Under UEFA law, a first offence for discrimination by fans would be partial closure of the stadium where fans had been found to been discriminatory. A second offence would be full closure and a 50,000€ fine.

Points deductions would also be a possible sanction.

It seems the SFA will fall into line and have cited discriminatory, racist, or sectarian behaviour from fans.

Regan was quoted as saying, "Essentially, the resolution is about asking the members: 'what do you want for the future atmosphere inside our grounds?'"

How would this affect clubs like ICT?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22844614

Edited June 11, 201312 yr by Kirishima

Suppose it depends on what is termed to be racist and that could land us in trouble when we play the travelling people.

Have to say when I read about this did think about the g...o thing and us.

Discriminatory: prejudicial and/or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category.

This is just one interpretation. But yes, I feel both ICT and RC alike will see a change in both clubs' tolerance.

Entering into very dangerous territory whereby the football associations are trying to the job that should be getting taken care of by the law.  I'd also imagine that unless there's a conviction in the courts then they, SFA/UEFA, would be treading on thin ice by branding any club/individual "racist" or whatever by enforcing the regulations.

 

As with all of these half assed attempts at dealing with problems of racism, sectarianism etc. it will fall to those at the coal front to enforce it and in an attempt to pay lip service to the legislation they will go after easy/soft targets whilst the real trouble makers continue to do as they please.

 

It should not impact on ICT or Ross C*unty in any way shape or form as what passes between fans of both clubs is banter with no evidence to suggest or back up a case for discrimination.

Entering into very dangerous territory whereby the football associations are trying to the job that should be getting taken care of by the law.  I'd also imagine that unless there's a conviction in the courts then they, SFA/UEFA, would be treading on thin ice by branding any club/individual "racist" or whatever by enforcing the regulations.

 

As with all of these half assed attempts at dealing with problems of racism, sectarianism etc. it will fall to those at the coal front to enforce it and in an attempt to pay lip service to the legislation they will go after easy/soft targets whilst the real trouble makers continue to do as they please.

 

It should not impact on ICT or Ross C*unty in any way shape or form as what passes between fans of both clubs is banter with no evidence to suggest or back up a case for discrimination.

Spot on Donald! Not for the first time I have to say that I am completely bemused at the range of sanctions which are possible against football clubs and fans for "offences" in this neck of the woods while the Orange Order - an organisation which was founded and exists for the purpose of being anti-Catholic - can strut its bigoted stuff around streets of Scotland more or less as it likes.

Here we seem to have UEFA following in the footsteps of the Scottish Executive and focusing its attention on the wrong people.

So why were we specifically requested not to use the word "gypsy" at Tinkerville games this season ?

And this is the issue. Who decides? I have had some absolutely outrageous discriminatory things said to me using the usual stereotypes of Scots/Highlanders ...but by friends. It's banter and I enjoy the humour. If a stranger says it with malicious intent, I can have them charged. So what will happen? Will one eejit on either side of the bridge get all Daily Mail and report stuff. Will smartphones capture fans and they end up in the Castle? Will people be charged?

CaleyD, I agree totally, but often the law is an ass... My biggest fear is that someone ends up with a record over this. To be clear, we are talking about the age-old banter between rivals, not racist bigotry or sectarianism which isn't an issue at ICT or RC, and is a completely different thread entirely.

Those that should be hit hardest by such inititives are those the authorities are too scared to punish. Why should football be any different from other walks of life, afterall this is someones place of employment so why should any descriminatory behaviour be tollerated, its not in the employers of everyone on here.

So why were we specifically requested not to use the word "gypsy" at Tinkerville games this season ?

We were specifically requested not to use that term because we had been warned by the Police that they would prosecute if they could prove that any of our fans had used it. They would have charged people under the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act (Scotland) 2012 and it was sensible to warn people of the possible consequences of this. As luck would have it, The Police were putting their faith in an increasingly discredited and in its self quite discriminatory bit of Legislation that has survived no real legal challenge to it. It has failed and it merely reinforces the fact that the majority of chants at football matches are banter and need to be taken this way - a fact recognised by football fans but sadly not by the po faced PC Legislators and their overly keen enforcers.

 

The SFA slant is put forward by Stewart Reagan, who stresses that "Scotland does not have huge issues in this area" but then says "But we still have that unacceptable behaviour. It still goes on. We know that clubs try their very best, particularly with sectarian issues, but when you've got 10,000 people behaving in a way they shouldn't, then you ask what more can be done". If you are talking about 10K + suppports continually being offensive in a sectarian way, there are only two Clubs in Scotland that have that kind of support and "history", and both reside in Glasgow. I suspect that in joining the po faced, Mr Regan's rules will be just as legally dubious as the Law, but I would say that if there need to be rules governing Celtic (especially the green brigade) and Rangers and their "assembly", then have the cojones to come out and say it. Leave the rest of us to banter that does not harm to anyone, because sectarianism just doesn't interest us.

I doubt the SFA will ever sanction either of the ugly sisters using this legislation.  Instead they are more likely to pick on a smaller team such as us or the tinks and use the legislation against some trivial/out of context/jumped up claim to gain face in the eyes of UEFA.

 

We've waited decades for the SFA to do anything meaningful regarding the twins of evil and the bigotry and baggage they bring to the game, this new legislation is not going to suddenly see the SFA grow a pair of balls and do anything of substance to address the issue.

I wholly appreciate the need to advise the fans of the perils but that basically suggests that a Caley fan calling a County fan a "Gypo" is discriminatory. I presume that there was a formal complaint from an in-bred claiming that the terminology was offensive. And when you have large gatherings of offenders the best thing to do is to take photties and allow clubs to show their support by putting banning orders on the captured needs - and making clubs play behind closed doors. Have to admit that it is all pathetic but I really can see us suffering - and what about insults at Dundee or Ayrshire derbies - what words will constitute discrimination there. Perhaps the powers to be should circulate a dictionary of abusive words or terms not to be used at football matches. For instance I feckin object to being called a Jeggie !!

