously have a keen interest in the law, which I respect. Restorative justice is perhaps a process which you should familiarise yourself with - a "case" like this one is perfectly suited to its application, without even the need to get the police involved. 

It doesn't seem from your previous posts that you respect all laws. The point here is though, that the first time a smoke bomb was let off, a talking to was quite right. Even the second or third time I could understand, but the sheer number of incidents, from the smoke bombs to the chasing after other teams fans in Elgin looking for a fight, means it has now got beyond that and as those behaving in this manner don't seem to pay attention to the gentle advise, then what else is left? As is clear from their own statement, the wider group don't seem to think that any of their number have done anything that could be remotely considered wrong

 I think we both agree it is wrong, though disagree on how wrong, so if the wider group don't accept that when given the facts and asked to modify their behaviour, further action is required. Added to this, as others have reminded us, the SPFL have raised it with the club officially, if the club aren't seen to act beyond what has already been done, then sanctions directly against the club could be possible.

33 minutes ago, Rasczak said:

Just because in one you are the victim and in another support and condone the perpetrator, does not make them incomparable. Letting off pryotechnics at football IS proper criminal action, covered under The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985. If you feel strongly enough that such behaviour should not be criminalised, by all means lobby your MP and others to have the act changed, if the desire is there to allow this then get it permitted in the right way.

Being an anorak here, but my solicitor mate has pointed out the above is English Law.

Cherk the back of your ticket for the Scottish Law. 

Also, Law and Order is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, so it's your MSP you would write to, not your MP.  To make it worthwhile also complain about the state of the education system, health service, roads etc etc 

42 minutes ago, Rasczak said:

Just because in one you are the victim and in another support and condone the perpetrator, does not make them incomparable. Letting off pryotechnics at football IS proper criminal action, covered under The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985. If you feel strongly enough that such behaviour should not be criminalised, by all means lobby your MP and others to have the act changed, if the desire is there to allow this then get it permitted in the right way.

It also amounts to the common law criminal offences of breach of the peace or culpable and reckless conduct.

I had been trying to figure out how to voice my opinion on this one until Doofers Dad came along and basically said almost exactly what I was thinking. Enjoyment is fine, but like it or not, some things are against the law at a football match and flares and smoke bombs fall under that category. (covered under s. 20 of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995) : reference material - http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/06/7094/7 / http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0052/00520637.pdf

 

From the club perspective, how should they have handled it? Brechin complained to them, the police complained to them, some supporters complained to them, and the match observer reported the issue to the SPFL who have issued the club with an "unacceptable conduct" letter.  We don't know the contents of that letter but it cant be good. These things never are. At best the club will get censured and told to make sure it doesn't happen again, but as it has already happened several times in the last couple of seasons then its far more likely to end up with the club getting a fine of some sort which will probably run into a few thousand £££s .... money that could easily be best spent somewhere else. D&E coaches are likely none too pleased either and that's another potential problem for the supporters/travel club in future.

I agree that we want the supporters to be encouraged to make noise and atmosphere, regardless of age, although it has to be said the young crew have way more energy than us old farts do so it does fall on them to gee us all up ... but FFS you can do that without breaking the law. The law may be an ass, and personally I have a fundamental problem with the concept and draconian application of Football Banning Orders (https://www.mygov.scot/football-banning-orders/) but it IS the law and the authorities or those in charge will come down on those who choose to break it. Totally agree that the stewards can and will over-react, and that the direction of the over-reaction will often be the young supporters. Apart from anything else, the young supporters of a team like us, with a smaller support, are just like 'prey' in the animal kingdom ... seen as the easiest pickings. Its not right, but its how the world works.

I have posted a few times about the dead atmosphere at the TCS on my last few trips back when compared to the football I watch every week here in Toronto, or even to the football I used to watch at the TCS every home game when i still lived in Inverness. It is really sad to see all the enjoyment being sucked out of football in the UK and its not just at ICT, its all around. We should encourage supporters to enjoy the game and create atmosphere but it has to be done safely. smoke and especially flares are not safe. The simple fact is that the authorities have the upper hand here. Get convicted of a football related offence and you can be banned for up to 10 years. Get a criminal conviction and it can follow you for the rest of your life .... Its a bit of a tangent, but did you know that something as simple as an impaired driving conviction makes you inadmissible to even enter Canada as a visitor (assuming you declare it on your landing form or they check !!!). Simple solution is to try and work with the club and/or other bodies to change the rules relating to smoke. It took a long time but they eventually relented on the safe standing issue, flags, smoke and other things could be something that could be negotiated in future perhaps.

Again I go back to a Toronto example (sorry, its all I have on a weekly basis) .... there are a bunch of different supporters groups at TFC. One of those groups was called "North End Elite" who styled themselves in the Ultra culture and did not follow rules, especially as it related to smoke and flares. You can google them and read more but the bottom line is that they no longer exist under that name and quite a few of their number have lifetime bans from TFC as well as criminal convictions. The other supporters groups complained just as loudly that they wanted smoke or some form of pyro and it took several years but now its allowed ... there's a set of guidelines to follow and safety training and procedures to follow, but its allowed and it does add to the atmosphere.There are a good few folk on here who have visited Canada and come to games with me at some point who have experienced this atmosphere. Sometimes you have to work within the system and bend the rules or push the envelope a little to get them to change ... defiantly breaking them will not make that happen and if the group that condones it or does nothing about it doesn't 'self-police' to eradicate that behaviour then there is only ever going to be one winner and its not going to be the supporters !