Just reading the recent comments on the Robbo thread, so felt we need a positive alternative title!!!

I'm sure he will stay, hopefully on a longer deal than he is on just now.

Good question

Quote

However, if his budget was cut to the extent we've been told it was....then what have we been spending the money on? Where's all the investment listed above been, well, invested?

CaleyD being wondering that myself for a while what all the spend has been done since Caley got put down a league.

3 minutes ago, Blair said:

Good question

CaleyD being wondering that myself for a while what all the spend has been done since Caley got put down a league.

You might want to ask that before you invest your millions ?

17 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

With the parachute payment, money from Celtics euro success, the £450k* additional investment (that we know of) and rent waiver the current regime have had circa £1 Million extra to use....which is on a par with what was invested to make the promotion push last time.

There are factors which hindered Robbo at the start of the season...lower league, short time to bring in players, even being a little rusty...and that is a symptom of what came before.  However, if his budget was cut to the extent we've been told it was....then what have we been spending the money on? Where's all the investment listed above been, well, invested?

*The lions share of which was provided by the "previous regime".

My impression from previous comments on here was that ICT were running at a deficit even in the year that we won the Cup (circa 500k was mentioned, although the 2016 Statement from the club suggested the deficit was  £21,391!), also what has been the cost of John Hughes pay-off (was that cleared in one year?), and that of Richie Foran's (I assume he didn't leave with nothing). What has been the reduction in TV money, and what has been the reduction in gate receipts this year?

Edited April 30, 20188 yr by Eagle4Caley

8 minutes ago, Eagle4Caley said:

My impression from previous comments on here was that ICT were running at a deficit even in the year that we won the Cup (circa 500k was mentioned, although the 2016 Statement from the club suggested the deficit was  £21,391!), also what has been the cost of John Hughes pay-off (was that cleared in one year?), and that of Richie Foran's (I assume he didn't leave with nothing). What has been the reduction in TV money, and what has been the reduction in gate receipts this year?

That bit's nuts as we made a profit of £250k in 2015, so did we suddenly go on a player salary spending spree?

To be honest if I invest the club I want to be at least director in since many of things about the club makes no sense to me it's kind like playing very complex Chinese Whispers game since whenever I hear most of the new information I am never any wiser.  I think I can answer where the  £250K went to my knowledge of it both Yogi and Forum wasted all the money on expensive players  for why Caley got demoted but to me if I was director of the club I would had sacked Yogi before these problems happen and for Richie I would not fully sack him what I would do with him is see if he could be trained as a coach instead .  I heard from my reliable sources that Forum used to if you like to attack players if they lose a match through his bad management skills.

1 hour ago, CaleyD said:

With the parachute payment, money from Celtics euro success, the £450k* additional investment (that we know of) and rent waiver the current regime have had circa £1 Million extra to use....which is on a par with what was invested to make the promotion push last time.

There are factors which hindered Robbo at the start of the season...lower league, short time to bring in players, even being a little rusty...and that is a symptom of what came before.  However, if his budget was cut to the extent we've been told it was....then what have we been spending the money on? Where's all the investment listed above been, well, invested?

*The lions share of which was provided by the "previous regime".

You don't seem to have mentioned their inherited obligation to deal with the £422,000 loss for the year to last May, run up by the "previous regime", and with the £1.2M reduction in revenue for 2017-18, which was a consequence of the relegation achieved under the "previous regime" by a manager given a very long contract by the "previous regime", which also sanctioned the profligate wage structures implemented by the managers the "previous regime" appointed.

I trust that everyone is clear that the "lion's share" of the £450,000 bail out - some £250,000 - was provided by David Sutherland.

I believe that - against hugely adverse circumstances - a pretty good job has pretty consistently been done by successive administrations to achieve what has been since 1994. This has been made all the more difficult because the consequences of any error made have been hugely magnified by the highly marginal circumstances which have constrained successive boards. I would therefore prefer to concentrate on the way ahead rather than create recriminations.

However, if you are as intent as it appears on constantly attacking the current board - who, we note, no longer avail themselves of your services at the club - then it regrettably becomes necessary to achieve balance and realism. That must be done even if it involves my reluctantly highlighting the less glorious moments of the "previous regime" - whose Cheerleader In Chief and Proclaimer Of Infallibility you were for some time.

