As one of the younger members of the ICT fan base I don't know a lot about the merger but ive been surprised to hear that it has kept many fans from both teams away from supporting ICT? Find it quite silly TBH

Found this interesting wee article from 2004 http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/30-Clubs/2065-the-moral-highlands

 

As a matter of interest what was the average attendances of the two clubs in highland league? Article above suggests 2000 average in 03/04. Now we average 3500. That suggests that crowd figures have risen since merger and rise up the leagues.

Now lets assume the merger never happened and Caledonian were granted entry to league. Would that team be in top league now with 3500 average crowds or would it be languishing with Montrose and East Stirlingshire with less than 500 averages.

The history of both clubs will not be forgotten nor will the history making of the current club but without the two there probably wouldn't be a current club in its current position.

The answer to the question I posed was 4000 - 476 = 3524.

250 people voted for the merger - a number which included the management and the players. That is a significant number of peeple !! And what of the 226 that voted against ? And what of the 3524 + that were at Perth and what would that support have sounded like resounding from the North Stand ?

And of course the crowd figures have increased - it is SPL attendances - plus the growing numbers of the yoof and peeple from around Britain and the globe. That would have happened to Caley and Thistle.

Yes but would Caley and Thistle, on their own, have reached the top league?

Yes but would Caley and Thistle, on their own, have reached the top league?

Thistle would have. Doubt about the other mob 

I really do not understand why that question is repeatedly proffered. In many ways there would be more chance that it would have happened more quickly. Either club would probably have got the financial backing and the support would have been considerably better. Could you just imagine a Caley v Thistle SPL Derby !!

In a word, no.

Could you just imagine a Caley v Thistle SPL Derby !!

 

Wow. Three defunct institutions in one sentence!

To think of this in terms of numbers only is to accept the limited perspective of a science teacher.

 

Just as important is type, the kind of supporters lost, dismissed by some as riff raff and deadwood, but who were the actual fans who went out and supported the HL teams and kept them going, and without whom there would have been no viable bid for senior league status.

 

If the new club lacks character and the new stadium lacks atmosphere, it is because of the loss of these kinds of fans. For all the smugness and condescension of some on here the loss of those fans has fundamentally weakened the club.

Thats why it is important to create a home for ICT fans  and a sense of belonging, we are the fans, we embrace the wind, hail and snow, its our home and onward we shall go.

 

We are the Pride of the Highlands and that is what WE are.

To think of this in terms of numbers only is to accept the limited perspective of a science teacher.

 

Just as important is type, the kind of supporters lost, dismissed by some as riff raff and deadwood, but who were the actual fans who went out and supported the HL teams and kept them going, and without whom there would have been no viable bid for senior league status.

 

If the new club lacks character and the new stadium lacks atmosphere, it is because of the loss of these kinds of fans. For all the smugness and condescension of some on here the loss of those fans has fundamentally weakened the club.

Thats why it is important to create a home for ICT fans  and a sense of belonging, we are the fans, we embrace the wind, hail and snow, its our home and onward we shall go.

 

We are the Pride of the Highlands and that is what WE are.

Caley always were !! Doubt if the Howden End will ever come near to being recreated.

I really do not understand why that question is repeatedly proffered. In many ways there would be more chance that it would have happened more quickly. Either club would probably have got the financial backing and the support would have been considerably better. Could you just imagine a Caley v Thistle SPL Derby !!

Quite simple really. ICT got into severe debt, even with two stadiums to sell, and if it wasn't for Sutherland and Tulloch's they'd likely have folded. Would one of the two teams have got the backing that ICT got?

 

 

To think of this in terms of numbers only is to accept the limited perspective of a science teacher.

 

Just as important is type, the kind of supporters lost, dismissed by some as riff raff and deadwood, but who were the actual fans who went out and supported the HL teams and kept them going, and without whom there would have been no viable bid for senior league status.

 

If the new club lacks character and the new stadium lacks atmosphere, it is because of the loss of these kinds of fans. For all the smugness and condescension of some on here the loss of those fans has fundamentally weakened the club.

Thats why it is important to create a home for ICT fans  and a sense of belonging, we are the fans, we embrace the wind, hail and snow, its our home and onward we shall go.

 

We are the Pride of the Highlands and that is what WE are.

Caley always were !! Doubt if the Howden End will ever come near to being recreated.

 

Doesnt that contradict a statement you once made (cant remember when) that you more or less said that you wanted to hand over the reigns to the youth in the North Stand, Im assuming that you were humbles/impressed by the younger fans at a match  that day.  Just like Ive been on many an occasion.

