Sorted

CD, appreciate your thoughts but what I am trying to get to is what is the basis for this confidence in TB/MM? Can anyone give real examples of where they have delivered with any of the clubs they have been involved with in a coaching/managerial capacity? Do they have a history of signing little known players and blending them into an effective team unit?

People need to stop taking the POTY Voting as a measure of assessing an individual's contribution on a football pitch. Anyone who thinks LDZ will ever be a full back needs to give themselves a bit of a shake.

Advised to place my thought on this thread as the thread it was on has now been closed. Twice in a day at my age !! For all those of a hopeful, positive nature who keep telling us it'll all be fine, give it time etc, can you please provide me with a single piece of evidence to back up your claims and I will be more than happy to consider it? TB and MM between them have the managerial pedigree of Mike Basset. From Coventry, Sunderland, Brentrford, Sydney, Swindon, Motherwell (MM not TB) their records are shocking and provide me with no comfort for the battle ahead. Vigurs and Wood gone! Conference players as replacements on much higher wages! Pavels to RB and Tokes to CB at a crucial time of the season! Lionel not Dick! All decisions taken by our managerial team alone. Why? Will keep repeating myself until someone can gove me any crumb of comfort. It's an age thing.

Get over it, you've had a thread on an Internet Forum deleted, big deal. A comparison between the action of a moderator deleting a thread and a dictatorship is slightly unrealistic! What next, concerns of work camps for spelling mistakes, seriously.......... Understandably you want to air your views, but as you said, you posted it on the wind up, what do you expect? Your comments about us being in a worse state under TB/MM flabberghast me. They are not the great white hope, they are not miracle workers, but they are IMHO a damn site better than the joke combination of CB/MT. That pair managed to do so much damage to the club that it may well take a couple of seasons to repair. Do you seriously want CB/MT back?.......Seriously?................ Don't want them back at all but I want people to be accountable for their actions. Anyone who thinks that we are not in a much worse state than we were is kidding themselves on. Posted on another thread about TB's and MM's managerial records at the clubs they have been at. For the umpteenth time, TB has been an abject failure at every club he has been at from Sunderland, Coventry, Brentford, Sydney apart from Motherwell where he inherited a fabulous group of kids at the same time. MM has been worse. Go and spend some time gathering any evidence to the contrary and I will listen. Will not accept they are better "because!" They let Vigurs and Wood go FFS! They play LDZ ahead of Dick. Dumped Pavels to RB to play Tokes at CB!! I will dance down Academy St naked is any of the "Conference" players the have signed to date prove to be anything other than that. Also from my perspective, the playing fayre that has been served up to date under TB is shocking, drivel at worst. All I want is people to wake up and smell the coffee. Some vocal punters got what they wanted but what now? Can anyone provide me with a single thread of evidence that I should have any confidence in the ability of our current managerial team? Perhaps I'm missing something and there is a whole chapter of success that will be dumped in front of me. Perhaps not.

Totally understand and accept the difficult role of moderation. Also appreciate the enormous amount of work that must go in to delivering the site for all of us. If my questioning the role of the Trust is unacceptable then I am on the wrong site because, as I understood, we were free to debate issues related to our club. If people are big enough to right columns in daily newspapers publically questioning peoples decisions and/or their ability to do their job then they should be big enough to ecpect to be challenged. That is what public life is about and what the people they choose to criticise have to endure. The fact that some are paid and some are not is irrelevant, public life is public life. I do not post abuse and take exception to being told I am. It shows a clear lack of understanding of the principles of debate and discussion, comparable only with the questioned "why", being answered with "because". Perhaps, Romanov is looking for a new member for his PR team and Alex could fill the void. As a moderator he is certainly demonstrating the skills required.