At a time when the club and the team are showing signs of recovery after a traumatic summer of 2017, I find your attempts to sow unhelpful division and dissent extremely unfortunate and to the detriment of the club - especially since these are arguably motivated by the personal agenda of a former club functionary.

I note that you now appear also to be installing yourself as Cheerleader In Chief for CJT. There is maybe something of an irony there, given that in another thread CJT's objectives are quoted - by you -  as including: ".... to be the vehicle through which a healthy, balanced and constructive relationship between the Club and its supporters and the communities it serves is encouraged and developed."

Edited April 30, 20188 yr by Charles Bannerman

1 hour ago, Eagle4Caley said:

My impression from previous comments on here was that ICT were running at a deficit even in the year that we won the Cup (circa 500k was mentioned, although the 2016 Statement from the club suggested the deficit was  £21,391!), also what has been the cost of John Hughes pay-off (was that cleared in one year?), and that of Richie Foran's (I assume he didn't leave with nothing). What has been the reduction in TV money, and what has been the reduction in gate receipts this year?

 

1 hour ago, Eagle4Caley said:

That bit's nuts as we made a profit of £250k in 2015, so did we suddenly go on a player salary spending spree?

It's a fairly well accepted fact that the club has worked with "margin of hope" equating to around £150k to £250k for some time....the hope being that something happens (cup run, player sale, investment, asset sale) would fill the gap as and when needed.

I would be very surprised if the pay-off period for either Yogi or Richie was any more than a year as the norm for all but the top teams is to have a dismount period (as opposed to a fixed pay-off sum) of 6, 8 or 12 months....regardless of term left on contract.

TV Money is tied in with league money (for the most part) and the estimated hit on that was said to be around £1.2 Million.  Attendance is down by about 40% this season and there appears to have been a sizeable drop in season ticket holders.  Drop in attendance can be partly attributable to the drop in visitor numbers and the last time it happened we only dropped about 20%...but actually had an increase in season ticket holder numbers.  Flipping those numbers into cash value is a bit of a shot in the dark as we don't know the breakdown on ticket categories, but I'd be comfortable putting the cost somewhere in the region of £300k.

By my reckoning, the additional investment would have at least cancelled out the drop in league/TV money.  You can draw your own conclusions as to why attendance has dropped so much more this time and why we've seen a sizeable drop in season ticket holders.

Shot in the dark on cuts to player wages across the board.....if we were 70% turnover on player/coach costs and there was a 20% cut across the board on relegation, then that's between £500k and £600k saving without the need to do anything else.  that offsets the drop in gate receipts, and some.

Overall, we should be about "cost neutral" (probably better than that) without having had to make any other cuts.....but we've been told that players had to go and cheaper players brought in etc. because of a need to save money.  If that's the case, then as I asked already, why?  where has the money been spent instead?  We're either not being told where the money is getting spent or we're being told that cuts were made that weren't.  There's a third option...and that is we're sitting on a mountain of cash...but that's highly unlikely given the Chairman's statement about a need for money to secure the club's immediate future.

Given how good season 2014/15 was then it's not surprising that the club would have shown a bit of surplus, but the costs of Europe etc would have swallowed a large chunk of that and shown in the following years accounts.  There may have been some increased player costs, but I doubt very much it was a "spree".

Just wondering CaleyD if I ever do become a director or something like that at Caley would you ever be interested in being a director yourself again since I would be very keen to work with you at Caley?

7 minutes ago, Blair said:

Just wondering CaleyD if I ever do become a director or something like that at Caley would you ever be interested in being a director yourself again since I would be very keen to work with you at Caley?

Just a director?!  To be honest, with your £££££££ being ploughed into the club, you should be made the club's life emperor! 

1 hour ago, Charles Bannerman said:

You don't seem to have mentioned the £422,000 loss for the year to last May, run up by the "previous regime", and the need to cope with the £1.2M reduction in revenue for 2017-18, which was a consequence of the relegation achieved under the "previous regime" by a manager given a very long contract by the "previous regime", which also sanctioned the profligate wage structures implemented by the managers the "previous regime" appointed.

I trust that everyone is clear that the "lion's share" of the £450,000 bail out - some £250,000 - was provided by David Sutherland.

I believe that - against hugely adverse circumstances - a pretty good job has pretty consistently been done by successive administrations to achieve what has been since 1994. This has been made all the more difficult because the consequences of any error made have been hugely magnified by the highly marginal circumstances which have constrained successive boards. I would therefore prefer to concentrate on the way ahead rather than create recriminations.

