Renegade

Bit off topic, but I hear Hope Powell (a woman and head of the England Women's Team) is being linked with the Grimsby job!

If you could back in time in the history of ICT and relive a period again, what period would it be, and how do you compare the team then to the team now? For me, I'd love go back in time, just to see the team under Paterson again. I can't give a certain date, but around the time ICT first came into the First Division, that's what I'd like to see again. What I'd give to see an in prime Wyness up front with Paul Richie again, as well as seeing the likes of Paul Sheerin, an in prime Barry Wilson and Barry Robson in the midfield, along with Bobby Mann at the back and Jim Calder in goal. To me that was ICT, and if you compare the team now, I don't think they even do compare, and what I'd give to see one more game and fully appreciate the team back then. IMO the current team would be gubbed had they ever came up against that lot. As time has gone on, I've felt that ICT has changed. I used to feel back then that it was ICT I was watching, but now it's something else. Even up until a few seasons ago, the lifeblood of ICT was still intact, but over the last two or three seasons, the core has been ripped away. If you could go back in time and relive another game from ICT's history when would it be and how do you compare that team to the team now?

What about the formation that becoming quite popular in South America, the 4-1-3-2? By using that, Cox could be the holding midfielder, with Sanchez further forward in between probably Hayes and Imrie. I could also mean he could go further forward in attack.

Here's my question to the ones who like Robbo. Where was this Robbo love fest when Christie resigned? This whole thing only seems to have popped up, in the last few months of Brewster's reign, but when Christie resigned there was barely anyone saying they wanted him to take over (I checked out the necessary threads a wee while back). So why's he become so popular all of a sudden?

Does anyone else agree that the time has come to start the home games with three strikers? I certainly do. It seems just now that Butcher seems to try and play the same system at home and away which doesn't seem to be working at home. Away, yes this defensive style and holding back a little bit seems to work in the away games, but at home ICT have to become more attacking. For me a switch to three strikers at home and going for a win from the very begining has to be done and using three strikers can help with this. We've seen now, and from the home record that the current system of 4-5-1, or a defensive minded 4-4-2 just isn't working, and switching, to the most likely three strikers formation, the 4-3-3 might well be the answer in sorting out the awful home record. I'm not sure ICT have the defence just now to play 3-4-3, so 4-3-3 may have to be used. It's been quite a long time now since we've seen entertaining attacking football at Caley Stadium, but switching a system like this may not just improve the entertainment quality, but may also improve the home results as well. But who to play in this front three? For me, I'd go with Barrowman, Foran and Odhiambo, providing all are fully fit. It's obvious that both Foran and Barrowman need someone to help and feed off them in able to reach their potential, and with the added zip of Odhiambo, could give the spark to the front line that it needs. Besides Odhiambo, I wouldn't mind seeing how well Sanchez or Imrie could also do alongside them. Thoughts?

Just shows how poor Scottish football is these days.

I didn't say that would've been a different outcome, but mine is certainly more sensible, even more so considering Butcher it was the most important game in ICT's short history. Why on Earth did he keep Tokely out of position, which in the end was a factor in his sending off, cause he hadn't the positional sense nor the speed to catch up with anyone getting past him. After his sending off the game was essentially lost. Why was Mihadjuks out of position? He was a centre half, and only a centre half. Why was he played in a postition he's never played before, far less so considering the natural right back was also out of position, in his position. Why was Esson again left out in the place of the medicore Michael Fraser? Would my line up have had a different out? Who knows, but what Butcher went with IMO certainly had an impact on ICT's relegation.

This site needs a "pot...kettle" smiley! Maybe you should go back and see the formation and team selection I put up for the Falkirk game, compared to Butcher's one. I think you'll see which one was more sensible. Edit - My formation for that game was - Esson Tokely Mihadjuks Munro Djebi-Zadi Morais Black Kerr Imrie Barrowman Foran Bare in mind who was available/unavailable and on-form/off-form at the time. Butcher's was - Fraser Mihadjuks Tokely Munro Djebi-Zadi Imrie Black Kerr McBain Morais Foran

This site needs a "pot...kettle" smiley! mAYBE

Interesting to see the highlights from the other side of the pitch for once. Haven't seen the highlights from that angle since ICT's first season in Division One the first time round IIRC. By the way, why was the game being filmed on the other side as well? Who is that for and if/where can we see it? I've noticed a few games being filmed from over there this season, but never seem to come up online (the Ayr game being an example).

DC; Renegade: Fair enough, you don't rate Butcher as a manager; I have doubts myself. But can either of you explain why it would benefit the club more to sack him now, accrue extra debts for the club paying off his and MM's contracts and leave a replacement (probably of equally or more dubious pedigree) to fashion a winning side out of TB's signings, rather than accepting we're going to have a poor season and allowing TB and MM to walk away at the end of the season at no extra cost to the club? And if you can't, don't you think it's potentially counter-productive to be so relentlessly critical of the management team? I'm not having a go: I've just not been convinced yet by any of the arguments in favour of changing the management team mid-season. P.S. Apologies for not being able to quote properly from multiple posts in one reply - maybe some kind person less technically inept than me will explain it some day... I don't think I've called for him to be sacked so far, I just feel that he should never have been given the job in the first place. If I could turn back time, and I was given the choice to take Butcher or not, I wouldn't take him. I was keen on him coming in in the first place, but now looking back I was wrong to think so. His record says it all, it's not even what you'd call mediocre. Five previous sackings, four sackings and the other was a bottom finish in his first season, only saved from relegaton on a technicallity. The way his team is and plays, his ICT team, it's obvious why he has such a poor record. The problem is we sit and tolerate it and don't have the funds to get rid of him no matter how bad is, and we're going to have to sit and bare with it for now. This site needs a "pot...kettle" smiley! The difference, mine would work.