Looks like Alex called it right in closing the poll based on those 4 words alone, so end of argument in that regard. If you want to make any further comment on the subject then I ask that you follow the correct procedures by raising the matter with one of the Senior Moderators (Gringo and The Mantis) via PM and they will take it forward for proper discussion. With regards the Trust, nobodies been more critical of them since they formed than me and their was things (not) happening which I felt strongly about. I learnt that all the bitching and moaning in the world wasn't going to change anything so I put myself forward for the Trust Board and I can now have a proper say. Not saying that I've changed anything, but I'm now in a position to put my ideas and thoughts forward and to challenge anything I disagree with before it comes to an end product which is what most people see. We can all mouth off (I've done/do more than most), but are you willing to step up to the plate and actually do your bit to perhaps bring about the things you want to see? I'll happily sign your (or anyone's) Trust Board nomination papers. I assume by your response that any post in which the originator can be deemed to "be fishing" will now be closed. Look forward to this approach being displayed fairly across the board and commend you for your supportive approach to Alex's well thought out considered response. No doubt there will be a number of well know anglers awaiting similar treatment. Your point about people stepping up to accept positions of responsibility are fair but there is a subtle difference in that I do not claim to speak for anyone other than my myself. As for nomination, any desire I had to become involved in the organisation has long since gone. There are enough uncontrollable, unaccountable, untouchable quangos in today's society and I see no need to be part of this one. Speak for me, not a chance!!

I wasn't happy but bit confused. We had played well at Hamilton in my opinion and but for Granty's daft tackle would have taken a point which was the least we deserved. Can't remember how many times we hit the woodwork. Brew had also been allowed to make new signings, two of which proved very decent players in Filepe and Pavels. It seemed strange to sack him then. What would have happened, who knows but what I do know it couldn't have been any worse. That fact can't be argued. I also know that Brew can't be held responsible for our inpet failure over the last few games of the season. Seriously though, I does not sit well with me that I am being censored in this manner particularly if, as Alex believes, the Trust speak on our behalf. What king of organisation that is supposed to representative cannot be questioned? Check my posting history, I am far from abusive!

As you may see, I have a perfectly reasonable poll closed and accused of being abusive towards all the supporters of the Club by Alex. My poll, mischief making I admit, is quite legitimate in my view and if it constitutes abuse then almost every thread on this site should be closed. It may be however that Alex believes that my thread is particularly "abusive" and I am sure he will be able to elaborate why. His reasoning apparently, is that the Trust, despite having a very small membership speaks on behalf of all the supporters of the club. This is factually incorrect, as it does not speak on my behalf or for any of my family. I also know a number of others who share the same view. The witch hunt that was carried out against the then manager alledgedlly in the name of the supporters, does not and will not ever sit well with me. I was never balloted and at the only meeting I recall on the subject that I was invited to attend there was a pretty even split. I feel entitled to ask the question I did as I am of the firm opinion that this club is considerably worse off now than it was under the previous manager. Others may not share my view but I do not attempt to restrict there ability to speak. It is sad that some moderators freely expect our club to be open and accountable to the highest standard, accept challenge and answer accordingly. Pity others aren't allowed to be scrutinised in a similar fashion. Lastly in week that saw a huge gesture of compassion excercised by an individual in a position of huge responsibility, isn't it sad that an idividual with a wee bit of responsibility choses to excercise accordingly with little humility or compassion. Sadly dictatorship never dies it just changes it's format......

Get tired of this! There is a finite space, two ways out, the busiest trunk road in the Highlands mobbed on the busiest shopping day of the week and our busiest crowd of the season. Most if not 95% of clubs don't give a toss if you have somewhere to park your car or not and leave you with the entire problem. Our club do far more than most and still get slaughtered. Leave the car and walk. Get a bus. Cycle. Get a lift. Camp. Don't take your car as you will be on here moaning!

All here Sorted... Impeccable credentials Cheers JB, something had to give me a laugh this weekend!!

Well callers, what do you think?

Two left ones I presume. Smart move. At least you can be assured that when you get them at the end of the season, even if as the AP man says they are both for the left foot, at least they will be cas good as new!