However, if you are as intent as it appears on constantly attacking the current board - who, we note, no longer avail themselves of your services at the club - then it regrettably becomes necessary to achieve balance. That must be done even if it involves my reluctantly highlighting the less glorious moments of the "previous regime" - whose Cheerleader In Chief and Proclaimer Of Infallibility you were for some time.

At a time when the club and the team are showing signs of recovery after a traumatic summer of 2017, I find your attempts to sow unhelpful division and dissent extremely unfortunate and to the detriment of the club - especially since these are arguably motivated by the personal agenda of a former club functionary.

I note that you now appear also to be installing yourself as Cheerleader In Chief for CJT. There is maybe something of an irony there, given that elsewhere CJT's objectives are quoted - by you -  as including: ".... to be the vehicle through which a healthy, balanced and constructive relationship between the Club and its supporters and the communities it serves is encouraged and developed."

You are correct Charles, I didn't mention the £422k.  It's a total Red Herring for two reasons....

1.  It is of zero relevance to the discussion in hand.  An operating loss does not equate to debt, so whilst the club may have lost money in the last financial year, that does not mean that there was a negative sum in the bank which needed to be met/cancelled out by money coming in for this financial year.  In fact, a quick look back through the accounts showed that cash in hand was about the 4th or 5th highest it had been throughout the clubs entire existence.  If we're pulling relevant figures from last years accounts, that is the only one and I would say it was way beyond expectation.

2.. As you know, having been sat in the same AGM as me, a large portion of that loss will be offset by accounting adjustments at the next year end...as confirmed by the account's auditors who didn't disagree when it was suggested the real loss should have been more in the region of £200k.

I wouldn't disagree with your comments about the relative successes achieved since day one...all things considered.  Time will tell on whether the current board can be included in that.  Pretty much every Chairman has (quite rightly) come under scrutiny from one or other of us at some point in time....other than the current Chairman who seems to be beyond any scrutineering on your part.  That is your choice and I'm not going to berate you or your character for taking that stance.

It was entirely my decision, despite requests to remain and comments the contrary, to remove my day to day services from the club.  Since then, however, I have stepped in to assist on several occasions.

Bringing it all back to the topic of "Robbo Must Stay".....none of what's going on in the above discussion/exchange on the club finances would suggest that he should do otherwise.  I just hope, as I have done with every manager, that he is allowed to succeed (or otherwise) by his own hand and that he doesn't have that hand unnecessarily tied behind his back.

There are a few personal battles going on in this - and other- threads from a number of users ..... so this is a shot across the bows to all of those who seek to defame or denigrate other posters as their primary focus. You will be removed from participation in these threads if you persist. Debate the topic, agree or disagree with the post, vehemently if you wish, but please do not let this degenerate into personal attacks. There is a fine line between banter and abuse and we have already spoken to a few people. If anyone wants to have a pissing contest there is a long trough urinal in the gents at the stadium .. that seems like a more appropriate place .. and might even drive up the attendance. 

Its going to be a really long summer if this carries on and I have too much to do with my own (soon to be) 5 year old and have no desire or time to try and watch over adults that want to behave as 5 year olds. 

   

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

There are a few personal battles going on in this - and other- threads from a number of users ..... so this is a shot across the bows to all of those who seek to defame or denigrate other posters as their primary focus. You will be removed from participation in these threads if you persist. Debate the topic, agree or disagree with the post, vehemently if you wish, but please do not let this degenerate into personal attacks. There is a fine line between banter and abuse and we have already spoken to a few people. If anyone wants to have a pissing contest there is a long trough urinal in the gents at the stadium .. that seems like a more appropriate place .. and might even drive up the attendance. 

Its going to be a really long summer if this carries on and I have too much to do with my own (soon to be) 5 year old and have no desire or time to try and watch over adults that want to behave as 5 year olds. 

   

As long as it is accepted that if there is a legitimate view (which in my case there is) that a series of posts is designed to undermine the current board, then that needs to be highlighted. So also does the coincidence in time of a sudden and dramatic U-turn in the viewpoint of the poster concerned and that poster ceasing to fulfil a role he previously held within the club. Indeed, I think it is essential that ICT supporters - and equally importantly, any potential investors - should understand the context in which a number of hostile and misleading posts have been made.