Did Caledonian once have scratch cards, I can remember a school pals dad winning a major prize, in fact there was a bit of a problem because too many people won it.

For all the smugness and condescension of some on here the loss of those fans has fundamentally weakened the club.

Yeh.... to the extent that the status of Inverness football has plummeted from the HighlandLeague to the top half of the SPFL Premiership.

Now that your argument has been lost ya really have become a bitter lot.

Alex - the sponsorship in support of an established, historical club would have attracted many whereas ICT was clearly developed to suit the needs of some and eventually saved by others.

12th Man - the yoof are doing their best despite being strangled by moaning feckin sweetie rustlers around them. The Howden End sang in unison and as one. The scratch card whinge is truly pathetic.

And CB's attempt at humour are equally reaching the pathetic level. You are clearly ridiculing passionate fans who would have been an asset. You as usual have totally misunderstood the statement.

That is exactly the analogy - just imagine Bury merging with Bowton and then you have that feeling that many Caley and Thistle fans actually experienced. And would you like the yoof of Bury to be aware of the history of the club before they started eating black pudding pasties ?

 

Why the ek dust keep babblin on with a mock Lanky accent. Its all bunk da nose nobut just a mock fake, stick tu scotch lad. before da mecks a reight clown o' thi sen

 

yoof would in my lanky days be yung uns or nobbut lads

 

bowton  probably better written as boughton as bowton sounds like a womens hat band

 

attiwemi lad or agin mi

 

Hey  Lanky Lanky Lanky - Lanky Lanky Lanky - Lancishere

Keep that up Laurence and you could get a column in the P & J beside the Doric and the Gaelic!

Three different factions now, Caley,Thistle and ICT, a bit of unity would go a long way to building confidence in support for the YOUTH to follow.

Grow up I say, leave your youth as a fond memory and concentrate on the present and future.

Three different factions now, Caley,Thistle and ICT, a bit of unity would go a long way to building confidence in support for the YOUTH to follow.

Grow up I say, leave your youth as a fond memory and concentrate on the present and future.

That is exactly what I am trying to do.

Now that your argument has been lost ya really have become a bitter lot.

Alex - the sponsorship in support of an established, historical club would have attracted many whereas ICT was clearly developed to suit the needs of some and eventually saved by others.

12th Man - the yoof are doing their best despite being strangled by moaning feckin sweetie rustlers around them. The Howden End sang in unison and as one. The scratch card whinge is truly pathetic.

And CB's attempt at humour are equally reaching the pathetic level. You are clearly ridiculing passionate fans who would have been an asset. You as usual have totally misunderstood the statement.

It really looks to me as if this thread has partly degenerated into the argument that, in order to achieve a meteoric rise to the top of Scottish football, it has not been worth losing the opportunity to make a complete @rse of yourself in the Howden End on a Saturday afternoon. There is a lot more to supporting football than the rather 70s fads of swigging Scotsmac, licking stamps and a severe reluctance to admit that one's days of adolescence have long gone.

 

For all the smugness and condescension of some on here the loss of those fans has fundamentally weakened the club.

Yeh.... to the extent that the status of Inverness football has plummeted from the HighlandLeague to the top half of the SPFL Premiership.

 

 

Right on cue.

I really do not understand why that question is repeatedly proffered. In many ways there would be more chance that it would have happened more quickly. Either club would probably have got the financial backing and the support would have been considerably better. Could you just imagine a Caley v Thistle SPL Derby !!

In regard to either club getting financial backing on their own, the answer has to be be a resounding no.  I saw at first hand the delaying tactics and downright hostility displayed by some Councilors and officials in its dealings with ICT over the £900k grant.  It was a minor miracle that the club eventually got this funding and I have no doubt whatsoever that Caley or Thistle on its own would have had no chance of similar funding.

 

ICT come up against considerable planning and funding challenges in its formation but theses challenges would have been many times more extreme for a single entity.

 

In my opinion, the merger was the correct way forward and the success on and off the field is vindication of this difficult decision.

 

Now that your argument has been lost ya really have become a bitter lot.

Alex - the sponsorship in support of an established, historical club would have attracted many whereas ICT was clearly developed to suit the needs of some and eventually saved by others.

12th Man - the yoof are doing their best despite being strangled by moaning feckin sweetie rustlers around them. The Howden End sang in unison and as one. The scratch card whinge is truly pathetic.