I don't buy this whole look to the past stuff and how we should all be pleased about it, it's over. It's now that matters. Currently ICT are being run by a man who only gets management jobs, not because of his record but because of his name. ICT aren't even a shadow of the team they once were, it's been ripped apart by a couple management duds, one that was even given a second spell! In the beloved past, ICT used to be a fun team to watch and support, now it's not. Even just a few seasons ago, the ICT side was one made up of good core players that made ICT, ICT. Now all I see are mainly a bunch of strangers on the field, constantly failing to be able to pass a ball to man a few yards away. This is today's reality.

Probably could have when he was at Saint Johnstone.

Nope none, except failing to keep ICT up, unprofessional behaviour towards the supporters, bizarre team selections towards the end of last season, refusing to play Esson in the last game cause of his ego, playing boring football, playing far too defensively at home, getting rid of decent younger players (ie - Vigurs) and replacing them with duds (ie - Stratford). Other than that he's been fine. :D The difference is they have a decent manager in the first place, and don't stick with duds for the sake of it. They also don't employ a manager who has an awful record.

Poor Stratocaster didn't have a clue yesterday.

Your Avater is cool Renegade , do you like my one ? Aye, aye not bad. Pity it looks more like Michael Owen than Ross Tokely. What!!?? Looks nothing like Michael Owen

Oh yes, and I'm getting tiresome....

That's an interesting point. For a time last season I was fairly regularly puting up formations in the "Team for" treads that were 4-2-4, or similar sorts. As you can imagine, some were foaming at the mouth that someone would dare even consider breaking away from their beloved 4-4-2, or 4-5-1. I seem to recollect a few folk once going 4-5-1 with Odhiambo up front by himself! Seriously, you couldn't make it up. What you say about Barca is interesting as well. Under Guardiola and previously under their last boss, Barca seem to go quite regularly 4-3-3 from the start that becomes a 3-2-5 when on the attack. Obviously the two wingers go foward as old style wingers and a defender goes forward and helps out in midfield. Does it work? Sure it does. Look at Man U right now (or last season anyway) they played a very fluid formation, and I reckon ICT seem offerly keen to stay in formation these days, something that could lead to a downfall.

I'm quite surprised really. For some reason Deano was adored by our Section G lot, but was absolute garbage. He would come on for the last five minutes, probably cause that's all he could manage and would plod around the outside of the centre circle, all five feet of him, doing nowt.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I was thinking about this the other day and couldn't remember right. Weren't ICT linked with Michael Mols at one point? I think it might have been about 2005 ish, a bit after he'd left Rangers.

The G in section G must stand for genius, and I'm constantly floored every week by the sheer brain power that comes from that section.

Didn't think Proctor was overly great today, not MOTM, and not a patch on Foran. Besides his goal and hitting the bar, at times he was poor, and his passing really let him down. For me I went: Foran Cox Imrie How Grant Munro got the official MOTM is beyond me!

For me, the answer is simple and has been for a long time. ICT are now reminicent of the football that now surrounds Scotland and beyond, they're absolutely petrified to concede. I can remember a time, about 10 years so ago, when ICT used to score left, right and centre at TCS in every game, and under Paterson, they were often dubbed the unofficial title, of the "most entertaining team in Britain". We now have a side, who can't control or pass a ball, let alone attack. I noticed again, as I have in a number of previous, ICT essentially play a style at home, where almost all the players are defenders. Against Dunfermline, only Foran, Imrie and Hayes seemed to be attacking players. A couple, such as Cox and Proctor were sort of in the middle, but the rest (including Tokely, who I would normally class as being in the middle of an attacking and defensive player) were defenders and defenders alone. Butcher has yet to show me that he has put a team that can play, at least decent football, I am sorry to repeat myself again, but you've got to look at his previous teams to see that he doesn't play good football, thus being sacked a number of times, cause with this system he couldn't get the results, and the same thing happens here. He even said in the midwek interview that he just wants wins and doesn't want to play "pretty football". 4-5-1 up front with a defensive style at home will get ICT nowhere this season, cause the home form is/will be rubbish and can't be sorted soon enough.

On the subject of Proctor, he may have scored one and hit the bar yesterday, and his passing was at times poor (as is the case with most of the team these days), BUT I thought he looked a heck of a lot better at centre midfield today than at right midfield or right back (or centre half as he was at times under Brew) and when he was at central midfield, I also felt he was far better attacking, than when his previous positions. By no means was he amazing against the Pars, and to say he was the best player is just laughable, but he seems to have more idea round there than Stratford, a player IMO hasn't a clue.

-----------------------------------------------Esson------------------------------------------------ ---Tokely------------------Bulvitis-------------------------Munro------------------Djebi-Zadi--- -----------------Cox-------------------------McBain-------------------Hayes*-------------------- -------------Barrowman---------------------Foran---------------------Imrie--------------------- Subs - Allison, Proctor, Sanchez, Rooney/Golabek, Ross * - If Hayes is injured, move Imrie into left mdfield and put Sanchez on up front, with Rooney or Golabek coming onto the bench.