For instance, at a time when efforts continue to finalise the stadium transfer deal in order to attract money into the club, another thread which began simply as an unsupported rumour about an unspecified announcement was, by a single post, diverted into extremely unhelpful speculation about the club going into Administration.

I am not going to get drawn into a debate about the minutiae of what is or is not acceptable or what has prompted anyone to modify their views on any given subject. We are mostly adults here and should know when something crosses the line. All I will say is that when it does go over the line and becomes personal then it is unacceptable and will be dealt with accordingly. My post was not specifically aimed at you, as there are multiple pissing contests going on here over the last little while, but yes, your exchange is one of the things that prompted my post.

My only interest here is in protecting the site. Recent legal actions over the last couple of years - mainly related to Facebook and Twitter but also acknowledged to be relevant to Forums - has clarified that posters are ultimately responsible for their own content, and should an individual or group feel they have been wronged then their recourse in law is against the poster not the platform. However, having done this for the last 24 years I still regard what we were told all those years ago by the SportNetwork lawyers about our own 'duty of care' as it relates to the platform we provide and I/We always try to strike a balance between allowing all posts and removing content that is inappropriate. Contrary to popular belief we dont remove much (although we may move it) and we seldom ban anyone (mainly spammers who get through our registration process).   

4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

As long as it is accepted that if there is a legitimate view (which in my case there is) that a series of posts is designed to undermine the current board, then that needs to be highlighted. So also does the coincidence in time of a sudden and dramatic U-turn in the viewpoint of the poster concerned and that poster ceasing to fulfil a role he previously held within the club. Indeed, I think it is essential that ICT supporters - and equally importantly, any potential investors - should understand the context in which a number of hostile and misleading posts have been made.

For instance, at a time when efforts continue to finalise the stadium transfer deal in order to attract money into the club, another thread which began simply as an unsupported rumour about an unspecified announcement was, by a single post, diverted into extremely unhelpful speculation about the club going into Administration.

I don't think that Scotty's warning was conditional or excluded any posters even you.

When is the first pre-season game ? I bet if Robbo sees the title of this thread and then reads it he will undoubtedly be thinking

Blair is Dougal, right??

31 minutes ago, dougiedanger said:

Blair is Dougal, right??

Or IHE on the wind up? It was several years ago now, but remember the time he had everybody going for ages with what can only be called a masterpiece of deception?

Just wondering Charlie B if I ever do become a director or something like that at Caley would you ever be interested in being a director yourself again since I would be very keen to work with you at Caley? Also my Indian friend Vikas made me software to make all my sites GDPR compliant would you like me to give you free access to this ?

28 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Just wondering Charlie B if I ever do become a director or something like that at Caley would you ever be interested in being a director yourself again since I would be very keen to work with you at Caley? Also my Indian friend Vikas made me software to make all my sites GDPR compliant would you like me to give you free access to this ?

IHE... if you did become a director or something like that, they would have to fight me off in my unbridled desire to join you. I am sure, between us, we could swing a vote to have the price of Vodka in the Sports Bar reduced to 47p a nip - the cheapest now allowed by law. My Gambian friend Abdoulli does magic and would give the club free access to a spell which would shift the course of the aquifer.

(I'm still trying to remember that glorious wind-up of several years ago.)

Edited May 1, 20188 yr by Charles Bannerman

You mean by me being  Blair is Dougal, right that Political guy can't remember his name but it was funny when  show the  the debate on TV and I show the debate on TV of Blair vs Blair?

On 30/04/2018 at 11:52 PM, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

When is the first pre-season game ? I bet if Robbo sees the title of this thread and then reads it he will undoubtedly be thinking

Straight from the horse's mouth - Robbo doesn't read CTO.

4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Straight from the horse's mouth - Robbo doesn't read CTO.

Wasn't he actually ON the forum at one time, years ago?

4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Straight from the horse's mouth - Robbo doesn't read CTO.

Robbo probably sticks to Twitter, just to see who the latest signings are, courtesy of NorhStandRising...

4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Straight from the horse's mouth - Robbo doesn't read CTO.

of course he doesn't ... he has SK read it to him while another one of the team peels him grapes 

11 minutes ago, jingsmonty said:

Wasn't he actually ON the forum at one time, years ago?

allegedly. although he always maintained that it was DP who was the techie guy. 

Donald Park to leave the Scotland u19s coaching role, a reunion with his old pal perhaps? 

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/donald-park-to-step-down-as-coach-of-scotland-under-19s/?rid=13925