See on BBC news riccardo has been found guilty of beating up a woman in brimingham after her car hit his. Reading the details of his sustained assault on a female this is totally unacceptable behaviour from one of our players while he was in our employment. He is due to be sentenced on 4th december

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by MorayJaggie

Just seen this prior to your post...very disappointed in him. One of the players most of us were willing on recently but theres no excuse for behaviour like this and could easily end his career. Very sad 

Agree he turned a corner in his ability recently but has thrown it all away. I cannot support a person who has acted in this way. 

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by MorayJaggie

Terminate contract.  No question about it.

Just read the story. Sorry, but there appears no other option : 

Who else thinks there will now be a communication black out from club. They must have known about this since May.

Not acceptable behaviour at all. He has to go. I don't blame the club for not saying anything on this up to this point as he hadn't been found guilty of anything. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-46130398 

1 minute ago, Fraz said:

Not acceptable behaviour at all. He has to go. I don't blame the club for not saying anything on this up to this point as he hadn't been found guilty of anything. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-46130398 

Thanks for putting link in I couldn't get it to share into my original post.

Just shocking!  Lets hope Tremarco is fit for Saturday.

34 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

Who else thinks there will now be a communication black out from club. They must have known about this since May.

The club were 1000% correct not to say anything to this point. Its a legal and personnel matter concerning one of their employees. Even now they are limited in what they can and should say and I would not expect anything said until the sentencing date. There is no evidence to say when they became aware of things but certainly before this week I would guess ! 

Its my opinion - for what its worth - the player has to be suspended by the club until the sentencing date and any employment repercussions are then put in place.   

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

The club were 1000% correct not to say anything to this point. Its a legal and personnel matter concerning one of their employees. Even now they are limited in what they can and should say and I would not expect anything said until the sentencing date. There is no evidence to say when they became aware of things but certainly before this week I would guess ! 

Its my opinion - for what its worth - the player has to be suspended by the club until the sentencing date and any employment repercussions are then put in place.   

Totally agree with that, it has to be dealt with legally and above board. Sad thing is just as we start to see Calder as an integral part of the current side, we now need to face up to the realisation that, deservedly he may not be a part of it for much longer ?

A player that I really like and who has huge potential. However, like it or not, Professional footballers are role models even at our level.

I note that the offence, which is a shocking assault, was committed while an employee at our club.

With a heavy heart, I am of the view that he has to go. He may not have sunk as low as the disgraceful David Goodwillie but such conduct is not at all acceptable.

For me he's been found guilty and the club should be taking action now, I genuinely can't see any point in the club waiting to see the sentencing outcome.  

Incredibly disappointing news, and totally out the blue for me.

2 minutes ago, quizzer said:

For me he's been found guilty and the club should be taking action now, I genuinely can't see any point in the club waiting to see the sentencing outcome.  

Incredibly disappointing news, and totally out the blue for me.

I don't always agree with the current regime but I think that the club are right to wait until the sentencing before finalising their position.

However, having pled guilty to such conduct, I do think that he should be suspended in the meantime.

33 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The club were 1000% correct not to say anything to this point. Its a legal and personnel matter concerning one of their employees. Even now they are limited in what they can and should say and I would not expect anything said until the sentencing date. There is no evidence to say when they became aware of things but certainly before this week I would guess ! 

Its my opinion - for what its worth - the player has to be suspended by the club until the sentencing date and any employment repercussions are then put in place.   

I agree that they should have said nothing until court case but they should have been prepared for this outcome. One rule for players and another for fans? They should have had a pre prepared statement. They are quick enough to issue statements on fan behaviour.

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by MorayJaggie

15 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

I don't always agree with the current regime but I think that the club are right to wait until the sentencing before finalising their position.

However, having pled guilty to such conduct, I do think that he should be suspended in the meantime.

He peld not guilty and submitted a defence of self defence to which the cctv found to be a lie as it showed a sustained and unprovoked attack. Guilt has been proved sentencing is irrelevant. Hence there was a court case. Had he pled guilty there would have been no trial. Club need to act immediately.

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by MorayJaggie

I’m absolutely gutted by this news. He’s been terrific this season but a moment of utter madness has put his career in real jeopardy. It’s a huge blow to the club and to him personally, but one can’t imagine how terrifying it must have been for the young woman being attacked like that by an out of control young man. 

Personally I don’t think one moment of madness should end a promising career.  This is a very serious incident but other players have done worse and resumed careers.  I would agree that suspension until sentencing is an appropriate immediate course of action and then the club will need to decide what to do in the light of the sentencing decision. 

6 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

One rule for players and another for fans? They should have had a pre prepared statement. They are quick enough to condemn fans on little or no evidence or wrong doing?