FFS, get a grip.. don't feed the County Troll... The first is a far tighter league than the SPL was, the team that will win it is the team that is consistant... It's too early in the season and we have too many new young inexperienced players to expect to have a level of consistancy at present. When our new team, play well they are playing better football than we have played for a while and when they play badly are rubbish (as in yesterday) this is the stage we are at in starting to build a team to challenge for the First. We don't have the money to buy in a squad of experienced players, and some of ours are getting past it.. What Butcher is doing is the only course of action possible... If you sack him, then your not only not giving him a fair chance, you are also going to put the club in a even worse financial position. As paying him off and getting in a new manager will only result in a smaller, weaker squad. Wake up and smell the coffee folks, we had 5 seasons in the SPL a good run for a club our size. Now we have to start again.. build a new team, get consistancy, find new talent, that is going to take time.. We have brought in 6-7 new players with next to no first team experience, if 3 of them cut it, we will be doing well... we also have our existing youngsters who also need brought on... Talk of sacking Butcher is nonsense. The club have made their bed and now we have to lie in it. The fact that it will be at the lower reaches of the first division instead of the lower reaches of the SPL is disappointing. I smelt the coffee as soon as TB was appointed. We have got rid of our two best youngsters and the 6-7 we have brought in ........well let's see, but on the evidence so far they will be more comfortable against Annan than Peterhead. As fot the finances, Butcher must have cash. He just hasn't got a clue how to use it. Vigurs and Wood are paid less than half of what most of TB's incoming signings earn. He let them go, in fact told them to go and they were immediately signed by Adams and Brewster. Who is wrong?

Posted a detailed rant on the Matchday Thread when I came home from the game and an in agreement with the man from Loch Shiel. After an evening on line studying TB and MM's managerial records and good sleep, I am more convinced than ever we are now under the guidance of a totally inept management team. Great players they were but as bosses, their pedigree stinks. I will happily discuss with anyone who is prepared to do their homework and come back to me with a different conclusion but whether it be Brentford, Oz, Coventry, Swindon, Sunderland, Scotland, Motherwell (in MM's case) or anywhere else the dynamic duo have served they make Brewster and Thomson look like Clough and Taylor! Not speaking out after the event, said so at the time of appointment. So where are we now? Dispatched good young Scottish talent like Vigurs and Woods for the sake of washers or managerial misjudgement and replaced them with third rate English pub league players who revel when play Stranraer or Coatbridge but disappear when they meet a half decfent team, playing the most inept footballer in the country at left back and leaving an established Canadian international on the bench, training without a manager all week as he pisses off to do his real job and all this at a level way below where we have been for the past years. How TB gets the level of adoration he rceives from some of our support is beyond me! The captain of our greatest international rivals and one half of the OF, he is treated like a God by some. Dressing up in bandages FFS! Maybe that says more about some of our support and their "proper team". Never mind though, TB always says we are a great support, presses all the right media buttons, speaks confidently and articulately as an after dinner speaker, has heaps of caps and a particularly nice one for matchday. The fact he can't tell LDZ isn't a footballer is of no concern! We are in for a very long season of struggle no doubt. In the First Division not the SPL. But none of it is TB's fault is it!

Take your point on Pavels with regard to signing him but the fact remains that TB removed him from the centre of defence long before he left the club, choosing not to play him or stick him at right back. I have read my post again and stand by all my comments. Neither Vigurs or Wood required a fee and were allowed to leave. There replacements are sub standard who would struggle to find their way into the higher reaches of non league English football. The impending return of Eric doesn't excite me either. The favourites you refer to were pumped at home today which puts our performance into perspective but I do think TB is more comfortable when the onus is on the other team and not us. We are at best a mediocre team in a standard of football well below where we have been competing for the past five years or so. We have also discarded, unceremoniously, many of the guys who were responsible for getting us there and keeping us there for a fair run and replaced them with nobodies!