Agreed, I think the whole PC thing is out of control, we have basically become, or told to become, super sensitive, and it knows no bounds. Again, I reiterate that what is unacceptable, is unacceptable. And that doesn't apply to ICT fans. But in the race to stamp out sectarianism and racism, which I think all agree is not ok, it will go beyond what is called for. It is not simply about ICT, or football, but about bureaucrats throwing the baby out with the bath water. is there a defence? as IHE said, who will stand up to a test case where what we may perceive is banter, as I think we have all either been on the receiving end or the dishing out end, will end up as something far more serious. I fear what IHE has alluded to, will be part of it. The age of rival banter is over.

Cases are failing on what seems like an almost daily basis and the Offensive Behaviour at Football legislation is already proving to be as ineffective as many predicted it would be in terms of securing a conviction.  Courts are finding that they can't even convict those who have clearly acted with discriminatory intent because the legislation is such a load of nonsense.

 

The point I always try to make though...you don't need to be convicted by the court for something like this to screw you up, especially if you are younger fan.  Cases can take months to come to court and you try getting a job, university place, apprenticeship, visa to holiday in some countries, clear disclosure check etc with such a charge hanging over your head!!!

 

It's a situation which shouldn't exist, but it does and people wishing to take a stand (in whatever form they choose) should not do so blindly or with total disregard for the potential consequences and effects that it might have....guilt or not.

Indeed CaleyD, that is the biggest worry. Young uns, who may see it is a bit of a larf, could end up with dire consequences for something that, until quite recently, and that existed for many years without issue, is now an offence. The mind boggles.

Thankfully the SFA AGM has binned this proposal.

I wouldn't want to condone singing pro IRA songs anywhere, never mind at our ground but I had to feel sorry for the young lad who was unsuccessfully prosecuted last season for just that. The guy had sung the same song without challenge for years, but his real mistake was to wear a white tee shirt and be visible enough to single out to Police Officers who the Sherrif labelled "unreliable" in some of their evidence. The fans post trial comments that it had been "the worst year of his life" rang true. Don's as right as the Dundee Sherrif who reckoned the Legislation "mince". It's simply there to further demonise footie fans of all hues and it does need to be challenged - but only if you know what you are getting in to and are prepared to take on that fight. Instead of mourning that the age of banter is past,or getting into bother, write to your MSP and tell them - forcibly- that they have got this one wrong. Who knows, then it might change.

Discriminatory: prejudicial and/or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category.

This is just one interpretation. But yes, I feel both ICT and RC alike will see a change in both clubs' tolerance.

The fact is, and probably the reason for this being binned, that the above interpretation would be the one seen by the courts if the SFA were challenged. We have banter with people from across the bridge. We call them Gypsy knowing full well that they are not. They call is the Tinks of the dump knowing the same thing. Therefore there can be no actual or percieved membership so no racism. The law that the police try to threaten fans with would also be thrown out of court for the very same reasons.

 

I'm all for anything that stops sectarianism, including the removal of certain banners and flags from Stadia and the banning of the singing of blatant hate songs. I'm also for anything that prosecutes and punishes the perpetrators of such and the punishment of those who use monkey chants etc towards black players. The trouble there is that its very difficult to pinpoint the perpetrator unless he or she is shopped by those around. Much easier to stem banter.

 

In light of us signing another Northern Ireland born player can I take this opportunity to point out that the red hand flag is the flag of the Unionist and not the flag of Northern Ireland as one or two of our fans appear to think. The recognised, though not official, flag of Northern Ireland is red saltire on white background.

Why don't we put up a banner at the next derby - "We promise not to call you Gypos if you promise not to call us Tinks".

Surely that would be welcomed as we will all just be stating where we stand on this and wish to be in full compliance of the law.

In light of us signing another Northern Ireland born player can I take this opportunity to point out that the red hand flag is the flag of the Unionist and not the flag of Northern Ireland as one or two of our fans appear to think. The recognised, though not official, flag of Northern Ireland is red saltire on white background.

I never actually knew that! It puts some things into perspective for me now, in a different context. Helpful to know.

In light of us signing another Northern Ireland born player can I take this opportunity to point out that the red hand flag is the flag of the Unionist and not the flag of Northern Ireland as one or two of our fans appear to think. The recognised, though not official, flag of Northern Ireland is red saltire on white background.

I never actually knew that! It puts some things into perspective for me now, in a different context. Helpful to know.

 

Not strictly true ..... Northern Ireland has had no officially sanctioned flag since 1972, and since 1973 only the union flag (union jack) is permitted, by law, to be flown on (national) government buildings. (see attachment)

 

 

 

 

The Ulster banner was the official flag from 53-72 but ceased to have status when parliament was dissolved in 72. While it is true to say that it is contentious, given that it is still used by loyalists and flown above some local authority buildings where the council is controlled by loyalists (as the flag law does not cover local councils), it is also used to represent Northern Ireland in sports such as football (look at fifa.com) and the commonwealth games where a distinction between home nations is required.

 

The St Patrick's Saltire has no official status although it is the Northern Irish component of the Union Flag. It tends to be viewed as a cross-community symbol with less political baggage than the Ulster Banner, Irish Tricolour, or Union Flags. It is one of two flags authorised by the Church of Ireland to be flown on buildings, and also forms the basis of the Northern Irish police badge. It is also approved for use in Orange Walks !!!!

snpc-04474.pdf