And CB's attempt at humour are equally reaching the pathetic level. You are clearly ridiculing passionate fans who would have been an asset. You as usual have totally misunderstood the statement.

It really looks to me as if this thread has partly degenerated into the argument that, in order to achieve a meteoric rise to the top of Scottish football, it has not been worth losing the opportunity to make a complete @rse of yourself in the Howden End on a Saturday afternoon. There is a lot more to supporting football than the rather 70s fads of swigging Scotsmac, licking stamps and a severe reluctance to admit that one's days of adolescence have long gone.

 

 

Maybe you're right, but then again maybe you just don't get it that some people's adolescent experiences were not limited to the thrills of the Scripture Union quiz night or the BB camp at Carrbridge. 

Kind if Blue - again I agree with a lot of that and especially the final sentence. But I do feel that much of the hostility and the opposition was becos of the death of two teams, both affiliated to councillors and a broad dislike of the INE.

And I can only repeat that Atom Ant is clearly rattled and has consistently utilised abuse and personalisation as she has no valid response to proffer any more.

And I can reassure you that there was more opportunity to make an erse of yerself at the BB camp at Carrbridge and A bottle of Pomagne was often the first prize for the quiz. It just seems like yesterday to life loving Peter Pans like ma good self.

 

Now that your argument has been lost ya really have become a bitter lot.

Alex - the sponsorship in support of an established, historical club would have attracted many whereas ICT was clearly developed to suit the needs of some and eventually saved by others.

12th Man - the yoof are doing their best despite being strangled by moaning feckin sweetie rustlers around them. The Howden End sang in unison and as one. The scratch card whinge is truly pathetic.

And CB's attempt at humour are equally reaching the pathetic level. You are clearly ridiculing passionate fans who would have been an asset. You as usual have totally misunderstood the statement.

It really looks to me as if this thread has partly degenerated into the argument that, in order to achieve a meteoric rise to the top of Scottish football, it has not been worth losing the opportunity to make a complete @rse of yourself in the Howden End on a Saturday afternoon. There is a lot more to supporting football than the rather 70s fads of swigging Scotsmac, licking stamps and a severe reluctance to admit that one's days of adolescence have long gone.

 

 

Charles your intolerance of the normal football fan comes shining through yet again, long live the prawn sandwich brigade, how many matches have you paid to see recently ?

Pressure for Mr Bannerman - who only pays for matches when a Swan Vesta is lit

Found this interesting wee article from 2004 http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/30-Clubs/2065-the-moral-highlands

 

As a matter of interest what was the average attendances of the two clubs in highland league? Article above suggests 2000 average in 03/04. Now we average 3500. That suggests that crowd figures have risen since merger and rise up the leagues.

Now lets assume the merger never happened and Caledonian were granted entry to league. Would that team be in top league now with 3500 average crowds or would it be languishing with Montrose and East Stirlingshire with less than 500 averages.

The history of both clubs will not be forgotten nor will the history making of the current club but without the two there probably wouldn't be a current club in its current position.

In the latter days in the Highland League, Thistle's and Caley's typical combined attendance might have been in the ballpark of 600. In an era when a Scottish Cup tie against the likes of St Johnstone or Kilmarnock was considered a rare novelty, that could rise 10 fold thanks to the presence of a correspondingly large number of glory hunters who attended Thistle and Caley games once in a blue moon so played no effective part in the clubs' support.

I would also agree that in Division 1 in 03-04 it was about 2000, as it had tended to be for much of that period in D1. Move another rung up the ladder and indeed you do now have around 3500 which is around a 5-6 fold increase alongside the rise from the Highland League to the top half of the Premiership over the period that the pro-refusenik lobby bemoans so much damage having been done. I find it interesting that the linked article suggested that progress up the leagues had been slower than expected, given the universal ridicule attracted by Dougie McGilvray's "Off The Ball" statement that ICT would reach the SPL within 10 years - ie by 2004 - whch it did.

As for the "prawn sandwich" type references in other recent posts, the old chestnut about journalists not paying to get into football matches really is getting very tired and weary. The reality is that many of the organisations for which journalists at football matches work pay a lot of money for broadcasting rights etc. Similarly what some fans like to dismiss as the "prawn sandwich brigade" in corporate hospitality also pay for this service.

The main effect of important incomes like this is that they actually subsidise the season tickets of supporters since the lunatic economics of football are such that gate recepits do not come close to meeting running costs of football clubs.