Anyone who is prepared to term this "a bad day at the office" is viewing our team and management through rose tinted spectacles. This has been coming for a long time, in fact was always going to happen the first decent team we met at home. Butcher's signings are in my opinion, based on this season's home games at best decent Division Two players. It is not coincidence that we have picked up guys rejected by Partick Thistle for example. How any manager could contemplate not offering Pavels a contract and feel that his fellow countryman is of a similar standard is beyond me? How a former international centre half can think this is laughable. How can he justify allowing Vigurs and Wood to leave when you can rest assured that the replacements brought in will be consting considerably more and, to date, delivering considerably less? How can he not see that LDZ is a woeful, pitiful excuse for a full back and will cost goals every single game? The quality of the fayre is also woeful and, in my opinion, much worse than anything served up in the Brewster era. An era, when we competed against SPL clubs of a much higher standard then the league in which we now fin ourselves. Punt, punt punt! No fluiditity, no guile, no drive, no passion. It is all very well beating Albion Rovers but we have serious problems if we can't beat the newly promoted boys and our neighbours at home. Actually, we can't even compete with our neighbours. We are in for a very long season ahead and I believe quite firmly, our task is to focus on staying in the top half of this division this year and avoid being dragged down. Promotion, forget it. Our squad lacks depth and our manager lacks guile. As stated at the time of his appointment, TB's managerial record is woeful, aside from the one season at Motherwell when he inherited a fantastic crop of youngsters. MM is worse. Why they will suddenly turn into tactical geniuses is beyond me? For the record, LDZ's performance today was the worst I have ever witnessed in an ICT shirt at any level. Quite how it he was allowed to remain on the pitch for so long is the scariest aspect of today's performance! Gladly, we now go on a game to game basis as the thought of having spent hard earned cash to watch football of this quality is frightening. It was one thing enduring difficult days in the SPL against the best teams in the land, another having to face this in league one. Feel better now, and I never booed or screamed abuse at anyone in my team :angry: !

He must have remembered that America has a fair smattering of Irish Republican supporters... including the late Teddy Kennedy... so maybe he's concluded they're not that bad after all. Teddy Kennedy wasn't all bad Charles. If I recall correctly I'm sure he looked quite hard for the poor lassie who ended up in the river with him when he was half shot. He even asked for help the following morning after leaving her!!

He must have remembered that America has a fair smattering of Irish Republican supporters... including the late Teddy Kennedy... so maybe he's concluded they're not that bad after all. The most intriguing thought running through my mind when reading our Sutherland friend's contribution is the fact that Dornoch Academy once had the audacity to opt out of Council control, in Thatcher's time, before coming crawling back to the local authority. Perhaps it was the stress of too many DC's!!!

Somone's stuck in the seventies listening to their Showaddywaddy records!!

Would be very pleased if TB could secure this deal. The boy must have some pedigree if he's making the bench in that league and would certainly give options for a more physical prescence. Even if it doesn't come off, glad to see that old contacts are being worked. Good news.

Talisker for me with a good splash of peaty unfiltered Foyers water.

There have been a number of individuals who have put a fair whack of their own cash into the club over the years and as a punter I thank them all for it as in terms of the Scottish game, it is questionable if any investor has ever been financially successful. The exception to the case was Fergus McCann who took on Celtic's debt at a time when no one else wanted it, created a well oiled business machine and sold for a healthy profit, getting a fair deal of stick in the process. Never quite understood where punters came from on that one. More often investors get stick for not putting enough in, irrespective of how much they put in and get nothing back. No matter how much passion I have for my football club I still wouldn't invest my cash if I didn't have control, couldn't see an exit route with a return or an obvious growth route. Ultimately, even if I could have the first three I probably still wouldn't invest as my motives would be questioned continually, it would be never be enough and I would become public property. On the specifics of the accounts (not having seen the detail), we are still in reasonable shape and there may well be an accrual for any potential Marius fall out. Stronger shape than most in our league I would guess.

Purely for the crack!

Keith is about right he said awaiting the streams of apologies from posters who castigated coach after coach for their failure to recognise the brilliance of the wee man, his SPL game changing qualities and obvious destiny for bigger and better things. Me thinks he'll wait a long time....... Then again, it could be that every single coach/manager involved in Scottish League Football is wrong and some posters on here no best !