Fans are not employees of the club and the club does not have to have regard to employment law when dealing with fans.

What s more, a fan would not be disciplined by the club in any way for a criminal offence wholly unconnected to the football. Your comparison is completely flawed.

11 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

I’m absolutely gutted by this news. He’s been terrific this season but a moment of utter madness has put his career in real jeopardy. It’s a huge blow to the club and to him personally, but one can’t imagine how terrifying it must have been for the young woman being attacked like that by an out of control young man. 

Personally I don’t think one moment of madness should end a promising career.  This is a very serious incident but other players have done worse and resumed careers.  I would agree that suspension until sentencing is an appropriate immediate course of action and then the club will need to decide what to do in the light of the sentencing decision. 

This was not a moment of madness. He knew the victim. He then drove to a car park got out of his car walked over to hers leaned through the window punched her several times stopped allowed her to get out then continued to assault her by kicking and hitting her with a shoe causing her to sustain lacerations, bruising and a fractured thumb. That is not a moment of madness he had ample time to consider what he was doing. To say other players have done worse and trying to condon an assault by a physically fit male on a female is not acceptable in my view. 

 

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by MorayJaggie

5 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

Fans are not employees of the club and the club does not have to have regard to employment law when dealing with fans.

What s more, a fan would not be disciplined by the club in any way for a criminal offence wholly unconnected to the football. Your comparison is completely flawed.

So no company has never come out and issued a statement when they have an employee in a public eye position. Hmmmmmm let me think of yes Ronaldo.

He's got to go. As well as he's done over the last few weeks we can't be seen as a club to condone this type of behaviour.  

I could perhaps have been more understanding if it was one hit in a moment of madness and in self defence. However, it's clear from the report that he's been found guilty of a sustained attack on a woman. Utterly unnacceptable and frankly scumbag behaviour.  

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by Hiro

23 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Personally I don’t think one moment of madness should end a promising career.  This is a very serious incident but other players have done worse and resumed careers. 

What has his ability or promise got to do with anything?

He has brutally attacked another person without provocation.  What sort of message does it send out if we as a club give any hint that such behaviour is acceptable?

This attitude that footballers should be afforded some kind of privilege and forgiveness beyond that which would be afforded to anyone else and that the better a player the more privilege the should  be afforded is bu11shit.

The club would have been aware he was in court today and if they weren't prepared for this outcome, then more fool them.

If they believe in the community values they like to wax lyrical about then this will be the easiest decision our CEO has ever had to make and Calder will already have had his marching orders.

22 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

This was not a moment of madness. He knew the victim. He then drove to a car park got out of his car walked over to hers leaned through the window punched her several times stopped allowed her to get out then continued to assault her by kicking and hitting her with a shoe causing her to sustain lacerations, bruising and a fractured thumb. That is not a moment of madness he had ample time to consider what he was doing. To say other players have done worse and trying to condom an assault by a physically fit male on a female is not acceptable in my view. 

 

There is absolutely nothing in what I wrote which in any way condones what Calder did.  What we shouldn't do, however, is rush to judgements when we don't know all the facts.  From the report, the facts are clearly not as clear cut as your summary would suggest.  In fact, the report paints a rather bizarre picture and there are clearly gaps which may have a bearing and which presumably will be known to the courts and will be taken into account in sentencing.

Yes he knew the victim.  He dropped her off at her car.  She then, for some reason or by accident drove her car into his.  The report doesn't say whether this incident happened at the point where he dropped her off or at some later point after they had both driven off.  The report says that following the collision they agreed to drive to a pub car park.  That means that immediately after the collision they must have had a discussion.  One can imagine he was pretty annoyed  but there is no suggestion that he was in any way threatening to her at that point, indeed, had he been, then why would she have agreed to drive to a pub car park?  There is no information in the report which says whether they got out of the cars at the point of collision - perhaps they spoke on their mobiles and agreed to drive to the car park and look at any damage there.  

At the car park Calder punched her through her car window.  When she got out of the car he is reported to have hit her with a shoe / thrown a shoe at her.  What shoe?  Did he stop to take off one of his own shoes to hit her?  Or perhaps when he went to talk to her, she tried to hit him with her shoe?  After all, many women will remove high heeled shoes for driving.  He claimed he was acting in self defence so presumably he told the court what he was claiming he was defending himself from, but that is not reported.  Did she try to hit him with the shoe which perhaps he took off her and later threw back at her. Did she say something to provoke him?  What caused him to lose the plot?  We simply don't know the answers to any of these questions.

Let's be clear.  None of the unknowns I have outlined can possibly excuse Calder's behaviour, but they may help explain it and may influence the sentencing decision.  I would expect the club will have far more  detail about the incident than we will ever know.  I hope the club will make a statement tomorrow but I would also expect them not to rush to making any decisions other than a suspension until after sentencing.

For someone who states Calder's behaviour cannot be exused, you sure are making a lot of excuses.

The CPS 

43 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

There is absolutely nothing in what I wrote which in any way condones what Calder did.  What we shouldn't do, however, is rush to judgements when we don't know all the facts.  From the report, the facts are clearly not as clear cut as your summary would suggest.  In fact, the report paints a rather bizarre picture and there are clearly gaps which may have a bearing and which presumably will be known to the courts and will be taken into account in sentencing.

Yes he knew the victim.  He dropped her off at her car.  She then, for some reason or by accident drove her car into his.  The report doesn't say whether this incident happened at the point where he dropped her off or at some later point after they had both driven off.  The report says that following the collision they agreed to drive to a pub car park.  That means that immediately after the collision they must have had a discussion.  One can imagine he was pretty annoyed  but there is no suggestion that he was in any way threatening to her at that point, indeed, had he been, then why would she have agreed to drive to a pub car park?  There is no information in the report which says whether they got out of the cars at the point of collision - perhaps they spoke on their mobiles and agreed to drive to the car park and look at any damage there.  

At the car park Calder punched her through her car window.  When she got out of the car he is reported to have hit her with a shoe / thrown a shoe at her.  What shoe?  Did he stop to take off one of his own shoes to hit her?  Or perhaps when he went to talk to her, she tried to hit him with her shoe?  After all, many women will remove high heeled shoes for driving.  He claimed he was acting in self defence so presumably he told the court what he was claiming he was defending himself from, but that is not reported.  Did she try to hit him with the shoe which perhaps he took off her and later threw back at her. Did she say something to provoke him?  What caused him to lose the plot?  We simply don't know the answers to any of these questions.

Let's be clear.  None of the unknowns I have outlined can possibly excuse Calder's behaviour, but they may help explain it and may influence the sentencing decision.  I would expect the club will have far more  detail about the incident than we will ever know.  I hope the club will make a statement tomorrow but I would also expect them not to rush to making any decisions other than a suspension until after sentencing.

The CPS prosecutor stated the high quality CCTV showed he was not acting in self defence and that is was a sustained assault. The report says they drove to a pub car park it does not mention any conversation to agree they drive there. Irrespective of anything said it does not justify the level of violence he committed towards a female. Why are you trying to find an excuse for his horrendous behaviour? Nothing can justify a male beating a female to the point she has sustained fractures, lacerations and bruising in this case. It doesn't matter what shoe he used, he hit her with it. She would have been completley justified if she had tried to hit him with it after being punched several times through her car window. The club will have the same information we do as it has been presented in evidence in court it is available for any member of the public to access.

Edited November 7, 20187 yr by MorayJaggie

1 hour ago, Buster said:

What has his ability or promise got to do with anything?

He has brutally attacked another person without provocation.  What sort of message does it send out if we as a club give any hint that such behaviour is acceptable?

This attitude that footballers should be afforded some kind of privilege and forgiveness beyond that which would be afforded to anyone else and that the better a player the more privilege the should  be afforded is bu11shit.

The club would have been aware he was in court today and if they weren't prepared for this outcome, then more fool them.

If they believe in the community values they like to wax lyrical about then this will be the easiest decision our CEO has ever had to make and Calder will already have had his marching orders.

Absolutely nobody is giving any hint that Calder's behaviour is acceptable.  Absolutely nobody is saying  that footballers should be treated more favourably than anyone else or that better players should be treated more favourably still.  What some people are clearly saying is that footballers should be treated far less favourably than the rest of us.

Your prejudice on this matter is clear when you say the attack was without provocation.  How do you know that?  Were you in the courtroom and did you hear Calder admit there was no provocation?  Of course, provocation does not excuse his actions, but it may explain why he flipped.

You talk of community values, but one important value in a community is to support the rehabilitation of offenders.  The courts will punish him as part of the due legal process but you seem to feel he should also be punished by the club and the community and thrown out of his chosen career.  He needs to accept the punishment of the courts, but what purpose does it then serve to punish him for the rest of his life?  I would hope and expect that Calder is utterly ashamed at what he has done and is now full of remorse.  The responsibility of a caring society is to support people who have offended and try and ensure they don't offend again.  People who are given a second chance are often the very ones who then become very active themselves in supporting community projects, often atoning for their own wrongs many times over.

That is why I don't think the club should make any rushed decisions here. I don't think it is in anybody's interests to kick Calder out Professional Football.  It may well be that it is best if he plies his trade elsewhere, but that is a decision for the club in the light of all the facts.